70% of of US PhD graduates are foreign born

[khon]

Yup. There's really very little point in getting a PHD in an engineering field.

Depends on the field, and the kind of job you plan on getting. I'm an engineer with a PhD, and I don't regret that decision at all. My current job (I work for ASML) pretty much required a PhD, so there was most certainly a point in getting one.

Of course I did my PhD in Denmark, where it only takes 3 years and the pay is pretty decent (~$50k per year), so it's somewhat different than doing it in the US.

 

[jackace]

The problem with PhDs in this country is the cost and time commitment is VERY high. Many of the foreigners are getting money from their countries, but those of us who live here in the US have no option but to pile on tons of debt. Then looking at the job prospects for most PhDs and you aren't talking about a whole lot more than a masters or many cases a bachelors degree with a few years of experience. For most American's it's a pretty easy choice to not bother with a PhD.

 

[CanOWorms]

Y'all need to look at winners of Nobels in physics, chemistry, & medicine, or Fields or Adel metal in Math.... Dominated by US and still is to this day. Thing is a small fraction of that 30% is really smart despite absolute numbers being lower not to mention no need for so many in the first place. To many go into education hoping it's their union card into easy life and invariably end up disappointed having neither the brains or connection to gainful employment in the field. Happens everywhere too.

Much more practical education would be in areas there are shortages like medicine.

But will it be dominated by the US in the future? Likely not. The problem is that too many in the US are influenced by Western culture, which prefers philosophy and English over science and engineering. Even many of our domestic-born Engineers/scientists are from minority groups from Eastern cultures where science and engineering is emphasized.

Many in the US want us to stay so-called Westernized and cry over diversity. Look at Western Europe. They're known more for soaps and perfumes than anything else. That's what many Americans want to reduce us to.

 

[werepossum]

Hey, foreign-born college students don't have the baggage of twelve or thirteen years of unionized American public schooling to overcome!

Not to mention, if I was from Bahrain or Botswana or Bulgaria, damned straight I'd stay in school in America as long as humanly possible before I had to go back!

 

[Infohawk]

The problem is that too many in the US are influenced by Western culture, which prefers philosophy and English over science and engineering.

Modern science IS western culture, doofus. All the modern scientific contributions up until recently have been from Europe and the US. The reason Asia is rising now in that department is because they adopted western values. And if you're talking about more Asian children going into math and science that is only true because of their cookie-cutter do what mom and dad tell me to do culture. You know, the same kind of mentality that loves the caste system like you do. Hopefully one day you will try to assimilate into your host country.

 

[wuliheron]

But will it be dominated by the US in the future? Likely not. The problem is that too many in the US are influenced by Western culture, which prefers philosophy and English over science and engineering. Even many of our domestic-born Engineers/scientists are from minority groups from Eastern cultures where science and engineering is emphasized.

Many in the US want us to stay so-called Westernized and cry over diversity. Look at Western Europe. They're known more for soaps and perfumes than anything else. That's what many Americans want to reduce us to.

What a load of crap. Americans are studying business where the jobs are, while congress makes it easy for universities and corporations to hire foreigners for more technical jobs or outsource them altogether. It's the same thing that the Romans did when they found it cheaper to use educated Greeks as slaves. Eventually the whole top heavy system led to half of Rome being on the dole, the other half being slaves, and tiny minority owning pretty much everything.

 

[trenchfoot]

That Chinese car video is awesome. I like how they tried to keep just the back two seats inside the no crumple zone. The elders in the back are kept safer....

Well, that crash test on the Chinese car was done all wrong. In China, all cars are driven in reverse, because they did exhaustive studies on American Demolition Derbies and the Chinese realized that all Derby winners always drove their cars backwards to crash into their competiton.:biggrin:

 

[CanOWorms]

Modern science IS western culture, doofus. All the modern scientific contributions up until recently have been from Europe and the US.

Nope. Maybe 100 years ago when people were being tortured by Western civilization for pure greed because then the only people doing science were Western countries. But for the last 50 years or so when Western colonialism was defeated by half-naked civilians, things have changed.

The reason Asia is rising now in that department is because they adopted western values.

It seems that their values are different than Western values. For example, they aren't as obsessed about Plato as we are. They seem to emphasize science and engineering.

This is where a true US model of multiculturalism shines. We can have people from all different backgrounds and be sufficient in many fields rather than just soaps or robots.

And if you're talking about more Asian children going into math and science that is only true because of their cookie-cutter do what mom and dad tell me to do culture.

They can argue that we have a culture of ADD children wanting to go to college to study things you should be doing for entertainment instead.

You know, the same kind of mentality that loves the caste system like you do. Hopefully one day you will try to assimilate into your host country.

Funny coming from a white supremacist

 

[werepossum]

Well, that crash test on the Chinese car was done all wrong. In China, all cars are driven in reverse, because they did exhaustive studies on American Demolition Derbies and the Chinese realized that all Derby winners always drove their cars backwards to crash into their competiton.:biggrin:

 

[Infohawk]

Nope. Maybe 100 years ago when people were being tortured by Western civilization for pure greed because then the only people doing science were Western countries. But for the last 50 years or so when Western colonialism was defeated by half-naked civilians, things have changed.

You're a lot like one of those Christian fundamentalists who fights against Darwin (except you hate him because he's English). You'd probably like to see all the European names removed from the many important equations and theories westerners have discovered... Too bad for you most other immigrants and people from around the world don't have such an inferiority complex like you do.

 

[CanOWorms]

What a load of crap. Americans are studying business where the jobs are, while congress makes it easy for universities and corporations to hire foreigners for more technical jobs or outsource them altogether. It's the same thing that the Romans did when they found it cheaper to use educated Greeks as slaves. Eventually the whole top heavy system led to half of Rome being on the dole, the other half being slaves, and tiny minority owning pretty much everything.

I don't understand your argument. You say that what I posted was a load of crap, but then your post basically supports what I said.

 

[CanOWorms]

You're a lot like one of those Christian fundamentalists who fights against Darwin (except you hate him because he's English). You'd probably like to see all the European names removed from the many important equations and theories westerners have discovered... Too bad for you most other immigrants and people from around the world don't have such an inferiority complex like you do.

You're a lot like one of those Neo-Nazi fundamentalists who fights against historical reality. You're trying to erase all non-European names from scientific history because supposedly the Aryans created everything. Too bad for you most other immigrants and people from around the world don't have such an inferior complex like you do.

What do you do for a living? I think that most engineers and scientists can think of lots of concepts advanced by non-Westerners.

 

[Infohawk]

You're a lot like one of those Neo-Nazi fundamentalists who fights against historical reality. You're trying to erase all non-European names from scientific history because supposedly the Aryans created everything. Too bad for you most other immigrants and people from around the world don't have such an inferior complex like you do.

What do you do for a living? I think that most engineers and scientists can think of lots of concepts advanced by non-Westerners.

Uh oh I must have gotten to you because now you're just doing the COW parrot dance that you do when you've lost an argument. Sorry not interested in playing that game right now kiddo.

 

[CanOWorms]

Uh oh I must have gotten to you because now you're just doing the COW parrot dance that you do when you've lost an argument. Sorry not interested in playing that game right now kiddo.

I don't think that your white supremacist brethren are going to be happy that you toward coward against an enemy. Aren't you supposed to try to emphasize your intellectual superiority? Tell us how making moonshine in Appalachia is an example of scientific supremacy.

 

[Infohawk]

... to be happy that you toward coward against an enemy.

Wow that's some potent pidgin you have there... Or maybe you're just flustered? It's funny that you take someone else's argument and then plug in words. No doubt you probably do science/engineering the same way: no thinking just plugging in numbers into other people's equations.

Anyway no more troll food for you in this thread. You have to try to learn to debate like a civilized person.

 

[CanOWorms]

Wow that's some potent pidgin you have there... Or maybe you're just flustered? It's funny that you take someone else's argument and then plug in words. No doubt you probably do science/engineering the same way: no thinking just plugging in numbers into other people's equations.

I'm sure you have the intellectual capability to be able to understand a typo. So, why don't you respond instead of running away?

I'm not a strict engineer by profession anymore because our society (especially because of Western culture) frowns down upon the technical disciplines.

Anyway no more troll food for you in this thread. You have to try to learn to debate like a civilized person.

Unfortunately, I'm not white. I am not considered to be a civilized person by you.

 

[wuliheron]

I don't understand your argument. You say that what I posted was a load of crap, but then your post basically supports what I said.

My argument is that money is driving these trends rather then people or the decline of western science.

 

[Brigandier]

I have met a lot of foreign born people in my pursuit of engineering education. They are good folks, and have damn good heads on their shoulders, the only problem is that they lack the directive force, and most groups I've been in rely on some domineering American personality to succeed.

 

[CanOWorms]

My argument is that money is driving these trends rather then people or the decline of western science.

And you don't think that the allocation of money is related to Western culture?

 

[Infohawk]

I have met a lot of foreign born people in my pursuit of engineering education. They are good folks, and have damn good heads on their shoulders, the only problem is that they lack the directive force, and most groups I've been in rely on some domineering American personality to succeed.

It makes sense. A lot of cultures prize following directions obediently. Interestingly that helps people get off to a good start in math and science early on but many discoveries have come from people thinking outside of the box.

 

[Freshgeardude]

we need a major immigration overhaul.

its too complicated for people to become full citizens and that is driving illegal immigration up.


make it simple.


also there should be faster ways of becoming citizens as your level of education goes up.

ie: harder for unskilled, easy for highly skilled.

promotes the immigrants that want to work hard for an education come. keeps out unskilled.

at least that would be the plan. there needs to be border enforcement

 

[CanOWorms]

It makes sense. A lot of cultures prize following directions obediently. Interestingly that helps people get off to a good start in math and science early on but many discoveries have come from people thinking outside of the box.

That makes sense coming from you. I'm sure that you have a lot of experience trying out new condiments on hamburgers.

 

[GTaudiophile]

I know a few of them who are struggling to remain in this country due to visa complications.

Sad state of affairs and just another sign of a fvcked up country.

 

[Magusigne]

Just finished my Ph.D in Biophysics;p.

Here's the reason that nobody will tell you.

A Graduate Student can be abused quite alot more if you can threaten to revoke their visa. And they can and have done that while I was a student.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

According to Spencer the Chinese are savages because they don't use a phonetic alphabet only.