70% of of US PhD graduates are foreign born

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CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
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Yeah, fuck having a well rounded education.

European education is not well rounded. It's defective and morally reprehensible. The American education is well-rounded, but the Europeanization is destroying it. Soon we'll be like France where 50% of our students are majoring in philosophy.
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
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That's the problem with many of the cookie-cutter / choose a profession mommy wants me to have types. Many of our great discoveries were from extremely versatile "renaissance" men. Things have become more specialized lately but people like Oppenheimer and Einstein were still interested in the non-scientific world about them.

Einstein was an immigrant and both were minorities outside of the mainstream European culture. Both would have been eradicated by European/Western culture.

Both were also not popular with white supremacist theology given their Jewish backgrounds. Does your Grand Wizard know that you're talking about these guys?
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
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European education is not well rounded. It's defective and morally reprehensible. The American education is well-rounded, but the Europeanization is destroying it. Soon we'll be like France where 50% of our students are majoring in philosophy.

Indeed. I heard that some twisted fucks in Austraia and Germany advocate abstinence-only education and it causes Germany to have the highest teen pregnancy rate of any first world nation :\
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
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Einstein was an immigrant and both were minorities outside of the mainstream European culture. Both would have been eradicated by European/Western culture.

Both were also not popular with white supremacist theology given their Jewish backgrounds. Does your Grand Wizard know that you're talking about these guys?

I guess I'll give you your troll snack for the day. European Jews are a part of Western civilization. It's bigoted of you to suggest that they are not. (Although it's probably because you refuse to recognize that the US is part of western civilization.)

And it doesn't really matter what percent of a population are philosophy majors. Successful scientists do it because it interests them. Just like a lot of western art and entertainment (that is exported around the world) comes from westerners being able to express themselves and taking interest in things like literature and philosophy. Let's not forget that a lot of philosophers were instrumental in bringing about the western democratic ideals and free markets that have brought COW so much. It's the kind of "be an engineer or doctor to make your parents happy" that helped make India and China stagnate until recently. There can never be too many new ideas, but there can be too many unquestioning lab drones.
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
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Don't knock masturbation. It's nature's form of birth control and I'd hate to see what the future would be like without it.

By this logic, then, arguing about irrelevancies such as who first discovered calculus (the answer is Archimedes) is akin to blowing your seminal intellectual thought on a crusty sock.

I think you over-value the intellectual contributions that those who ascribe to a phenomenological supposition tend to make.

all science is therefore Western
No. The fact that the Chinese society is inferior when it comes to advancing science because of it's collectivism is why science is western.

Which is too bad, because the focus on the individual farmer and his highly analytical rice-patty in agriculture has lead to a superior mind-set for those Chinese smart enough to leave their home culture and adopt western individualism.
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
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I guess I'll give you your troll snack for the day. European Jews are a part of Western civilization. It's bigoted of you to suggest that they are not. (Although it's probably because you refuse to recognize that the US is part of western civilization.)

Western civilization tried to eradicate European Jews throughout centuries. If you were around back then, you would likely be calling for their demise because of assimilation issues, etc. But look what the two you said did - they are great scientists. Bringing them up does not support your argument. It supports mine.

The US is also not a Western country. It's a hybrid.

And it doesn't really matter what percent of a population are philosophy majors.
Yes, it does. The US does so well because we have that word you dread so much: diversity.

Successful scientists do it because it interests them. Just like a lot of western art and entertainment (that is exported around the world) comes from westerners being able to express themselves and taking interest in things like literature and philosophy.
Really? Europe, the bulk of the so-called Western world, has very little cultural exports nowadays. Lots of Asian countries are much more popular culturally nowadays. The UK is pretty much the only European country that fits your description.

It also seems that their main type of expression is hatred.

Let's not forget that a lot of philosophers were instrumental in bringing about the western democratic ideals and free markets that have brought COW so much.
Sure, but let's not forget that those ideals were also shaped by people outside the Western world. And critically, the West did not invent democracy. In fact, the West/Europe have historically tried to usurp democracy.

Now, if you want to say that the West created Cannibalistic Dictatorships, then I would agree with you.

It's the kind of "be an engineer or doctor to make your parents happy" that helped make India and China stagnate until recently. There can never be too many new ideas, but there can be too many unquestioning lab drones.
This is why we're going to decline. People like to think "Oh, we're the creative ones, it's ok, it's a good excuse!" But are we really creative in terms of science anymore? We can call other people lab drones, they'll call us ADD children.
 
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Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
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Western civilization tried to eradicate European Jews throughout centuries. If you were around back then, you would likely be calling for their demise because of assimilation issues, etc. But look what the two you said did - they are great scientists. Bringing them up does not support your argument. It supports mine.

Historically, segments of the European population also tried to kill scientists. At the end of the day, science was accepted in Europe and flourished. You can cherry-pick any bad trait you want and act like it's the dominant trait of Western civilization but that doesn't mean it's true.

Anyway, that's all your food for now. Maybe if you had had a more well-rounded education you would understand that just saying the opposite of what I say with no arguments doesn't really convince anyone of anything.
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
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Historically, segments of the European population also tried to kill scientists. At the end of the day, science was accepted in Europe and flourished. You can cherry-pick any bad trait you want and act like it's the dominant trait of Western civilization but that doesn't mean it's true.

Interesting... you didn't respond to my other comments. I suppose you concede on those points.

Historically, Europe has been very anti-science. Scientists have been oppressed for centuries, either because of the Church, bigotry, or other social issues. Even today, Europe tends to be very anti-science. A good example is their isolated stance on genetically modified food science.

Anyway, that's all your food for now. Maybe if you had had a more well-rounded education you would understand that just saying the opposite of what I say with no arguments doesn't really convince anyone of anything.
I don't think that the person who claims that all science is Western because an equation is named after a Greek guy should make any comments on education or poor arguments.
 

Baasha

Golden Member
Jan 4, 2010
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Nobody hides Indian and Chinese contributions to mathematics. Stop acting like that's some secret knowledge that is denied by westerners. Sorry but that does not change the fact that modern science and the scientific method was invented in Europe and was propelled forward by western individualism, which is why names are so often attached to equations and theories.

Indians and Chinese didn't just "contribute" you ingrate, they made seminal discoveries and inventions. That is my point. If anything, Europeans merely expanded on already formulated principles and ideas and codified them. That does NOT make them the proponents of those principles.

Asians discovered, Europeans expanded on it. Quite simple, but you're too dense to put two and two together.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
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Indians and Chinese didn't just "contribute" you ingrate, they made seminal discoveries and inventions. That is my point. If anything, Europeans merely expanded on already formulated principles and ideas and codified them. That does NOT make them the proponents of those principles.

Asians discovered, Europeans expanded on it. Quite simple, but you're too dense to put two and two together.

So what already-formulated principle do the Navier-Stokes equations codify?
 

Baasha

Golden Member
Jan 4, 2010
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And if you're talking about more Asian children going into math and science that is only true because of their cookie-cutter do what mom and dad tell me to do culture. Y

Wow.. dude.. you have serious fucking issues.. serious issues..

You are basically saying that the only reason Asian kids do well in school or succeed later in life is because of this "cookie-cutter" attitude? You are unbelievably naive, ignorant, and racist.

The sad part is, as I mentioned in another thread a while back, is that Asian kids in the US do better than whites in reading (English) as well! Now that's a reason to bow your head in shame.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
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Wow.. dude.. you have serious fucking issues.. serious issues..

You are basically saying that the only reason Asian kids do well in school or succeed later in life is because of this "cookie-cutter" attitude? You are unbelievably naive, ignorant, and racist.

The sad part is, as I mentioned in another thread a while back, is that Asian kids in the US do better than whites in reading (English) as well! Now that's a reason to bow your head in shame.

Actually it has nothing to do with race. It has to do with culture. You're the one who was saying Europeans descended from scum. ;)
 

Baasha

Golden Member
Jan 4, 2010
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So what already-formulated principle do the Navier-Stokes equations codify?

Such equations, and every principle in science and math, are founded on the numeral system. That was invented by Asians. Geometry, Trigonometry, astronomy, among many other fields were the forte of Indian mathematicians.

In fact, here's a proof for the thievery of the west: Pythagorean Theorem isn't from Pythagoras, it's from the Baudhayana Sulba Sutra, from India. Again, not only do westerners attach their names to everything as if they own it, they do it to discoveries and inventions they have never made!
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
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Such equations, and every principle in science and math, are founded on the numeral system. That was invented by Asians. Geometry, Trigonometry, astronomy, among many other fields were the forte of Indian mathematicians.

I didn't say "such equations" idiot. I specifically identified an equation. It "codifies" a specific natural relationship. Get back to me when you can identify the Indian who first identified that relationship
 

Baasha

Golden Member
Jan 4, 2010
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I didn't say "such equations" idiot. I specifically identified an equation. It "codifies" a specific natural relationship. Get back to me when you can identify the Indian who first identified that relationship

Stupid untouchable, didn't I say that the numeral system was invented by the Indians? The idiotic example you gave proves my point that many people from around the world expanded on the fundamentals of math and science, which were mostly, if not all, Asian in origin.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
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Stupid untouchable, didn't I say that the numeral system was invented by the Indians? The idiotic example you gave proves my point that many people from around the world expanded on the fundamentals of math and science, which were mostly, if not all, Asian in origin.

You're not answering the question. I didn't ask what numeral system their equation uses. I asked which Indian first identified the natural relationships they are describing. I predict you're going to keep repeating your same irrelevant answer though.
 

Baasha

Golden Member
Jan 4, 2010
1,989
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You're not answering the question. I didn't ask what numeral system their equation uses. I asked which Indian first identified the natural relationships they are describing. I predict you're going to keep repeating your same irrelevant answer though.

you're too stupid to see that the basis of math and science include discoveries made my Asians, not Europeans. Thus, your puerile question is irrelevant and undeserving of any answer.
 

Carmen813

Diamond Member
May 18, 2007
3,189
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Yeah, I wouldn't call the US a 'Western' culture either, I'm just saying that you're probably going to confuse a lot of people since most people just say that it comprises a 'Western' culture.

Interesting point about the euro-supremacists like InfoHawk. I agree that people like him will probably never integrate into American culture. This is something that I've been noticing for a while - many Americans here who have generational roots in this country have either un-integrated themselves from American society or were never integrated into American society to begin with. It's very troubling. I wonder if this is an issue that mental therapy can help fix.

Any mental health practitioner who did what you are suggesting would likely lose their license for unethical practice.
 

nonlnear

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2008
2,497
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Not a fan of history huh? The origins are not unimportant to the extent we value math and science. Certain environments are more conducive to discoveries than others. In ancient times the first agricultural societies (like in China and India) lead to many discoveries. In the past few hundred years we've seen that individual freedom and free markets help immensely.
History is great. Forum pissing contests talking in circles, not so much.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
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I have met a lot of foreign born people in my pursuit of engineering education. They are good folks, and have damn good heads on their shoulders, the only problem is that they lack the directive force, and most groups I've been in rely on some domineering American personality to succeed.

So anecdotal evidence is the law of the land now? foreign born or US born Asians are about 6% of US population or ~18 Millions. How many did you get to meet to fullfil your "scientific" therory?

Let see. Companies such as Yahoo, Zippo, Tagged, Monoprice... just to name a few were found/co found by Asians.

One more thing, there is a little well know website that was found by another Asian.....it is called..........AnandTech...<gasping in disbelieve>.

Yup. Look like whities domineering American are required to succeed as you stated.....Not!!!

<<---undergrad and grad US college degrees plus own company (all of that on my own will and power) and foreign born. Maybe I need a to hire a whitie or two to make it big, eh?
 
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piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
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This is because companies prefer to go after h1b visas and then hire lower paid foreign workers. Therefore there is no company hiring American PHD's. With not enough demand for americans with a phd, there is no one interested in going to school for a job that will not be there. Our own government allows all these h1b visas. It is the government that is the problem. Whenever the US Government tries to solve problems, they just make things worse.

Maybe the US Govt should pull all funding for universities that over pay and overcharge students thousands of dollars every year for a poor education. People in the USA cant afford to go to college.
 
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