7.9 earthquake in China

[Lemon law]

Last I heard, the death toll is now up to 12,000 and it could go higher. As these cities rebuild, the question is will proper rebuilding codes be followed? Nor is the danger past, aftershocks of even greater magnitude are possible.

Once things lock back into place, seismic stresses relieved, that immediate area should be relatively stable for quite a while.

But in terms of the Chinese government, that is an experiment in progress. For the first time in 500 years, China is looking outward and transforming itself at an unprecedented rate. And this quake is just another test as it rushes headlong into the future. What has occurred in the last 30 years is amazing, what social transitions that occur in the next 30 years may be anyones guess.

 

[MadRat]

China in contrast to Myanmar is being responsible in their response. So far it sounds like FEMA could learn a thing or two from this...

 

[Lemon law]

China has a massive army, and unlike ours, its not stretched thin with foreign adventures. Make no mistake, had we had reserve units in the vicinity of Katrina fully equipped, the Katrina response would not have been so shockingly bad. But sadly, those reserve units and the needed equipment were already deployed to Iraq as GWB&co. continues to wage a war on the cheap. At least we know what the priorities are with GWB.

 

[piasabird]

Luckily in the Earthquake zone there is dry land. Dragging Heavy equipment over a mountain pass is hard but not as hard as dragging it through a flooded wasteland when the bridges are out. I am not saying the earthquake is better than a flood, it is just different and presents different problems. Katrina was a mess and all but it is cooperation at the local level that makes disaster recovery work. The chinese probably did not sit around and wait for a convoy of army troops from Bejing.

Maybe in the USA the buildings would be built to a better standard. Still that was a rather dangerous quake. But 9,000 people dead leads one to wonder if it is just shoddy building practices which killed their people.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
China has a massive army, and unlike ours, its not stretched thin with foreign adventures. Make no mistake, had we had reserve units in the vicinity of Katrina fully equipped, the Katrina response would not have been so shockingly bad. But sadly, those reserve units and the needed equipment were already deployed to Iraq as GWB&co. continues to wage a war on the cheap. At least we know what the priorities are with GWB.

And what would those units do? Fight the receding waters with bullets?

Comparing an earth quake and Katrina responses is pure idiocy. One is in a small geographic location. The other covered an area the size of the state of Minnesota.

In case you didnt know each state has its own national guard units. The govenor has to activate them. That gov in Louisiana was as worthless as tits on a bull. So while we had to deal with a huge land area we also had levels of bueracracy that added to the mess.

 

[Lemon law]

And the Louisiana is supposed to activate Guard units that are sitting in Iraq at the time. Thats why FEMA is supposed to have contingency plans in place so things get done. They had many days notice that Katrina was coming, but Brownie was an idiot who fiddled that time away. Granted the various State official were also unprepared and incompetent, but Katrina
required some competence that was not to be found anywhere in homeland security. Personally, I place much of the blame on Chertoff.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
And the Louisiana is supposed to activate Guard units that are sitting in Iraq at the time. Thats why FEMA is supposed to have contingency plans in place so things get done. They had many days notice that Katrina was coming, but Brownie was an idiot who fiddled that time away. Granted the various State official were also unprepared and incompetent, but Katrina
required some competence that was not to be found anywhere in homeland security. Personally, I place much of the blame on Chertoff.

They had units right at home, who told you 100% of Louisiana's national guard units were in Iraq? Do you have any idea the grand scale of staging supplies and moving resources into Katrina? It wasnt perfect but they had reliable supplies and relief within days. Imagine tomorrow the entire state of MN is a disaster zone. How long do you think it would take to reach everybody within this state?

If you think it could be done in 24 hours you are smoking something mad and I want some

 

[miniMUNCH]

7.9 is intense... but most structures in CA were built, or retrofitted at some point, to withstand a quake well into the 8's. I think the San Francisco earthquake was estimated to be in the 7.8 to 8.0 range with some estimates as high as 8.3 or so.

Still... I wouldn't want to be in a 7.9 ever.

 

[Jetster]

there are reports that China is seeking help from outside, even itself is throwing in all it got into the affected area with such massive resources, because the earthquake has damaged much more than government's worst anticipation. many areas are high up in the mountainous regions, landslides have blocked, destroyed all roads connected to them. and bad rainy weather prevent helicopters and paratroopers from going in, and even then they need heavy machinery, and those simply cant climb mountains.
still, it's impressive to see the whole thing, from the government's fast and efficient response, the prime minster was plane to the area within 2 hours of the event, to people's response, which they're hurt, hungry, wet and scared of aftershocks could come after them any minutes, yet they're largely calm, no looting, no rioting, not easy thing to achieve with such massive population.
it also shows that you should never take chances with mother nature, seismic reports going back as far as past hundreds years show the area has never experienced any major earthquake, so no doubt building codes have cheaped out, and suddenly people are caught with their pants down.

 

[CottonRabbit]

Originally posted by: Genx87

And what would those units do? Fight the receding waters with bullets?

Comparing an earth quake and Katrina responses is pure idiocy. One is in a small geographic location. The other covered an area the size of the state of Minnesota.

In case you didnt know each state has its own national guard units. The govenor has to activate them. That gov in Louisiana was as worthless as tits on a bull. So while we had to deal with a huge land area we also had levels of bueracracy that added to the mess.

Use military vehicles to transport sand bags and other equipment? Use military manpower to deploy said equipment and rescue people? If a levee breaks in China they'll literally drive trucks into the flood to attempt to clog it. China is no stranger to floods nor earthquakes. Nearly every year they get floods that affect entire provinces.

One of the reason that I imagine that makes this earthquake so deadly is because Chinese buildings including homes and stores tend to be concrete high rises. An earthquake is far less forgiving to a concrete high rise than a wooden house or a supermarket built like a warehouse.

 

[dphantom]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
And the Louisiana is supposed to activate Guard units that are sitting in Iraq at the time. Thats why FEMA is supposed to have contingency plans in place so things get done. They had many days notice that Katrina was coming, but Brownie was an idiot who fiddled that time away. Granted the various State official were also unprepared and incompetent, but Katrina
required some competence that was not to be found anywhere in homeland security. Personally, I place much of the blame on Chertoff.

Not true at all. There were and are plenty of NG troops available. As for reservists and active duty, those are federal troops and can only be sent with approval of the governor. The same as federalizing the NG. The governor has to approve the transfer of authority.

Local officials are always key to a competent first response. FEMA and other federal agencies are second in line. I have no argument FEMA in this one specific case was incompetent and beleive Chertoff to be ultimately responsible. But FEMA in general is very good and has gotten much better since Katrina.

 

[Foxery]

Wow, I hit a nerve, bigtime.

Maybe my opinion of China's government is outdated or incomplete, but I regard it similarly to other communist states, most of which do not give a damn about their average citizen: Soviet Union (prior to 1989,) North Korea, Cuba. They have a reputation for spending time and money filming propoganda before feeding anyone.

Qianglong: Yes, the US has a very bad global reputation right now. Did you know that China does, too? Over here, it's viewed as a fascist state, and that is still considred a dirty word.

I apologize if I am out of line; unfortunately, my opinion is more common than you might think.

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: maddogchen

Originally posted by: sunzt
I do wonder how a disastrous quake such as this one would have been handled by the US gov if it was near a city such as Los Angeles or New York City. *shudder*

CA experienced a 7.9 but it was back in the 1800s
Not quite the same but CA did have a 7.3 in 2005 just outside of LA. 2 people died of heart attacks.

I don't remember a 7.3 in 2005 near LA.

 

[naddicott]

Originally posted by: glutenbergI don't remember a 7.3 in 2005 near LA.

He probably means the 5.5 quake in ridgecrest. Orders of magnitude less dangerous than a 7.9 (~15,000x less energy).

 

[maddogchen]

Originally posted by: naddicott

Originally posted by: glutenbergI don't remember a 7.3 in 2005 near LA.

He probably means the 5.5 quake in ridgecrest. Orders of magnitude less dangerous than a 7.9 (~15,000x less energy).

oh sorry, 1992. Text
I opened two links and mixed it up with this 7.2 earthquake off of N.Cal in 2005. Text

 

[LongCoolMother]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/...china.quake/index.html

new updates.

apparently the official death toll has now risen to 12,000 . As for US Aid, it looks like the Chinese government has accepted some help.

The Chinese government on Tuesday accepted a U.S. offer of $500,000 in relief aid, according to an official with the U.S. Agency for International Development. However, China has not asked for other disaster assistance.

there are some really heartbreaking photographs on some news sites (not CNN/major news outlets). not for the faint of heart From the looks of things, the concrete/brick structures were really just too deadly for earthquakes.

 

[Qianglong]

Originally posted by: LongCoolMother
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/...china.quake/index.html

new updates.

apparently the official death toll has now risen to 12,000 . As for US Aid, it looks like the Chinese government has accepted some help.

The Chinese government on Tuesday accepted a U.S. offer of $500,000 in relief aid, according to an official with the U.S. Agency for International Development. However, China has not asked for other disaster assistance.

there are some really heartbreaking photographs on some news sites (not CNN/major news outlets). not for the faint of heart From the looks of things, the concrete/brick structures were really just too deadly for earthquakes.

Thanks for the pics. This shows more that we should put politics aside and try to rescue as many of the trapped students as possible.

On another note, I am wondering if a building that is designed to withstand a 8.0 earthquake will actually do fine in a real 7.9 quake.

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: maddogchen

Originally posted by: naddicott

Originally posted by: glutenbergI don't remember a 7.3 in 2005 near LA.

He probably means the 5.5 quake in ridgecrest. Orders of magnitude less dangerous than a 7.9 (~15,000x less energy).

oh sorry, 1992. Text
I opened two links and mixed it up with this 7.2 earthquake off of N.Cal in 2005. Text

The 1992 quake was luckily way out in the middle of the desert or it could've been much worse.

 

[BoomerD]

The 89 Loma Prieta quake was a 6.9 and created quite a bit of havoc in the SF Bay area, but relatively few people were killed, and most of those were killed when the Cypress Freeway collapsed onto itself. (double-decker freeway) A 7.9, (10X stonger) would have caused quite a bit more damage, but would it have done the kind of damage seen in China? I don't think so, as our earthquake standards are much better, and our building inspectors far less corrupt.

 

[Thump553]

I very rarely say anything nice about Red China's government, but from all appearances they have done a first rate job in responding to this diaster. Kudos to them and godspeed.

Considering how fast buidlings have been going up there, odds are that a few corners have been cut in the construction. But knowing China, if that is established they will have the contractors/inspectors executed. Heck, here we have a tough time even firing the inspectors.

 

[ericlp]

Originally posted by: sirjonk
I have sympathy for those who died, but I really don't care.

Hmm, no, it doesn't make any more sense in this thread either.

God is on a roll in Asia lately. Dude is getting all old testament on them.

Please take your BULLSHIT religious rhetoric elsewhere ... I hope you live in California and may Satan cause a 10.5 on your stupid ass and send you to your grave.

There, hows that for stupid? C'mon, your man made up superstitions are not causing these earthquakes or any other natural disaster for that matter.


Grow up and use your brain please.

I've seen a lot of retarded posts here but this one really takes the cake.

 

[glutenberg]

Originally posted by: ericlp

Originally posted by: sirjonk
I have sympathy for those who died, but I really don't care.

Hmm, no, it doesn't make any more sense in this thread either.

God is on a roll in Asia lately. Dude is getting all old testament on them.

Please take your BULLSHIT religious rhetoric elsewhere ... I hope you live in California and may Satan cause a 10.5 on your stupid ass and send you to your grave.

There, hows that for stupid? C'mon, your man made up superstitions are not causing these earthquakes or any other natural disaster for that matter.


Grow up and use your brain please.

I've seen a lot of retarded posts here but this one really takes the cake.

I live in California.

 

[LongCoolMother]

Originally posted by: glutenberg

Originally posted by: ericlp

Originally posted by: sirjonk
I have sympathy for those who died, but I really don't care.

Hmm, no, it doesn't make any more sense in this thread either.

God is on a roll in Asia lately. Dude is getting all old testament on them.

Please take your BULLSHIT religious rhetoric elsewhere ... I hope you live in California and may Satan cause a 10.5 on your stupid ass and send you to your grave.

There, hows that for stupid? C'mon, your man made up superstitions are not causing these earthquakes or any other natural disaster for that matter.


Grow up and use your brain please.

I've seen a lot of retarded posts here but this one really takes the cake.

I live in California.

me too. i wonder what would happen if we had a 20.5 earthquake on the richter scale. man, that would give new meaning and credibility to the common catchphrase "shakin' cali" scary, but I don't want to move.

 

[Lemon law]

I heard a few interesting tidbits on the news. They compared the the length of the rupture to a Maine to Arizona distance and mentioned the 12,000 figure as basically confirmed dead already. Because many locations are not yet reached, the end death toll may be many times higher. I did key on the fact that in an uplift region, the quake occurred in Rock at least 10 kilometers deep, that should put it in very strong igneous rock capable of generating very strong earthquakes with widespread damage.

ghenenberg is a 100% right, even if we think we are safe, there are few places on earth that are safe from destructive earth quakes when we consider 50,000 year time scales. There by the grace of God go you and I. The earth knows only forces, only we can have human compassion.

 

[trmiv]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
The 89 Loma Prieta quake was a 6.9 and created quite a bit of havoc in the SF Bay area, but relatively few people were killed, and most of those were killed when the Cypress Freeway collapsed onto itself. (double-decker freeway) A 7.9, (10X stonger) would have caused quite a bit more damage, but would it have done the kind of damage seen in China? I don't think so, as our earthquake standards are much better, and our building inspectors far less corrupt.

Yea, obviously a 7.9 would have been much worse than the 6.9 quake, but no where near the level of deaths from this China quake. I'm curious how much worse the Bay Bridge would have been though.

I vividly remember the Loma Prieta quake. I was about 13, laying on the floor of our living room getting ready to watch the World Series when the sucker hit. It was super strong, I can't imagine something 10x stronger.