Info 64MB V-Cache on 5XXX Zen3 Average +15% in Games

[Kedas]

Well we know now how they will bridge the long wait to Zen4 on AM5 Q4 2022.
Production start for V-cache is end this year so too early for Zen4 so this is certainly coming to AM4.
+15% Lisa said is "like an entire architectural generation"

 

[DrMrLordX]

If AMD indeed launches Zen 4 X3D to consumers this year already as was stated at FAD it will be very interesting how it will be positioned along the normal models, especially pricing wise.

It might be that Raphael-X (or whatever they call it) will be limited to an 8c SKU again.

 

[moinmoin]

It might be that Raphael-X (or whatever they call it) will be limited to an 8c SKU again.

If it's indeed launched this year already along the non-X3D SKUs that's very likely indeed I'd say. Genoa-X is going to take the quantity whereas Raphael-X will be one niche premium SKU. And price hierarchy wise I wouldn't be surprised if it's priced the same as the 12c or even 16c SKU without X3D. That's my take.

 

[biostud]

Maybe: $499 7800X and $599 7800X3D, depends on whether they continue to make 5800X3D, 5900X, 5950X or they simply make AM4 purely budget going forward with 5700X as top processor, once they launch AM5.

 

[Mopetar]

I don't know how much they'll continue making Zen 3 chips once Zen 4 launches. There's left over inventory they can use for a while, but using wafers for Zen 3 chiplets are wafers not being used for APUs, Zen 4 IO dies, and other 6nm products like the rumored Navi 33 GPU.

There's probably enough inventory in the channel at this point where AMD could start moving off of Zen 3 production as soon as they can use the wafer for anything else.

 

[jpiniero]

I don't know how much they'll continue making Zen 3 chips once Zen 4 launches. There's left over inventory they can use for a while, but using wafers for Zen 3 chiplets are wafers not being used for APUs, Zen 4 IO dies, and other 6nm products like the rumored Navi 33 GPU.

There's probably enough inventory in the channel at this point where AMD could start moving off of Zen 3 production as soon as they can use the wafer for anything else.

Milan is going to be sold for awhile.

 

[Mopetar]

Server is profitable enough to justify the opportunity cost over desktop parts, but that's different from using those chiplets for additional desktop parts. Doing so means they also need to keep making IO dies at GF for desktop parts and selling them at a discount unless we see another strict price increase with Zen 4.

 

[jpiniero]

Server is profitable enough to justify the opportunity cost over desktop parts, but that's different from using those chiplets for additional desktop parts. Doing so means they also need to keep making IO dies at GF for desktop parts and selling them at a discount unless we see another strict price increase with Zen 4.

There's going to be chips that will fail the binning for server for sure. Given the extended WSA, GloFo shouldn't be a problem either. Zen 4's def going to cost more.

Plus you have TR Pro. It'll get refreshed with Zen 4 at some point but surely that won't happen until next year.

 

[biostud]

As long as DDR5 is far more expensive than DDR4, AMD will need to keep AM4 alive, but they could stop X570 and the top processors, only keeping it alive as a budget option compared to AM5.

 

[LightningZ71]

X570 is the iod for zen3 desktop. No sense in stopping it now.

 

[jamescox]

Milan is going to be sold for awhile.

Yeah, the server market moves very slowly. Some companies standardize on a certain platform and continue to buy it for several years. They will need to keep on making Milan and Milan-x for quite a while. The uptake of Zen 4 in the server market will actually be quite slow due to the new platform. It will require completely new boards and memory. Possibly new chassis due to increased power draw to support some higher end SKUs. This may leave more initial production available for the desktop market, but initial parts will only be top of the line. There isn’t much point in releasing low end Zen 4 when the memory and motherboards will be too expensive to make it reasonable.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

As long as DDR5 is far more expensive than DDR4, AMD will need to keep AM4 alive, but they could stop X570 and the top processors, only keeping it alive as a budget option compared to AM5.

That sounds entirely plausible. Maybe keep the 5600(X)/5700(X) as top-end offerings, and the APUs.

 

[biostud]

X570 is the iod for zen3 desktop. No sense in stopping it now.

Once AM5 launches, the demand for high end AM4 boards will probably diminish rapidly, so they can just keep producing B550 and A520 boards, as the budget option.

 

[krumme]

Once AM5 launches, the demand for high end AM4 boards will probably diminish rapidly, so they can just keep producing B550 and A520 boards, as the budget option.

They are just cruising now and cheap ddr4 ram is just bonus. The zen3 io and cheap apus and chipset will take care of the remaining wsa for 12/14nm.
They can replace zen2 if they havnt already?
And use a few 5600 as lowend, and plenty of 3800 for the lowend mainstream, and 12 and 16 core models for that segment, while x3d model sweeps in the gaming upgraders from am4. While building up zen4 supply. Zen3 die on now cheaper 7nm is small at aprox what 80mm?, so they can earn high margins even on the lowend and old depreciated products. Its a dream. Its crazy so easy their situation is now.

 

[jamescox]

They are just cruising now and cheap ddr4 ram is just bonus. The zen3 io and cheap apus and chipset will take care of the remaining wsa for 12/14nm.
They can replace zen2 if they havnt already?
And use a few 5600 as lowend, and plenty of 3800 for the lowend mainstream, and 12 and 16 core models for that segment, while x3d model sweeps in the gaming upgraders from am4. While building up zen4 supply. Zen3 die on now cheaper 7nm is small at aprox what 80mm?, so they can earn high margins even on the lowend and old depreciated products. Its a dream. Its crazy so easy their situation is now.

The x670 chipset is made by ASMedia, not AMD, so it probably isn’t made at GF. Previous chipsets were basically cut down IO die from AMD. AMD will need to continue to make Milan IO die for a while, which will take a lot of silicon. Some people have been saying that GF will be making HBM for AMD. There appears to be some articles about HBM at GF a few years ago, so perhaps it is plausible. I didn’t think that their 12LP or whatever process would be dense enough for HBM memory. If they can make it, then they may be a cheap source for it. Some devices after Genoa will have a lot of HBM. If you add that to the requirements from going with significantly more HBM based GPUs, then they are going to need a massive increase in HBM production. If AMD uses silicon bridges, then they might be able to source those from GF also. They do not require a bleeding edge process for the level of connectivity required for things like HBM. HBM uses micro-solder ball tech with rather large pitch compared to SoIC. The bridges can probably be made at GF.

 

[Dave3000]

The x670 chipset is made by ASMedia, not AMD, so it probably isn’t made at GF. Previous chipsets were basically cut down IO die from AMD. AMD will need to continue to make Milan IO die for a while, which will take a lot of silicon. Some people have been saying that GF will be making HBM for AMD. There appears to be some articles about HBM at GF a few years ago, so perhaps it is plausible. I didn’t think that their 12LP or whatever process would be dense enough for HBM memory. If they can make it, then they may be a cheap source for it. Some devices after Genoa will have a lot of HBM. If you add that to the requirements from going with significantly more HBM based GPUs, then they are going to need a massive increase in HBM production. If AMD uses silicon bridges, then they might be able to source those from GF also. They do not require a bleeding edge process for the level of connectivity required for things like HBM. HBM uses micro-solder ball tech with rather large pitch compared to SoIC. The bridges can probably be made at GF.

Is ASMedia at least just as good as AMD in terms of reliability and compatibility for their chipsets? If someone is concerned about reliability and compatibility for a system that has an AMD CPU should they make sure that they get a genuine AMD chipset motherboard and not some other brand with rebadged as AMD if going for an AMD CPU? I have a B550 chipset motherboard and kind of regret not going to X570 chipset motherboard because I read in some forum that the B550 chipset is really just an ASMedia chipset rebadged as AMD. I'm not sure if there is any truth to that. I wonder if this could be the reason I have some USB weirdness with my motherboard with certain USB devices but not every USB device that I own.

 

[Thibsie]

Is ASMedia at least just as good as AMD in terms of reliability and compatibility for their chipsets? If someone is concerned about reliability and compatibility for an AMD chipset motherboard should they make sure that they get a genuine AMD chipset motherboard and not some other brand with rebadged as AMD if going for an AMD CPU? I have a B550 chipset motherboard and kind of regret not going to X570 chipset motherboard because I read in some forum that the B550 chipset is really just an ASMedia chipset rebadged as AMD. I wonder if this could be the reason I have some USB weirdness with my motherboard with certain USB devices but not every USB device that I own.

Intel & AMD both rebadged AsMedia chipsets afaik

 

[Dave3000]

Intel & AMD both rebadged AsMedia chipsets afaik

Even the Z690 and X570 chipsets?

 

[maddie]

Even the Z690 and X570 chipsets?

I think the reason AMD had the X570 was the delay in obtaining PCIe 4 chipsets from AsMedia, so they repurposed the I/O die as a chipset.

 

[lobz]

You don't just find that type in gaming BTW. I don't begrudge people who do what floats their boat. So long as they make their own money they're free to spend it however they see fit.

I just find it foolish. It's the same crowd who'd switch off textures in Quake2 matches 20-odd years ago just to chase those last few FPS. Didn't matter squat then, doesn't matter now. I can still hit them just fine.

You're entitled to your opinion, but saying it didn't matter squat is pure ignorance. Might as well say our eyes can't process over 30 fps etc. etc.
MANY game engines behave totally different scaling with fps, and that was especially true 15 and 20 years ago. Staying with your example: turning off textures (or quality) didn't mean just a few fps, and even then, it was worth chasing every single fps, because you could do jump sequences *a whole lot easier* with higher fps.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Even the Z690 and X570 chipsets?

I think B550 and A520 are ASMedia.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

You're entitled to your opinion, but saying it didn't matter squat is pure ignorance. Might as well say our eyes can't process over 30 fps etc. etc.
MANY game engines behave totally different scaling with fps, and that was especially true 15 and 20 years ago. Staying with your example: turning off textures (or quality) didn't mean just a few fps, and even then, it was worth chasing every single fps, because you could do jump sequences *a whole lot easier* with higher fps.

Why, thank you for illustrating my point so clearly.

 

[lobz]

Why, thank you for illustrating my point so clearly.

🤦🤦🤦

as always, ignorance is bliss 🙂

 

[Insert_Nickname]

🤦🤦🤦

as always, ignorance is bliss 🙂

Now, that's something we can agree on.

 

[Leeea]

Even the Z690 and X570 chipsets?

Apparently the x570 is just a repurposed Ryzen IO die.

x570 repurposed io die - Google Suche

Rumor has it, x570 only exists because Asmedia was delayed on getting PCIe4 out the door. These repurposed IO dies have 15 watt consumption and require a chipset fan.

Either way, this is rather rare. Assuming everything else is using Asmedia is likely to be correct, be it Intel or AMD. Z690 appears to be most commonly Asmedia.

The x570 is likely the only first party chipset available for a long time.

 

[Dave3000]

Apparently the x570 is just a repurposed Ryzen IO die.

x570 repurposed io die - Google Suche

Rumor has it, x570 only exists because Asmedia was delayed on getting PCIe4 out the door. These repurposed IO dies have 15 watt consumption and require a chipset fan.

Either way, this is rather rare. Assuming everything else is using Asmedia is likely to be correct, be it Intel or AMD. Z690 appears to be most commonly Asmedia.

The x570 is likely the only first party chipset available for a long time.

I was thinking about upgrading from a 5800X to a 5800X3D or a 5950X and also a new motherboard based on the X570S chipset. I mainly want a new motherboard because some USB devices act weird on my Asus B550-F (Wi-fi) motherboard despite having updated to the latest BIOS and chipset drivers. I use Windows 11 but also this happened in Windows 10. If I buy the CPU and motherboard at the same time at Microcenter, I will get a discount $20 off the motherboard. If buying a new motherboard won't solve this issue and it's just the devices and not the motherboard that's the issue, then I will just stick with my motherboard and just upgrade to one of these CPUs.