Info 64MB V-Cache on 5XXX Zen3 Average +15% in Games

[Kedas]

Well we know now how they will bridge the long wait to Zen4 on AM5 Q4 2022.
Production start for V-cache is end this year so too early for Zen4 so this is certainly coming to AM4.
+15% Lisa said is "like an entire architectural generation"

 

[Makaveli]

So 5800X3D is 2% faster than 12900KS? Yay?

If you can overclock that 12900KS by even 10% it will blow away the 5800X3D. Yes power consumption is a huge problem for Intel and overclocking would make it all that much worse, but given all the reviews I see for 1000 watt power supplies and the coming of 1500 watt power supplies, I thought hardcore gamers didn't care about details like electric bills 🙂

They may not care about electric bills but Heat getting dumped into the room can be an issue. a 12900k and a 3090 will drop a tremendous amount of heat into your room in extended sessions. That is the one thing I like about my current rig it doesn't heat up the room the computer is used in at all.

 

[JoeRambo]

Never probably. Raphael would be a better choice.

Idle power wastage of Ryzen desktop CPUs is just too high, Raphael makes way more sense. But then again there has been so many senseless DTR class laptops with ridiculous wattages, that 5800X3D would work wonders in one of them. Given how good it performs with horribad memory, it would be match made in heavens.

 

[biostud]

Idle power wastage of Ryzen desktop CPUs is just too high, Raphael makes way more sense. But then again there has been so many senseless DTR class laptops with ridiculous wattages, that 5800X3D would work wonders in one of them. Given how good it performs with horribad memory, it would be match made in heavens.

Especially if undervolting it, is something that can be applied widely.

 

[moinmoin]

When will Alienware put 5800X3D into a laptop?

Not Alienware, but Schenker did put a 3950X into a laptop with XMG APEX 15. I'd think a 5800X3D would fit fine in there as well (though I don't see any BIOS updates on their site).

 

[Insert_Nickname]

That is the one thing I like about my current rig it doesn't heat up the room the computer is used in at all.

My old i7-920 could lift room (not that large) temperature a couple of degrees C all by itself, but then it was overclocked. But even with the door open.

My newer rigs aren't that bad in comparison. I'd guess a 250W+ GPU would behave similarly.

 

[MadRat]

I'd be surprised if AMD didn't customize a 8000-series X3D chip for the laptop gaming market. May not make sense for casual laptops, but wouldn't be a terrible idea in the near term. What's the highest priced laptop CPU out there ATM?

 

[ondma]

They may not care about electric bills but Heat getting dumped into the room can be an issue. a 12900k and a 3090 will drop a tremendous amount of heat into your room in extended sessions. That is the one thing I like about my current rig it doesn't heat up the room the computer is used in at all.

The system may dump a lot of heat, but for gaming, the majority of it will come from the gpu. TDP for 3090 is 350 watts or more, while the cpu will probably use only 150 watts (or less) in gaming.

 

[Thibsie]

The system may dump a lot of heat, but for gaming, the majority of it will come from the gpu. TDP for 3090 is 350 watts or more, while the cpu will probably use only 150 watts (or less) in gaming.

Not that clear talking about ADL IMO

 

[Panino Manino]

I'd be surprised if AMD didn't customize a 8000-series X3D chip for the laptop gaming market. May not make sense for casual laptops, but wouldn't be a terrible idea in the near term. What's the highest priced laptop CPU out there ATM?

It seems to make perfect sense to put these 3D chips on notebooks, the amount of performance they can achieve with little power usage and heat just looks perfect. That undervolted 5800X3D could be put o a small ITX with a small cooler.
Only motive to not put these chips there is that AMD can't meet demand.

 

[Asterox]

Interesting sales figures for R7 5800X3D, 360 CPU-s sold vs R7 5800X 350 processors sold.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1518176540160315402

 

[maddie]

Interesting sales figures for R7 5800X3D, 360 CPU-s sold vs R7 5800X 350 processors sold.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1518176540160315402

Oh my, how far have we come. AMD leads in ASP and sales volume.

 

[Markfw]

Oh my, how far have we come. AMD leads in ASP and sales volume.

When you have a better product for quite a while, that happens. Even with Alder lake, I hear nothing but excuses. "Oh, so what if they use twice the power and heat, gamers don't care". And "Nobody uses these desktop chips for productivity". This list goes on. And servers ? Not even excuses, just "they are coming". And the wattage I see is insane.300-400 watts for servers ? How many of you have actually been in an enterprise data center ? Believe me, heat, power usage and AC to deal with it can make or break a data center.

 

[Mopetar]

And why would you do that for a slower CPU in gaming ?

It's about even between the KS and the X3D and game selection in in a small set of benchmarks can swing it a few percent in either direction. Even the K lines up evenly with the X3D in some reviews and while that still does use more power, it's not nearly the excessive amount that the KS does.

At this point I'd recommend the X3D for anyone making a new build specifically for either, but both CPUs have titles where they're leading the other by double digits. If someone is just getting it for Flight Simulator then it's obvious they should go with AMD because it wins by a lot in that title. If were a game that heavily favored Intel then there's a reason to recommend it as well.

Personally I'm just going to hold out for Zen 4. Even if it's not always as good as the X3D it'll be a new platform and by then GPUs should be even more reasonably priced.

 

[DrMrLordX]

And the wattage I see is insane.300-400 watts for servers ? How many of you have actually been in an enterprise data center ? Believe me, heat, power usage and AC to deal with it can make or break a data center.

Well let's be honest, power/socket is going up for both Intel and AMD in the server room. The question is: what do you get for all the extra power consumption? In cache-sensitive workloads, Milan-X offers a lot of bang/watt so to speak. It's difficult to compare it to Sapphire Rapids since availability is still so low that it hasn't been publicly benchmarked.

edit: this was in reply to Markfw, not nicalandia, not sure how that happened but I think the forum code bugged out.

 

[eek2121]

They may not care about electric bills but Heat getting dumped into the room can be an issue. a 12900k and a 3090 will drop a tremendous amount of heat into your room in extended sessions. That is the one thing I like about my current rig it doesn't heat up the room the computer is used in at all.

Can confirm. Had a 1950X in a bedroom sized office. The office would heat up in the summer-time to 95F. Had to run a portable AC unit to keep it cool. Note that the 12900K puts out MORE heat than the 1950X.

Idle power wastage of Ryzen desktop CPUs is just too high, Raphael makes way more sense. But then again there has been so many senseless DTR class laptops with ridiculous wattages, that 5800X3D would work wonders in one of them. Given how good it performs with horribad memory, it would be match made in heavens.

Not really. As long as you have your Windows power plan set up properly, Ryzen uses very little power at idle. Ryzen mobile chips actually have lower idle power than Intel chips.

 

[eek2121]

Well let's be honest, power/socket is going up for both Intel and AMD in the server room. The question is: what do you get for all the extra power consumption? In cache-sensitive workloads, Milan-X offers a lot of bang/watt so to speak. It's difficult to compare it to Sapphire Rapids since availability is still so low that it hasn't been publicly benchmarked.

To add to this, AMD is packing 96 cores (with Zen 4) at the same power (or less) as Sapphire Rapids if leaks are to be believed.

Intel's power issues are going to become even more of an issue as we move forward unless they focus on improving things.

 

[Markfw]

Well let's be honest, power/socket is going up for both Intel and AMD in the server room. The question is: what do you get for all the extra power consumption? In cache-sensitive workloads, Milan-X offers a lot of bang/watt so to speak. It's difficult to compare it to Sapphire Rapids since availability is still so low that it hasn't been publicly benchmarked.

I think your post messed up. Thats me you quoted. Post 3,137

 

[DrMrLordX]

I think your post messed up. Thats me you quoted. Post 3,137

Nah I quoted you quite deliberately. The point being, just because a single server CPU can pull 300W or more doesn't necessarily make it a bad CPU. If it has enough cores and/or does enough work through ILP then the expenditure could be worth it. Which is quite often the case with both Milan and Milan-X. Intel has already gone overboard with IceLake-SP: the 8380 already pulls 270W, and it's not even a match for older Rome CPUs with similar TDP. Sapphire Rapids would seem to be delivering more of the same. Or at least it would if anyone could actually buy one.

 

[Markfw]

Nah I quoted you quite deliberately. The point being, just because a single server CPU can pull 300W or more doesn't necessarily make it a bad CPU. If it has enough cores and/or does enough work through ILP then the expenditure could be worth it. Which is quite often the case with both Milan and Milan-X. Intel has already gone overboard with IceLake-SP: the 8380 already pulls 270W, and it's not even a match for older Rome CPUs with similar TDP. Sapphire Rapids would seem to be delivering more of the same. Or at least it would if anyone could actually buy one.

But your post says "nicalandia said: "

Anyway, its does not exactly matter the wattage, but 28 cores compared to 64 at the same wattage ? Or worse. I would have to go look it up, but Intel is offering half the cores with half the performance per core for the same TDP.

 

[DrMrLordX]

But your post says "nicalandia said: "

Oh I have no idea how that happened. I think the forum code bugged out.

 

[Markfw]

Oh I have no idea how that happened. I think the forum code bugged out.

I just wanted credit for the post. No matter what Intel says their servers can't touch Rome/Milan in performance OR efficiency. Genoa will probably be a massacre.

 

[eek2121]

But your post says "nicalandia said: "

Anyway, its does not exactly matter the wattage, but 28 cores compared to 64 at the same wattage ? Or worse. I would have to go look it up, but Intel is offering half the cores with half the performance per core for the same TDP.

@Markfw I think that is kind of the point. Intel can *attempt* to claim bragging rights on the desktop, however Genoa is shipping. No joke. Word "on the street" is that more Zen 4 chips have been shipped than Sapphire Rapids, albeit with far fewer customers.

I feel like a certain percentage of people here are trying to compare Milan or Ryzen 5000 to Intel Sapphire Rapids or Alder Lake and they are forgetting the big picture: They are comparing very old AMD chips (ignoring Milan-X, which already beats Intel current chips) vs. Intel current, and AMD is not only releasing a new chip soon, but they are also doing so on a node shrink, and they had two years to do it. The performance gains will be much larger from Zen 3 -> Zen 4 vs. Skylake to Alder Lake. To be clear, Intel 14+eXX < TSMC N7 -> Custom TSMC N5P. Intel has technically caught up with TSMC N7 DUV (we hope?). AMD's current mobile chips are on a better node, and desktop/server chips are on an even better one. Milan-X alone is an absolute headache for Intel. Genoa?

Shoot, under the right circumstances (ahem), one could argue the gains from Zen 2 -> Zen 3...ON THE SAME NODE...were larger than Skylake to Alder Lake.

 

[DrMrLordX]

They are comparing very old AMD chips (ignoring Milan-X, which already beats Intel current chips) vs. Intel current

Let's be realistic. Intel Current is still IceLake-SP. Sapphire Rapids is . . . look I'm not an ODM insider, but it would not surprise me at all if Intel were still struggling to get Sapphire Rapids to ODMs. Not one teeny tiny bit.

Genoa has likely been shipping in small quantities to hyperscalars from month, in post-QS form.

And frankly this is the Zen3D thread, so.

 

[lobz]

So 5800X3D is 2% faster than 12900KS? Yay?

If you can overclock that 12900KS by even 10% it will blow away the 5800X3D. Yes power consumption is a huge problem for Intel and overclocking would make it all that much worse, but given all the reviews I see for 1000 watt power supplies and the coming of 1500 watt power supplies, I thought hardcore gamers didn't care about details like electric bills 🙂

Way to completely miss out on the point and analysis of these articles. No problem though, always refreshing to see real colors shining through 😂
But let's think about what you said for a second. Do you know what it actually means to overclock the 12900KS by a measly 10%?
The math is not hard, even I can do it, so I wonder: have you thought about what you say before you click on the blue button?

 

[igor_kavinski]

But let's think about what you said for a second. Do you know what it actually means to overclock the 12900KS by a measly 10%?
The math is not hard, even I can do it, so I wonder: have you thought about what you say before you click on the blue button?

He did say "If" 😛