Info 64MB V-Cache on 5XXX Zen3 Average +15% in Games

[Kedas]

Well we know now how they will bridge the long wait to Zen4 on AM5 Q4 2022.
Production start for V-cache is end this year so too early for Zen4 so this is certainly coming to AM4.
+15% Lisa said is "like an entire architectural generation"

 

[kognak]

The graphs have OC variants and other cpus with 8MB of L3. Yet the gap is still not several % as You claimed.

The gap is what I said 3300X vs 3600/3700X/3900X/3950X and bunch of other skus in-between. Sorry, pointing out one barely existing crippled Zen2 with halved L3 doesn't prove me wrong. And most certainly not other CPUs with different architectures. I won't continue this further.

 

[DrMrLordX]

That'll kill the resale value of the 5800X.

It's likely that the 5800X, 5900X, and 5950X will go EOL soon.

 

[LightningZ71]

I kinda doubt that. They will be producing CCDs for Milan parts for several more years to meet contractural support requirements. Producing 5xxx series CPUs helps to justify the volume of production.

 

[Markfw]

It's likely that the 5800X, 5900X, and 5950X will go EOL soon.

Could be why prices are where they are. I just got my 6th 5950x for $490 shipped.

 

[nicalandia]

I just got my 6th 5950x for $490 shipped.

What are you doing with 96C/192T of processing power? Mining Monero?

 

[eek2121]

Most of those were 14nm native dual cores. There is no way they sold enoght 3500C/3700C to kill the entire pc apu market for over a year. And in notebooks they got replaced by Renoir. 12nm APU/CPUs dissapeared some time after Renoir launched.

Also the 12/14nm 3000g Athlons were just fine in the pc market... until the mining craze, then they got suck up by miners. Now Athlons are MIA and has been for at least half a year.

Also keep in mind that the 5600G and 5700G had been holding up just fine since they launched them and Cezanne is still the main notebook APU as of today.

AMD is still shipping a truckload of chips such as the (12nm) 3500u. Walk into your local Best Buy or Costco and you'll see them in many different laptops.

 

[Markfw]

What are you doing with 96C/192T of processing power? Mining Monero?

I have over 550c/1100 threads (see sig) doing medical research.

 

[nicalandia]

I have over 550c/1100 threads (see sig) doing medical research.

Are CPUs more suited for Medical Research work than High end GPUs?

 

[lobz]

Are CPUs more suited for Medical Research work than High end GPUs?

Or more like, which is the better fruit, orange or apple?

 

[lobz]

Freaking double post...

 

[Markfw]

Are CPUs more suited for Medical Research work than High end GPUs?

I have 17 video cards doing the same thing.

 

[Doug S]

I have 17 video cards doing the same thing.

Do you live in an igloo, and need the help to keep it warm? Or do you not have to pay for your electricity usage? Because it would be more efficient to donate the money you're spending on this directly to medical research than to buy a bunch of hardware to sit around and run F@H.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I kinda doubt that. They will be producing CCDs for Milan parts for several more years to meet contractural support requirements. Producing 5xxx series CPUs helps to justify the volume of production.

There are plenty of things they can do with Zen3 CCDs. The 5800X, 5900X, and 5950X specifically will get knocked off the market by Raphael. Plus yields on N7 are so good at this point that they can probably sell everything as Milan.

 

[Grabo]

International perspective. much smaller market than the US:

The 5800x is currently sold used for ~350USD here (Sweden) and the 5700x is to debut at 299USD acc to the latest videocardz pricing article I saw, "299USD" herearound, plus 25% blanket VAT guarantees that it will be more expensive than what the 5800x has gone for used the last month or so. So locally I don't see how it will do anything to the 5800x resale value. Further the 5600x has not really had any juicy price cuts, it's 290USD everyplace except amazon .se where it's about 10USD cheaper, and with the 5600 incoming at 199USD it will have room to slide in just below the 5600x.

I don't really want to guess where the 5800x3d will land price wise.

 

[nicalandia]

So it would appear that the CCD complex in the 5800X3D is smaller than regular Zen3 and about the same size as the Zen4 leaked by Gigabyte

https://www.amd.com/en/product/11576

 

[igor_kavinski]

What does that mean? Something removed from the CCD to make it smaller?

 

[nicalandia]

What does that mean? Something removed from the CCD to make it smaller?

Who knows, this is the first time AMD officially discloses the CCD Measurements for Zen3 based parts. Any other were just estimates.

Pretty good estimates I must say, here for example Anandtech's Estimate of the CCDs and IO Die size(the IO die size seems to be unchanged in 5800X3D based on size alone, 122.6 mm^2 for Anandtech and 125 mm^2 official number from AMD)

 

[igor_kavinski]

https://www.amd.com/en/product/11811

Hmm...The CCD size confirms that this is 5600G with faulty iGPU?

 

[nicalandia]

https://www.amd.com/en/product/11811

Hmm...The CCD size confirms that this is 5600G with faulty iGPU?

I believe most of us knew the 6C/12T 5500 would be based on a defective APU, not only on the CCD size but on the Cache size(16MiB of L3$)

 

[nicalandia]

What does that mean? Something removed from the CCD to make it smaller?

Actually checking the info on the 5600 and 5700X they show the same 74 mm^2 for CCD and 125 mm^2 for IO die. I am not sure if it's been like that for the entire time(perhaps it's a typo) or these are newer built CCDs

What I find interesting is that most versed people put Zen3 CCD at about 80 mm^2, AMD says it's 74 mm^2 on new models. But Cezanne it's spot on at 180 mm^2 and Rembrandt at 210 mm^2 and the 12nm IO die is the same size as especulated.

https://www.amd.com/en/product/11826

https://www.amd.com/en/product/11831

 

[Tuna-Fish]

What I find interesting is that most versed people put Zen3 CCD at about 80 mm^2, AMD says it's 74 mm^2 on new models. But Cezanne it's spot on at 180 mm^2 and Rembrandt at 210 mm^2 and the 12nm IO die is the same size as especulated.

People just consistently overestimate die size measurements from pictures because the epoxy that holds the die spreads around and makes it look bigger. The difference between 80mm^2 and 74mm^2 is just 0.2mm on every edge.

 

[nicalandia]

People just consistently overestimate die size measurements from pictures because the epoxy that holds the die spreads around and makes it look bigger. The difference between 80mm^2 and 74mm^2 is just 0.2mm on every edge.

I agree, this means that Zen4 at 72 mm^2 is really packing Huge AVX512 Registries

 

[tamz_msc]

I agree, this means that Zen4 at 72 mm^2 is really packing Huge AVX512 Registries

AVX-512 execution units don't take up as much space as people think. See for e.g. Skylake-X.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

AVX-512 execution units don't take up as much space as people think. See for e.g. Skylake-X.

Could even be implemented as two pass, so there wouldn't necessarily be any additional hardware on there. See Excavators AVX2, or Bobcats x64, implementation f.x. It's certainly not unheard of from AMD.

 

[DisEnchantment]

People just consistently overestimate die size measurements from pictures because the epoxy that holds the die spreads around and makes it look bigger. The difference between 80mm^2 and 74mm^2 is just 0.2mm on every edge.

Add 0.1mm-0.2 mm of scribe lines on all sides too before adding the epoxy.

Anyway, I am very doubtful of Zen3D 74mm CCD, could be a typo. Zen3 CCD when measured externally with scribe lines + epoxy is 83+mm2.
AMD mentioned 80.7 mm2 Zen3 CCD during press briefings at Zen3 launch, I doubt it will change at this point to 74mm2.
This means the MTr/mm2 improved by 10% from Zen3 to Zen3X3D, very doubtful on that considering they are reusing the CCDs for non stacked parts and the assembly and the contacts on the package has to account for this. They are not doing a new cell library and NTO just for Zen3X3D

With die shots likes the ones from Fritzchen Fritz you can account for both the epoxy and scribe lines actually, in couple of weeks someone will tear it down and we will know.