Info 64MB V-Cache on 5XXX Zen3 Average +15% in Games

[Kedas]

Well we know now how they will bridge the long wait to Zen4 on AM5 Q4 2022.
Production start for V-cache is end this year so too early for Zen4 so this is certainly coming to AM4.
+15% Lisa said is "like an entire architectural generation"

 

[jamescox]

This CPU was designed for a single purpose; to destroy the world of men. *Checks notes* wait, that was the Uruk Hai.

It is designed for the halo effect - "World's fastest gaming CPU". Everything else is ancillary, and largely immaterial IMO. If it accomplishes that goal = mission accomplished.

Under $200 BNIB with warranty makes Intel the only game in town for the moment. Over $200 you cannot buy a bad CPU/APU. All are excellent in any given price range right now. The vast majority of gamers will be GPU limited far, far, more often. Making all the nitpicking, typical but boring. And confusing, since none of us is anything close to an influencer. And if it isn't influencing anyone, that means peak whinging has still not happened. 😛

This cpu was likely not designed to be a halo gaming product. It was designed to dominate the server / HPC market. Milan is already mostly dominating the server market. Then you have Milan-X, which in some cases performs massively better than Milan. For many applications, Milan-x is a disruptive level of performance.

It would be interesting to know what went on behind the scenes that lead to a v-cache desktop part. I suspect that, under many circumstances, we would never have seen it on the desktop, at least not for Zen 3 on AM4. Probably not quite the unofficial project that lead to Threadripper, but it may not have had a desktop SKU planned from the start.

 

[jpiniero]

It would be interesting to know what went on behind the scenes that lead to a v-cache desktop part.

Same as the normal Ryzens... there's going to be chips that are too leaky to be Epycs.

 

[ryanjagtap]

Same as the normal Ryzens... there's going to be chips that are too leaky to be Epycs.

That, and whether the CPU increases performance in normal tasks or not. I don't think if there was no performance uplift in any workload may that be gaming or any other task, there would be no anticipation and restlessness that we see for this CPU's launch. (Hypothetical situation: They also would have to sell it at a loss so that they would get at least some revenue from those leaky dies which do not increase any performance due to the extra cache on consumer platform)

 

[Hans Gruber]

The reason they say the 5800x3d will not OC is because of the voltage limitation on the v-cache itself. The CPU could go up to 1.5v ocing but the v-cache is limited to 1.35v and the CPU voltage is directly tied into the v-cache voltage.

 

[moinmoin]

Eh, the higher prices on launch in Nov 2020 were 95% because AMD could get away with it.

They were in line with the performance improvement they brought. Zen 2 chips continued to be available for those who didn't want the higher price and/or didn't need the higher performance. It's a moot point now anyway since Zen 2 chips dropped in price long ago and Zen 3 chips joined as well already.

 

[DrMrLordX]

they really needed to make as much money as possible while the competition was still weak.

Don't worry. The competition will remain weak for some time.

A Zen3D SKU was never going to launch before March/April time frame. The 3D stacking technology wasn't scheduled to be ready for volume manufacturing until very late 2021. So by the time they build/test/assemble/package/ship the chips, you get to late March at the very earliest. Anyone saying it should have come before then just didn't know what they were talking about.

That doesn't square with reality. Milan-X is already shipping, and has been for months.

The reason they say the 5800x3d will not OC is because of the voltage limitation on the v-cache itself. The CPU could go up to 1.5v ocing but the v-cache is limited to 1.35v and the CPU voltage is directly tied into the v-cache voltage.

Sounds like AMD needed a separate voltage rail for the vcache, which is something that can't be provided on AM4.

 

[igor_kavinski]

AMD Ryzen 5000 Builders Thread

Page 63 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

forums.anandtech.com

That guy's current 5800X idle temps don't inspire much confidence in the 5800X3D. V-cache may add a few degrees more.

 

[coercitiv]

That guy's current 5800X idle temps don't inspire much confidence in the 5800X3D. V-cache may add a few degrees more.

You mean the person using a stock cooler intended for 65W TDP operation on a 105W TDP CPU? I'll let you on a little secret: based on what we know about 5800X3D so far, you should expect lower hot spot temps when compared with 5800X. The same 1.35V limit that was invoked by AMD for restricting overclocking will play a massive role in limiting temperature spikes.

I'm also aware you're very keen on independent review data, so how about we stop speculating about 5800X3D temperatures and simply wait for first day reviews? Turns out this "wait for reviews" thing cuts both ways.

 

[Thunder 57]

You mean the person using a stock cooler intended for 65W TDP operation on a 105W TDP CPU? I'll let you on a little secret: based on what we know about 5800X3D so far, you should expect lower hot spot temps when compared with 5800X. The same 1.35V limit that was invoked by AMD for restricting overclocking will play a massive role in limiting temperature spikes.

I'm also aware you're very keen on independent review data, so how about we stop speculating about 5800X3D temperatures and simply wait for first day reviews? Turns out this "wait for reviews" thing cuts both ways.

Beat me to it. You're (igor_kavinski) talking about one guy using a stock cooler, when the 5800X doesn't even come with one. Nice job being objective.

 

[igor_kavinski]

You mean the person using a stock cooler intended for 65W TDP operation on a 105W TDP CPU?

I honestly don't know why idle temps would be affected by the choice of cooler. Please educate me. Why would an idling CPU at max 2 or 3% load in Task Manager heat up to 47 degrees at 28 degrees celsius ambient temperature? What in the CPU is consuming that electricity? The I/O die?

EDIT: OK, I just saw your post in the guy's 5800X thread. It is quite possible that his case is heating up due to his 3080. That might explain it.

 

[Timorous]

I just want to point out that I have seen some reviews/leaks. Might be accurate and might not be accurate. At what point will they test AMD CPU's with either 3600mhz or 3800mhz with Cas 16 vs Alder Lake processors running DDR5? AMD runs much better with fast DDR4 sticks. When official 5800x3D reviews are published next month. They better not use 3200mhz memory, nobody runs AMD rigs below 3600mhz.

I ryn my 3600 c16 bdie at 3400 c14 because my b350 mortar + 2200g struggles with anything faster.

Hoping zen3 + new bios will allow 3600 or 3800 c16 speeds.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

One month till launch!

 

[igor_kavinski]

Does AMD sell direct?

 

[jpiniero]

AMD EPYC 7003 "Milan-X" launches March 21st, specs and pricing leaked - VideoCardz.com

AMD EPYC 7773X 64-core server CPU to cost 8,800 USD The pricing and official specs of the upcoming EPYC 7003 series have been confirmed. The Milan-X series, AMD’s first data-center processors featuring 3D V-Cache, will launch on March 21st. This is the same date that we reported earlier this...

videocardz.com

Videocardz has some updated info on the Milan-X Epycs... all of the models, including the 16 core one are using 8 dies. Interestingly the 16 core model is more expensive than the 24.

 

[Hitman928]

That doesn't square with reality. Milan-X is already shipping, and has been for months.

Epyc always does early sampling to at least key customers/partners from qualification runs. We’re talking about retail availability which will only come after volume production has begun which, again, puts us at late March to April timeline for Ryzen3D.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Does AMD sell direct?

Yes.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Epyc always does early sampling

Yes? And? You stated that 3D stacking on N7 wasn't even available until Q4 2021, making it physically impossible for AMD to do anything other than tiny lab runs.

AMD has been selling Milan-X to ODM channels (read: mostly Microsoft) since last year.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Yes.

I like their "Check Retail Availability" feature. I'm just wondering. What are the chances I can get a 5800X3D in my cart the moment it launches on their shopping site?

 

[DrMrLordX]

I like their "Check Retail Availability" feature. I'm just wondering. What are the chances I can get a 5800X3D in my cart the moment it launches on their shopping site?

Try it and find out. It's (more or less) how I got my Radeon VII. Though I had trouble finding the correct links back then. They've improved their site over the last three years.

 

[Hitman928]

Yes? And? You stated that 3D stacking on N7 wasn't even available until Q4 2021, making it physically impossible for AMD to do anything other than tiny lab runs.

AMD has been selling Milan-X to ODM channels (read: mostly Microsoft) since last year.

No, I said volume production stacking wasn’t available until Q4 2021, which comes straight from TSMC. AMD has clearly had multiple ES/QS runs before that from which they can source qualification samples for key partners. This is not unexpected and always happens before retail availability, which is what we were discussing.

 

[biostud]

AMD EPYC 7003 "Milan-X" launches March 21st, specs and pricing leaked - VideoCardz.com

AMD EPYC 7773X 64-core server CPU to cost 8,800 USD The pricing and official specs of the upcoming EPYC 7003 series have been confirmed. The Milan-X series, AMD’s first data-center processors featuring 3D V-Cache, will launch on March 21st. This is the same date that we reported earlier this...

videocardz.com

Videocardz has some updated info on the Milan-X Epycs... all of the models, including the 16 core one are using 8 dies. Interestingly the 16 core model is more expensive than the 24.

Some specific software needs max performance/core (iirc financial/stock market) and if you also license software/cpu core then the 16 core Epyc cost can make sense.

 

[Hans Gruber]

I ryn my 3600 c16 bdie at 3400 c14 because my b350 mortar + 2200g struggles with anything faster.

Hoping zen3 + new bios will allow 3600 or 3800 c16 speeds.

A b450 or newer will run 3800mhz memory speed with your 3600 or any Zen 3 processor in most systems.

 

[desrever]

No, I said volume production stacking wasn’t available until Q4 2021, which comes straight from TSMC. AMD has clearly had multiple ES/QS runs before that from which they can source qualification samples for key partners. This is not unexpected and always happens before retail availability, which is what we were discussing.

Microsoft had MilanX servers on Azure for public access which were months ago. Doubt they are creating those out of ES/QS chips lol. Only reason the 5800X3D is coming later is cause there is just so much demand for MilanX from just MS and likely initial production wasn't high. General avaliablity of MilanX is coming about the same time as 5800X3D which points to a ramp in production but the initial MilanX shipments weren't engineering samples even if the volume was still low.

 

[Panino Manino]

Don't worry. The competition will remain weak for some time.

Competition improved, is asking lower prices and can actually put more chips on the shelf.
It's already over.

 

[DrMrLordX]

No, I said volume production stacking wasn’t available until Q4 2021, which comes straight from TSMC. AMD has clearly had multiple ES/QS runs before that from which they can source qualification samples for key partners. This is not unexpected and always happens before retail availability, which is what we were discussing.

Like @desrever said, they were shipping Milan-X to hyperscalars in volume last year. TSMC made that comment public, but obviously they were letting AMD use the tech a little early . . .

Competition improved, is asking lower prices and can actually put more chips on the shelf.
It's already over.

LOL just watch what happens after Raptor Lake. It's only just begun!

Also, lower prices? Not really.