Info 64MB V-Cache on 5XXX Zen3 Average +15% in Games

[Kedas]

Well we know now how they will bridge the long wait to Zen4 on AM5 Q4 2022.
Production start for V-cache is end this year so too early for Zen4 so this is certainly coming to AM4.
+15% Lisa said is "like an entire architectural generation"

 

[Ajay]

But is the motherboard wiring all the extra pins even though ADL is not using them?

Or are all of these just power and ground pins?

It would be odd for mobo makers not to do this. As much as they prefer new sales, pissing off existing customers is a bad plan (by not having the socket fully 'wired up').

 

[Hitman928]

But is the motherboard wiring all the extra pins even though ADL is not using them?

Or are all of these just power and ground pins?

I don't know what the extra pins are for, but obviously in order to support the coming RPL, they'd need to be wired on the motherboard and ADL is just leaving the connection as an open or terminating them somehow so that they're not actually used.

 

[Abwx]

I don't know what the extra pins are for, but obviously in order to support the coming RPL, they'd need to be wired on the motherboard and ADL is just leaving the connection as an open or terminating them somehow so that they're not actually used.

If that s something else than power plans then it cant work since signal paths must be tested with the relevant CPU to ensure stability.

 

[Joe NYC]

Why would people buy an older Intel CPU that's inferior to the competing AMD CPU just because Intel released a new CPU that's better than Zen 3 in some workloads?

Here is how it works. A potential customer for new or upgrade asked his knowledgeable friend: "Who makes the best CPUs for gaming these days?"
Friend: "Intel"

Goes to the store and asks: "Can I have Intel CPU for about $350"?
Store: "Sure, here is Rocket Lake for you"
Customer: "Thank you for selling me the best CPU"

 

[moinmoin]

Twitter responses are saying the socket already supports Raptor Lake and that ADL just doesn't use all the socket pins so existing motherboard should support RPL, we'll see.

Is that a surprise? Intel at least kept two gens compatible with each new incompatible socket. Only one gen would be a new low. I'd rather expect them to try three gens to match AMD's approach with AM4. ADL would be the perfect time as well to go for that, rebuilding DIY market's confidence in Intel.

 

[Bigos]

Is this the AMD VCache thread or Intel Alder Lake thread?

Seriously, can we focus on what the thread is about?

 

[eek2121]

That would kill a lot of desire to get Alder Lake if you've got no upgrade path.

Depending on how Zen 4 and AM5 shape up I'm not even sure if more pins will help Intel. They managed to claw back a victory over AMD, but it was only a partial victory and required really pushing the power draw to eek out a few more percentage points at that.

Some of that uplift is as much attributable to the move to DDR5 memory as it is to core improvements on Intel's part and AMD will get that bump soon as well.

FYI, LGA 1700 = LGA 1800. If you have Alder Lake, you will be able to upgrade to Raptor Lake. This is basically confirmed (aka: as real as it gets outside of Intel shouting from the streets, which they definitely aren't gonna do until shortly before RPL-S).

Also boo to you folks that made me look at ignored content. Now you know why I ignore said content.

EDIT: My handbook for people to ignore. Please replace Vendor X with literally any CPU/GPU maker:

1. Anyone comparing launch day sales to anything. Period. Instant. Ignore. (also, realistically, less than 3 months of sales? ignore.)
2. Anyone saying that Vendor X is hopelessly outmatched and cannot possibly catch up. See below.
3. Anyone claiming abnormally large efficiency increases ("zomg 500% InCREaSE vs a YeAr OlD PrOduCT")
4. Anyone claiming that vendor X is defying the laws of physics.
5. Anyone automatically discounting vendor X, where X is one of the top 10 silicon vendors in the world, without accounting for MONEY $$$
6. Anyone with a new forum account less than 2 years old, or anyone that references a <social media network here> that is less than 2 years old (that also has a sketchy track record)

It's okay to be pessimistic. I tend to be 200% pessimistic when it involves Intel, though I've been around . It's not okay to pretend like Intel, who can literally afford to set piles of money on fire, can't catch up, keep up, or innovate like AMD or Apple. MICROSOFT is currently the most valuable company in the world, yet they don't have the best machines out there, nor do they own the marketplace. They recently started limited x64 ARM emulation to Windows 11...and they are STILL the most valuable company in the world.

Food for thought.

EDIT: Above all else, I know Intel and Apple both well enough to question hype or pessimism from either, for what it is worth. If only I had held onto those $2 Apple shares...

 

[esquared]

Is this the AMD VCache thread or Intel Alder Lake thread?

Seriously, can we focus on what the thread is about?

^^^ Exactly.

This is an AMD v-cache thread.
You want to talk about Alder Lake? There are other threads for that.

Keep this thread on-topic.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

 

[Shmee]

Are there any updates on when these new AMD chips may come out? Hopefully for AM4 still?

 

[leoneazzurro]

Are there any updates on when these new AMD chips may come out? Hopefully for AM4 still?

Zen3D was literally confirmed to be for AM4 by AMD themselves and they said it will launch early 2022, probably at CES. New APU (Rembrandt) seems to support DDR5 only so on desktop they will be on AM5 only, on mobile it wil lhave a new package anyway. For this is quite probable a CES launch, as it is already in production since a couple of months at least, according to leakers. Zen4 will launch later in 2022, AM5 on desktop (but there were rumors of a "mobile" vairiant too).

 

[Shmee]

Thanks! Seems like I should wait until AM5 releases then, and make the decision of either the entire new build, waiting longer with what I have (5900X), or getting the last CPU upgrade for my X570.

 

[Joe NYC]

Are there any updates on when these new AMD chips may come out? Hopefully for AM4 still?

Not really any update, AMD originally announced that Ryzen would receive the new chips with V-Cache first, but since the original unveiling, plans have changed, apparently, and AMD is shipping them to Cloud providers firs, especially Microsoft Azure.

So even though server version Milan X got an unofficial announcement, Milan is still not officially announced, no SKUs and pricing revealed. And nothing on Ryzen. So perhaps CES, which is a good occasion to make official announcements for Client oriented chips. CES is early January.

 

[Joe NYC]

Thanks! Seems like I should wait until AM5 releases then, and make the decision of either the entire new build, waiting longer with what I have (5900X), or getting the last CPU upgrade for my X570.

That's still very recent. Zen 3D version of 5900x should be the least painful upgrade, and probably cheapest, if you can sell your old CPU

Otherwise, you are replacing everything, mobo, memory and CPU

 

[DrMrLordX]

So while AMD did not release Zen 3D, and instead released a video,

What are you talking about? AMD didn't release anything yet. Their next product desktop product will probably show up at CES in January. We don't officially know what is coming out.

 

[Ajay]

Is this the AMD VCache thread or Intel Alder Lake thread?

Seriously, can we focus on what the thread is about?

Yeah, with info on Zen 3D drying up, it’s tough to stay on topic.

 

[Markfw]

Yeah, with info on Zen 3D drying up, it’s tough to stay on topic.

As esqared said, stay on topic. if you can't, don't post.

Edit: If you can't you are probably in the wrong thread, so find the right one and post there.

 

[eek2121]

Zen3D was literally confirmed to be for AM4 by AMD themselves and they said it will launch early 2022, probably at CES. New APU (Rembrandt) seems to support DDR5 only so on desktop they will be on AM5 only, on mobile it wil lhave a new package anyway. For this is quite probable a CES launch, as it is already in production since a couple of months at least, according to leakers. Zen4 will launch later in 2022, AM5 on desktop (but there were rumors of a "mobile" vairiant too).

FYI, Rembrandt desktop launches after Zen 4. You will see Rembrandt “desktops” before that, but they won’t be socketed. Rembrandt mobile and Zen3D should both be officially announced at CES and launched late Q1/early Q2.

 

[Joe NYC]

The subject says this is about gaming CPUs, in particular AMD entry in the gaming CPUs - Zen 3D.

Absence of AMD gaming CPU, Ryzen Zen 3D, while competitive gaming CPU was released is newsworthy and on topic.

BTW, I was scolded for calling Alder Lake "K" release as "Gaming CPU". As a follow up to those who scolded me for calling Alder Lake K Intel's gaming CPU, here is Pat Gelsinger who calls it " Alder Lake for gaming PCs"

Intel's chip recovery plan could restore US manufacturing prowess

The chipmaker's come-from-behind strategy is risky and will take years, even with government subsidies.

www.cnet.com

Did you not read the mod warning?
Any discussion of Alder Lake belongs anywhere but here.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

 

[Markfw]

The subject says this is about gaming CPUs, in particular AMD entry in the gaming CPUs - Zen 3D.

Absence of AMD gaming CPU, Ryzen Zen 3D, while competitive gaming CPU was released is newsworthy and on topic.

BTW, I was scolded for calling Alder Lake "K" release as "Gaming CPU". As a follow up to those who scolded me for calling Alder Lake K Intel's gaming CPU, here is Pat Gelsinger who calls it " Alder Lake for gaming PCs"

Intel's chip recovery plan could restore US manufacturing prowess

The chipmaker's come-from-behind strategy is risky and will take years, even with government subsidies.

www.cnet.com

Its about Zen3d, which is not out yet. Its not about gaming CPUs and certainly NOT about alderlake, so its NOT on-topic. Also AMD has perfectly good gaming CPUs, they are just not (at the moment) the highest in ppd, just close.

 

[Joe NYC]

Its about Zen3d, which is not out yet. Its not about gaming CPUs and certainly NOT about alderlake, so its NOT on-topic. Also AMD has perfectly good gaming CPUs, they are just not (at the moment) the highest in ppd, just close.

It literally says: "64MB V-Cache on 59XX Zen3 Average +15% in Games" in the subject.

I am going to guess that when AMD charges some premium for the V-Cache (as is likely), over the Zen 3 without V-Cache, gaming performance will bus used as justification for the premium. Because other applications will see lower performance boost

The 15% actually sounds like a good price premium compared to equivalent regular Zen 3D.

 

[Markfw]

Saying a CPU is 15% in games does NOT equal "this thread is about gaming cpus". Its about a new bunch of AMD CPUs, get it ? And what does 15% faster have to do with price premium ? Again, you are twisting words.

 

[itsmydamnation]

It literally says: "64MB V-Cache on 59XX Zen3 Average +15% in Games" in the subject.

I am going to guess that when AMD charges some premium for the V-Cache (as is likely), over the Zen 3 without V-Cache, gaming performance will bus used as justification for the premium. Because other applications will see lower performance boost

The 15% actually sounds like a good price premium compared to equivalent regular Zen 3D.

they could cost a lot more they could cost a little more they could cost the same.... who knows , but also consider that azure a deploying them on mass for a reason and its not gaming........

 

[Ajay]

It literally says: "64MB V-Cache on 59XX Zen3 Average +15% in Games" in the subject.

I am going to guess that when AMD charges some premium for the V-Cache (as is likely), over the Zen 3 without V-Cache, gaming performance will bus used as justification for the premium. Because other applications will see lower performance boost

The 15% actually sounds like a good price premium compared to equivalent regular Zen 3D.

Some friendly advice - when you get a Mod warning, stop arguing. Move on, it's just not worth it.
There is a special place to post your concerns about moderation: (1) Moderator Discussions | AnandTech Forums

 

[Joe NYC]

Some friendly advice - when you get a Mod warning, stop arguing. Move on, it's just not worth it.
There is a special place to post your concerns about moderation: (1) Moderator Discussions | AnandTech Forums

I think moderators are doing a fine job. I agree that the posts solely about ADL, such as compatibility of ADL sockets and pins etc. should not be on this thread, so a good reminder to stay on topic.

 

[jpiniero]

Some friendly advice - when you get a Mod warning, stop arguing. Move on, it's just not worth it.
There is a special place to post your concerns about moderation: (1) Moderator Discussions | AnandTech Forums

IMO mods should be moving posts to the appropriate thread. Although I wouldn't be surprised if the forum software couldn't do that.



Discussion of what mods should be doing in open forum is not allowed.

You have an issue with the moderation?
Make a thread in the MD forum. It's the only place to do so.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director