Info 64MB V-Cache on 5XXX Zen3 Average +15% in Games

[Kedas]

Well we know now how they will bridge the long wait to Zen4 on AM5 Q4 2022.
Production start for V-cache is end this year so too early for Zen4 so this is certainly coming to AM4.
+15% Lisa said is "like an entire architectural generation"

 

[UsandThem]

I look at it differently: Intel is throwing 241 Watts at the problem (in other words, going to ridiculous lengths) to regain performance crown (because Intel has found out what it is like to be an also run).

What is AMD doing in the meantime?

Worse than nothing. Making a video, announcing that AMD is not going to fight for performance leadership. And then paying money to Google/YouTube making sure everyone knows that AMD missed the boat as far as having a competing processor against Alder Lake.

There was a perfect window to launch Zen3D, and AMD is missing it.

By the time CES comes around, watching AMD announce Zen3D will be a snooze fest. For most viewers like Joy Biden at the climate change speech - hard to keep the eyes open... And for a good reason.

I just can't even touch that as it's just that priceless as is.

 

[therealmongo]

Sounds like someone just wants their predictions to be true (no I have not followed all the thread to know if this is the case or not)

 

[Joe NYC]

Even if it turns out it isn't, it's not the end of the world for AMD.

The whole posts just seemed to be way too dramatic / doom and gloom. It's not like all the Zen 3 CPUs will all self destruct or something if they were suddenly in 2nd place.

All the Zen 3 CPUs lose some of their value.

Irrational, just because another CPU (Alder Lake) beat yet another CPU (Zen 3D) which did not show up for competition? Yeah, but that's how things work...

 

[UsandThem]

All the Zen 3 CPUs lose some of their value.

Irrational, just because another CPU (Alder Lake) beat yet another CPU (Zen 3D) which did not show up for competition? Yeah, but that's how things work...

I think you're just trying to get a rise out of people by posting utter nonsense, and I won't be one who falls for it.

And the Intel CPUs aren't even out yet (or reviewed), so you have ZERO proof of what you keep claiming. Yet here you are post after post after post like you are in some kind of inner circle with access to this info.

But you do you. Good job!

 

[Joe NYC]

We'll see if Intel regains performance leadership (and in what specific workloads it may or may not have an advantage) in a few days. We'll also see what caveats there are in terms of platform cost (DDR 4 vs DDR 5). We don't know how good intel's launch availibility will be.

Good test: When Pat Gelsinger proclaims that Intel gained performance leadership with Alder Lake, people will not start laughing.

We don't know how AMD will respond with price cuts.

Yeah, AMD has a lot of experience in being an also run and having to cut prices.

But other times, there was nothing AMD could do. This time, they just let the performance leaderships slip away while they were napping or making a video.

AMD rebuilt it's reputation with the first 3 generations of Ryzen despite being at disadvantage in single thread and gaming. AM4 has a huge a userbase that could be tempted into upgrading to Zen3 at a discount or Zen3D with similar performance to ADL. Lets wait for benchmarks before hitting the panic button. A return to zen 2 pricing would be perfectly fine with me. Competition is good for consumers. AMD's consumer desktop margins are of no concern to me.

It's not competition when one side has > 80% of market share. It's a miracle that AMD even survived. AMD would have been gone, broken up, sold for peanuts, if Intel did not make a long series of mistakes.

 

[Thibsie]

I think you're just trying to get a rise out of people by posting utter nonsense, and I won't be one who falls for it.

And the Intel CPUs aren't even out yet (or reviewed), so you have ZERO proof of what you keep claiming. Yet here you are post after post after post like you are in some kind of inner circle with access to this info.

But you do you. Good job!

Not that this is new in any way.
Did before. Will do it again.

 

[Joe NYC]

I think you're just trying to get a rise out of people by posting utter nonsense, and I won't be one who falls for it.

And the Intel CPUs aren't even out yet (or reviewed), so you have ZERO proof of what you keep claiming. Yet here you are post after post after post like you are in some kind of inner circle with access to this info.

But you do you. Good job!

There is such a thing as Halo premium.

All the shortages and logistic problems may be interfering with this currently but when things go back to normal, it will re-establish itself.

As far as performance, we don't have all the details, but it seems like a safe prediction that on average, 1 Big Core will outperform 1 Zen 3 core, and so will 6 Big cores likely beat 6 Zen 3 cores, and likewise 8. Going further than that is less certainty, more speculation.

Could Zen3D have beaten or tied Alder Lake in gaming (because this is what Alder Lake launch is all about, gaming)? Far more likely than Zen3 alone.

 

[scannall]

For me personally anyway, it doesn't really matter how fast Zen 3D is. Or Alder Lake. I won't be building a new computer until I can get a video card at a reasonable price. ;-) My CPU I have currently is more than enough to drive my current video card. Using a 2600X, and an 8 gig RX 580. I paid $189 for the video card on sale a few years ago, and now used ones are $600.... It's crazy out there folks.

 

[Ranulf]

There is such a thing as Halo premium.

All the shortages and logistic problems may be interfering with this currently but when things go back to normal, it will re-establish itself.

As far as performance, we don't have all the details, but it seems like a safe prediction that on average, 1 Big Core will outperform 1 Zen 3 core, and so will 6 Big cores likely beat 6 Zen 3 cores, and likewise 8. Going further than that is less certainty, more speculation.

Could Zen3D have beaten or tied Alder Lake in gaming (because this is what Alder Lake launch is all about, gaming)? Far more likely than Zen3 alone.

The upside there is likely lower Ryzen 5k cpu prices.

 

[Zucker2k]

The upside there is likely lower Ryzen 5k cpu prices.

It's a downside for him. Pay attention!

 

[UsandThem]

The upside there is likely lower Ryzen 5k cpu prices.

From the sound of it, if a person can wait 2-3 days, all Zen 3 CPUs should be free of charge.

I guess I'll keep an eye out for that Newegg/Amazon clearance (in between watching the previously mentioned Biden climate change speech). Hopefully all the B550 and X570 motherboards will be in the same boat as well.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

For most viewers like Joe Biden at the climate change speech - hard to keep the eyes open...

At least he's in good company. Our Prime minister did that during COP15. He was even supposed to lead the thing...

...and was mercilessly skewered by Cirkusrevyen* for it. Nobody who saw that sketch will ever forget that incident. I'm still laughing just thinking about it...

*Revy. Danish yearly comedic entertainment poking fun at pretty much everything.

 

[DrMrLordX]

The goldmine of being able to sell performance leading product on a plentiful TSMC 7nm node, for a full year, was ruined.

What are you talking about? AMD is focused on getting Genoa out before Sapphire Rapids. Enthusiasts are taking a back seat. AMD is chasing bigger money than what we spend.

 

[Joe NYC]

What are you talking about? AMD is focused on getting Genoa out before Sapphire Rapids. Enthusiasts are taking a back seat. AMD is chasing bigger money than what we spend.

The ticket to keep enthusiasts happy buying 7nm CPUs was to introduce Zen3D in Q4 2021.

Then, AMD could go on introducing 5nm server Genoa before desktop Zen 4, and people would not complain too much.

As is, AMD missed the window for Zen3D, Raphael and RDNA3 will likely be Q4 2022, so AMD has a big fat zero for enthusiasts for a year.

Rembrandt seems nice but it is targeting slightly different markets.

Zen 3D and Zen XT (if it ever materializes) will be seen as too little too late.

 

[Joe NYC]

From the sound of it, if a person can wait 2-3 days, all Zen 3 CPUs should be free of charge.

I guess I'll keep an eye out for that Newegg/Amazon clearance (in between watching the previously mentioned Biden climate change speech). Hopefully all the B550 and X570 motherboards will be in the same boat as well.

AMD will probably just package the Zen 3 desktop dies, that will lose their attractiveness, as Milan chips (before dropping prices), draining the market of supply...

An option AMD did not have in the past, when only route available after losing competition was to lower prices.

 

[Makaveli]

For me personally anyway, it doesn't really matter how fast Zen 3D is. Or Alder Lake. I won't be building a new computer until I can get a video card at a reasonable price. ;-) My CPU I have currently is more than enough to drive my current video card. Using a 2600X, and an 8 gig RX 580. I paid $189 for the video card on sale a few years ago, and now used ones are $600.... It's crazy out there folks.

Yup I sold my RX580 for $500 CAD crazy prices. But that was helpful for my 6800XT purchase. It is crazy out there if you're trying to buy retail.

 

[Thibsie]

Not sure selling a gtx1060 would be interesting as I'd need another gpu, then.

 

[Makaveli]

Not sure selling a gtx1060 would be interesting as I'd need another gpu, then.

I bought the new gpu first then sold old one not the other way around.So you will need the money to purchase the new gpu first. Found a reference 6800XT for $1500 CAD. Waiting to see what Zen 3d will look like next and if they only release a 5900 or 5950x with it I will move up on core count.

 

[Rigg]

Good test: When Pat Gelsinger proclaims that Intel gained performance leadership with Alder Lake, people will not start laughing.

Those are English words grouped together with a period at the end. I'm not clear on what thought they are trying to convey.

Yeah, AMD has a lot of experience in being an also run and having to cut prices.

See previous response.

But other times, there was nothing AMD could do. This time, they just let the performance leaderships slip away while they were napping or making a video.

Assumptions and speculation. I highly doubt you have any insight into how AMD makes business decisions.

It's not competition when one side has > 80% of market share. It's a miracle that AMD even survived. AMD would have been gone, broken up, sold for peanuts, if Intel did not make a long series of mistakes.

Unless you are an investor margins and market share should be of little concern. The price/performance of the products is all that consumers should be worried about. Intel and AMD have wildly different business models at this point in time. TSMC is intel's real competition. AMD's resurrection has as much to do with Dr. Su's leadership and mission statement (executing consistent incremental performance gains each generation) as it does with Intel's mistakes. Intel soiling the bed for several years certainly helped but Dr. Su and team still deserves a lot of credit for the massive performance gains in consumer desktop we've seen over the last few years.

 

[UsandThem]

Not that this is new in any way.
Did before. Will do it again.

I don't hang out in the CPU forum much, so I was kind of shocked at their post when I saw it (thinking they were simply being way too dramatic over CPUs).

But then I looked at their postings over the last few weeks, it was crystal clear why they are here spouting off (and what their goal is). I've been here over 20 years, I've seen posters like them come and go, and I'm not being sucked into their petty games. They aren't the first, and unfortunately they won't be the last.

If I want to argue over something, I'd hang out in P&N.

 

[DrMrLordX]

The ticket to keep enthusiasts happy buying 7nm CPUs was to introduce Zen3D in Q4 2021.

Nobody knows when AMD is going to release any product at all. We don't even know if Zen3D will hit the market, period, of if Zen4 will drop in April, or both, or . . . whatever.

Yeah Zen3D would be neat, but personally I would rather see them focus on Zen4 on the desktop.

Meanwhile, the idea that AMD has to have Zen3D out now, instead of November or December, is a bit stupid.

 

[biostud]

Why even bother with zen3D, when margins and demands for GPUs are at a record high?

If you have limited 7nm wafers and you are guaranteed to sell every GPU you make. Is there any reason to focus on CPUs in this market?

I can understand if AMD skips zen3D and goes directly to zen4.

 

[UsandThem]

Why even bother with zen3D, when margins and demands for GPUs are at a record high?

If you have limited 7nm wafers and you are guaranteed to sell every GPU you make. Is there any reason to focus on CPUs in this market?

For one, I don't think the motherboard manufacturers / OEMs would be very happy if AMD suddenly stopped producing CPUs.

That would be a very, very, very bad business decision.

 

[Zucker2k]

For one, I don't think the motherboard manufacturers / OEMs would be very happy if AMD suddenly stopped producing CPUs.

That would be a very, very, very bad business decision.

Not to mention, Lisa Su is on record saying Zen 3D will release later this year. Or, this no longer matters?

 

[jpiniero]

For one, I don't think the motherboard manufacturers / OEMs would be very happy if AMD suddenly stopped producing CPUs.

That would be a very, very, very bad business decision.

I would expect them to slow/stop Vermeer production by now though in favor of Zen 3D/Milan/Milan-X.