Info 64MB V-Cache on 5XXX Zen3 Average +15% in Games

[Kedas]

Well we know now how they will bridge the long wait to Zen4 on AM5 Q4 2022.
Production start for V-cache is end this year so too early for Zen4 so this is certainly coming to AM4.
+15% Lisa said is "like an entire architectural generation"

 

[deasd]

It seems AMD wanna directly release Zen3TR-3D next year instead of Zen3TR?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1443871802439176193

 

[Joe NYC]

It seems AMD wanna directly release Zen3TR-3D next year instead of Zen3TR?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1443871802439176193

That can't be true. @eek2121 reassured us there are Threadripper SKU planned with regular Zen 3 dies..

When I challenged him to show me a link, showing Threaddripper SKUs with regular Zen 3 dies, he declined.

When he realized he was caught posting BS, he made up this excuse:

If anyone besides you have asked, I would have provided. However, as you like to argue and post hundreds of forum posts, I will not be engaging in this discussion with you. Sorry.

And you may notice a few people cheered @eek2121 for his BS excuse following a BS claim.

 

[jpiniero]

That can't be true. @eek2121 reassured us there are Threadripper SKU planned with regular Zen 3 dies..

Given that it was supposed to be released by now it can't be using the 3D dies and they aren't going to switch just because of some unrelated delays.

 

[Joe NYC]

Given that it was supposed to be released by now it can't be using the 3D dies and they aren't going to switch just because of some unrelated delays.

I don't understand what you are saying here. Maybe this will help:

Any timing of Threadripper 5000x release was a speculation.

Perhaps the regular Zen 3 Threadripper was never planned or cancelled long time ago, when it turned out V-Cache is manufacturable (which would totally make sense, IMO). Then, there are no delays, instead, it is skipping a generation.

This is why I was surprised when @eek2121 posted this about current SKUs, and I asked for a link showing these SKUs.

Threadripper may have V-Cache in the future, but current SKUs planned for release do not have V-Cache

 

[Ajay]

It seems AMD wanna directly release Zen3TR-3D next year instead of Zen3TR?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1443871802439176193

Darn, I really wanted to see benches for Chagall - everything lately is wait, wait, wait...

 

[Mopetar]

Given that it was supposed to be released by now it can't be using the 3D dies and they aren't going to switch just because of some unrelated delays.

I think it's pretty fair to say that AMD is probably selling every Zen 3 chiplet it makes. There aren't enough to supply every market segment and Intel doesn't really have anything to compete against TR so AMD can afford to hold off on releasing anything for a while longer.

Plans change all of the time and with the pandemic it shouldn't be surprising to see major schedule slips or even canceled product lines.

 

[jpiniero]

I think it's pretty fair to say that AMD is probably selling every Zen 3 chiplet it makes. There aren't enough to supply every market segment and Intel doesn't really have anything to compete against TR so AMD can afford to hold off on releasing anything for a while longer.

That's certainly true. I suppose they could cancel the Zen 3 Threadripper and release a Zen 3D one eventually. But we would be talking a year from now and not a Q1 product.

 

[Joe NYC]

That's certainly true. I suppose they could cancel the Zen 3 Threadripper and release a Zen 3D one eventually. But we would be talking a year from now and not a Q1 product.

Where do you get a year from?

The point of potentially cancelling Zen 3 Threadripper and skipping a generation is that Threadripper 3D / XT is far less than 1 year away.

 

[A///]

Threadripper and to an extent Threadripper Pro products are a niche product line. Zen 2 based TR is plenty fast for most tasks. Epyc is far more important to AMD and I wouldn't be surprised they're focusing on dies for Epyc and not TR because Epyc is where the epic sales are from.

Sorry for the dad joke.

 

[jpiniero]

Where do you get a year from?

The idea is that they would skip a generation, yes. Threadripper makes the most sense as a dumping ground for the too-leaky-for-Epyc dies. Demand is going to drop for Zen 3 when Zen 3D ships; Zen 3D when Zen 4 ships, etc. So you use Threadripper to absorb the Epyc rejects instead of selling the old Ryzens at a discount. That's the idea anyway.

 

[A///]

Wait a second. I only now notice who that Tweet is from. Why would anyone give that birdbrain the time of day?

 

[Joe NYC]

The idea is that they would skip a generation, yes. Threadripper makes the most sense as a dumping ground for the too-leaky-for-Epyc dies. Demand is going to drop for Zen 3 when Zen 3D ships; Zen 3D when Zen 4 ships, etc. So you use Threadripper to absorb the Epyc rejects instead of selling the old Ryzens at a discount. That's the idea anyway.

That was the old pattern, where Threadripper was the last one to be released.

With the stated intention of putting Zen 3D into highest end products, suddenly, Threadripper jumps forward in priority. Because it is (supposed to be) the highest end product, demand is not sky high to need tremendous volume of Zen 3D product. So it can be launched among the early products of the Zen 3D generation.

 

[Joe NYC]

Wait a second. I only now notice who that Tweet is from. Why would anyone give that birdbrain the time of day?

It originally came from GreyMon - who called it a delay, not cancellation.

It's just a speculation on part of a few people that AMD could just as well skip the Zen 3 generation at this point...

 

[Joe NYC]

Some info on the new B2 stepping.

It seems that non-X is the 65W model, X is the 105W model, and there will be XT apparently in H1 2022, I guess with higher clocks.

I am guessing these will be the base of the 3D models as well...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1446252974355804162

 

[Joe NYC]

First CPU with B2 stepping tested. Just one CPU for now, but here are the conclusions from overclocking 5900x:

"It was the overclocker @KCcRtttu who was able to realize the changes when he wanted to "shake" the 5900X he had just obtained. He was able to push the 12 cores of this CPU to a frequency of 5150 MHz using liquid cooling. In comparison with the first version of the Ryzen 9 5900X (Stepping B0), he found that at the same frequency, the new model was 9ºC colder and it consumed 30W less."

Des "nouveaux" Ryzen avec un Stepping B2 en circulation ? - Overclocking.com

 

[deasd]

First CPU with B2 stepping tested. Just one CPU for now, but here are the conclusions from overclocking 5900x:

"It was the overclocker @KCcRtttu who was able to realize the changes when he wanted to "shake" the 5900X he had just obtained. He was able to push the 12 cores of this CPU to a frequency of 5150 MHz using liquid cooling. In comparison with the first version of the Ryzen 9 5900X (Stepping B0), he found that at the same frequency, the new model was 9ºC colder and it consumed 30W less."

Des "nouveaux" Ryzen avec un Stepping B2 en circulation ? - Overclocking.com

If true then it would be funny. There was an old news in May:

AMD Ryzen 5000 B2 Stepping CPUs Don't Bring Any Benefits

AMD Ryzen 5000 B2 Stepping CPUs Don't Bring Any Benefits

No functionality or performance improvements.

www.tomshardware.com

AMD has confirmed the statement to Tom's Hardware, and also provided an English-language translation:

"In continuous efforts to enhance our manufacturing and logistics capabilities, AMD is gradually transitioning the AMD Ryzen 5000 Series desktop processors to a 'B2' revision over the next 6 months. There are no feature, function, or performance enhancements to the B2 revision, and no BIOS update is required."

 

[Joe NYC]

If true then it would be funny. There was an old news in May:

AMD Ryzen 5000 B2 Stepping CPUs Don't Bring Any Benefits

AMD Ryzen 5000 B2 Stepping CPUs Don't Bring Any Benefits

No functionality or performance improvements.

www.tomshardware.com

What if the B2 stepping is on N6 node and supports 3D stacking better than B0 stepping? Then the statement from May would still be true and any performance of base gains would be incidental.

Just one of many possible explanations of this B2 stepping...

 

[deasd]

What if the B2 stepping is on N6 node and supports 3D stacking better than B0 stepping? Then the statement from May would still be true and any performance of base gains would be incidental.

Just one of many possible explanations of this B2 stepping...

5.15Ghz all cores under liquid(water?) cooling is a mind-blowing uplift if true. Maybe that statement in May means 'No IPC and default clocks uplift' lol.

 

[Joe NYC]

5.15Ghz all cores under liquid(water?) cooling is a mind-blowing uplift if true. Maybe that statement in May means 'No IPC and default clocks uplift' lol.

There is also supposed to be Zen 3 XT in 2022, which could be based on this same stepping...

 

[LightningZ71]

5.15Ghz all cores under liquid(water?) cooling is a mind-blowing uplift if true. Maybe that statement in May means 'No IPC and default clocks uplift' lol.

That's what I was getting at in another thread. While N6, and refinements of N7, don't bring a lot of maximum frequency uplift, they do seem to improve power characteristics notably. Improving that helps with thermals, which is where all-core frequencies appear to hit a wall. I've been expecting very little improvement in single core frequency, but significant gains in MT throughput.

 

[DrMrLordX]

What if the B2 stepping is on N6 node and supports 3D stacking better than B0 stepping? Then the statement from May would still be true and any performance of base gains would be incidental.

Just one of many possible explanations of this B2 stepping...

Uhhh

Does TSMC even support stacking on N6 yet? N5 isn't scheduled until Q4 2022.

 

[Asterox]

Hm, this makes no sense especially after earlier Computex presentation.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1447913872854192132

But it makes sense, if 3D V-Cache is too expensive+AMD intends to launch the Zen 4 Raphael APU earlier than expected.

 

[leoneazzurro]

It makes no sense at all, especially when the presentation was about the gaming benefits of V-Cache and the part shown was a desktop CPU. But if that was intended as "no V-cache for mainstream", it makes sense, as it is quite probable that AMD would reserve it for high-end machines.

Edit: just confirmed by AMD itself, "Ryzen product with V-cache in early 2022 in socket AM4"

time 8:20

 

[jpiniero]

Only thing that would make sense is if the TSMC price hikes wrecked their profit calculations and/or Milan-X is selling a lot better than they expected.

Edit: I think Yuko is confusing Warhol with Zen 3D.

 

[Asterox]

It makes no sense at all, especially when the presentation was about the gaming benefits of V-Cache and the part shown was a desktop CPU. But if that was intended as "no V-cache for mainstream", it makes sense, as it is quite probable that AMD would reserve it for high-end machines.

Edit: just confirmed by AMD itself, "Ryzen product with V-cache in early 2022 in socket AM4"

time 8:20

Ok confirmed, as usual only official information 100% filters "various rumors or information".