Info 64MB V-Cache on 5XXX Zen3 Average +15% in Games

[Kedas]

Well we know now how they will bridge the long wait to Zen4 on AM5 Q4 2022.
Production start for V-cache is end this year so too early for Zen4 so this is certainly coming to AM4.
+15% Lisa said is "like an entire architectural generation"

 

[Panino Manino]

Seeing all these benchmarks makes me lament that the current gen game consoles came with so little cache. That must hurt performance a lot.

I was planning to get one, since AMD enabled this tempting upgrade path for B350 chipset owners like me (currently running a Ryzen 1700). However, after seeing it losing to the vanilla 5800X in productivity applications — and in code compilation in particular (I am a programmer) — I changed my mind and now have the 5950X on my wish list instead

Then the 5800 series was never the CPU for you, it was always at least the 5900 and up.
Doesn't matter that the 58003D is a bit slower than the 5800X outside of games. For the people that this CPU is most target, owners of Zen 1 and Zen 2, even if the 58003D is a bit slower than the 5800X it'll still be a massive increase in performance. Zen 3 is much faster than Zen 2 at the point of making up for less cores, against Zen 1 there's no comparison.
For everyone that don't need the maximum number of core/threads available at the moment there are no, zero, absolute none downsides IMO.

 

[RnR_au]

Please some context I can't always just watch a video... 😔

My bad mate - sorry. Added a brief summary of the video to the post.

 

[epsilon84]

Seeing all these benchmarks makes me lament that the current gen game consoles came with so little cache. That must hurt performance a lot.

Then the 5800 series was never the CPU for you, it was always at least the 5900 and up.
Doesn't matter that the 58003D is a bit slower than the 5800X outside of games. For the people that this CPU is most target, owners of Zen 1 and Zen 2, even if the 58003D is a bit slower than the 5800X it'll still be a massive increase in performance. Zen 3 is much faster than Zen 2 at the point of making up for less cores, against Zen 1 there's no comparison.
For everyone that don't need the maximum number of core/threads available at the moment there are no, zero, absolute none downsides IMO.

Price? Even for Zen 1/2 owners, you have to weigh up whether its worth the asking price, or if a regular Zen 3 chip that is still a fantastic upgrade from Zen 1/2 will be enough.

Case in point - upgrading from a 1600 to 5600 will net you 1.5x - 2.0x the gaming performance (when CPU bound). Thats a $200 upgrade. Sure, a 5800X3D will take that up a notch further, but the 5600 already gets you 80% of the gains at less than *half* the price, $200 vs $450.

Breaking it down, as someone looking to upgrade for gaming purposes from Zen 1, with a 1600 as a 1.0x baseline:
R5 1600 - 1.0x
R5 5600 - 1.75x $200
5800X3D - 2.0x $450

The cheaper Zen 3 is the clear value play here.

The 5800X3D has its place in upper midrange to top end gaming systems running higher end GPUs. But its pricetag simply excludes it as the best deal for a lot of upgraders IMO.

 

[Shmee]

Price? Even for Zen 1/2 owners, you have to weigh up whether its worth the asking price, or if a regular Zen 3 chip that is still a fantastic upgrade from Zen 1/2 will be enough.

Case in point - upgrading from a 1600 to 5600 will net you 1.5x - 2.0x the gaming performance (when CPU bound). Thats a $200 upgrade. Sure, a 5800X3D will take that up a notch further, but the 5600 already gets you 80% of the gains at less than *half* the price, $200 vs $450.

Breaking it down, as someone looking to upgrade for gaming purposes from Zen 1, with a 1600 as a 1.0x baseline:
R5 1600 - 1.0x
R5 5600 - 1.75x $200
5800X3D - 2.0x $450

The cheaper Zen 3 is the clear value play here.

The 5800X3D has its place in upper midrange to top end gaming systems running higher end GPUs. But its pricetag simply excludes it as the best deal for a lot of upgraders IMO.

I assume you meant 5600X? And where are you finding it for $200? I see it new for about $230 in several places though.

I tend to agree, that the 5800X3D is a bit much, I would say the ideal upgrade for an R5 1600, or even a Zen+ 2600X, or Zen 2 3600, would be the upcoming 5700X. It should be $299 or less, with deals here and there.

 

[Timorous]

What kind of GPU will you be running with a 450W PSU? Even with a 5800X3D only taking ~70W that really doesn't leave a lot of room for anything much higher than say a 3060 without pushing the limits of the PSU. Don't forget you have to power your mobo/RAM/storage/peripherals as well.

Would it not make sense to upgrade the PSU to give you some peace of mind and room to upgrade to faster GPUs?

Good luck with your purchase though, hope stock levels are decent at launch.

6600XT but I play a lot of strategy games and other titles where FPS is fine even at 4k but simulation speed slows.

Will do a PSU upgrade when I upgrade the GPU next year sometime.

 

[krumme]

Besides pure performance it's just impressive how efficient Zen3 with V-Cache is.

I'm just excited for the next Ryzen CPUs. Zen4, new Node with TSMC N5, probably paired with V-Cache. Just let me dream!

I think the blast will be zen 5. Clarke youtube interview, completely new arch. Perhaps real multilayer cpu, notno ky cache? That would be a fundamental transistion on how they can be designed and layout.

Sendt fra min SM-T970 med Tapatalk

 

[Timorous]

Price? Even for Zen 1/2 owners, you have to weigh up whether its worth the asking price, or if a regular Zen 3 chip that is still a fantastic upgrade from Zen 1/2 will be enough.

Case in point - upgrading from a 1600 to 5600 will net you 1.5x - 2.0x the gaming performance (when CPU bound). Thats a $200 upgrade. Sure, a 5800X3D will take that up a notch further, but the 5600 already gets you 80% of the gains at less than *half* the price, $200 vs $450.

Breaking it down, as someone looking to upgrade for gaming purposes from Zen 1, with a 1600 as a 1.0x baseline:
R5 1600 - 1.0x
R5 5600 - 1.75x $200
5800X3D - 2.0x $450

The cheaper Zen 3 is the clear value play here.

The 5800X3D has its place in upper midrange to top end gaming systems running higher end GPUs. But its pricetag simply excludes it as the best deal for a lot of upgraders IMO.

I will be keeping it for 5 years unless something stunning comes out around zen 5 / meteor lake.

I expect 1 or 2 GPU upgrades in that time so I will be exceeding 3080 tier performance on the GPU before I retire it.

While the 5600 is the value play 5800X3D is not so far into diminishing returns that I mind paying extra for that performance. Also it is over 30% faster in a lot of titles that are similar to oned I play.

 

[krumme]

I only have a 450W PSU (Seasonic though so pretty good) so those power consumption charts are great.

This is day 1 for me provided there is enough stock.

Same here. All rigs is made using small platinum ps and a lean cpu and gpu is paramount. Thinking of upgrading all am4 to this as gaming is most important factor by far.

Sendt fra min SM-T970 med Tapatalk

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Energy is only wasted in the summer time, in winter you just add some electrical heating to the mix.

Pure electrical heating is somewhat inefficient compared to running that electricity though a heatpump. But if you're doing something on your computer, then yeah, bonus heat.

As to summer, you may need to remove a bit more heat with AC, but on the bright side solar energy is running at full blast. Yes, both puns were intended.

 

[krumme]

You don't need DDR5 on the 12700K either, just put a good 3600 CL16 kit and maybe tweak to 3800-4000 (that's close to the DR limit anyway). It takes a very low latency DDR5 kit to beat that.

The 5800X3D is one heck of a way to end AM4 with a bang, excellent upgrade path for anyone running Zen1/Zen2 CPUs or people wanting to buy AMD in particular. It also puts to shame the 12900KS, there's a somewhat sour taste to be had for the gaming enthusiast who buys the Intel flagship, pairs it with the best memory kit money can buy, and may or may not get the best performance in all titles. That being said, it does little to change the strong value proposition of 12700K. Get a decent 3600+ memory kit, put a proper 125-150W power limit in place like a sane person, and obtain arguably better application performance & very close (if not identical) gaming performance. It's arguably a better all-round CPU, just like the 5800X3D is arguably the better gaming CPU.

In a way, AMD was shrewd to call the 5800X3D the fastest gaming CPU. This set the online conversation on the path they wanted, a comparison with the 12900K alone. Even if they "lose" the aggregated score by a few percent, it's still a win:

• value comparison leans heavily in favor of AMD
• 12900K wins on a technicality when every premium buyer wants the vigorous knockout

If I had to chose today between 12700K and 5800X3D I would be very conflicted.

We have 2 rigs running am4 3600 with 3200 and 3000 ram. A 5800x3d mitigates the slow ram. Its simply a fantastic upgrade in those scenario.

Sendt fra min SM-T970 med Tapatalk

 

[epsilon84]

I assume you meant 5600X? And where are you finding it for $200? I see it new for about $230 in several places though.

I tend to agree, that the 5800X3D is a bit much, I would say the ideal upgrade for an R5 1600, or even a Zen+ 2600X, or Zen 2 3600, would be the upcoming 5700X. It should be $299 or less, with deals here and there.

I meant the 5600, but the 5600X is only $30 more so the same argument applies.

The 5600 is widely available for $285 AUD where I live, and after conversion its ~$211 USD, so close enough to the MSRP. We do generally have to pay more for hardware here in Australia thanks to shipping costs and being so far away from the rest of the world!

 

[epsilon84]

I will be keeping it for 5 years unless something stunning comes out around zen 5 / meteor lake.

I expect 1 or 2 GPU upgrades in that time so I will be exceeding 3080 tier performance on the GPU before I retire it.

While the 5600 is the value play 5800X3D is not so far into diminishing returns that I mind paying extra for that performance. Also it is over 30% faster in a lot of titles that are similar to oned I play.

If you plan on keeping a CPU for 5 years, then definitely that's the right move. I only recently upgraded from a 8700K and it too went through 3 GPU upgrades so I know exactly what you mean. In your case buying the best you can afford makes the most sense with 5 years in mind.

For a lot of others running mid range GPUs though, I still think the 5600 is a fantastic option for Zen 1 and Zen 2 owners.

 

[Timorous]

If you plan on keeping a CPU for 5 years, then definitely that's the right move. I only recently upgraded from a 8700K and it too went through 3 GPU upgrades so I know exactly what you mean. In your case buying the best you can afford makes the most sense with 5 years in mind.

For a lot of others running mid range GPUs though, I still think the 5600 is a fantastic option for Zen 1 and Zen 2 owners.

I don't disagree, especially as something to hold them over until DDR5 becomes reasonably priced.

I also have a suspicion that the 5800X3D will probably hold its value better like the 5775C did because it does so well in some games. That is just speculation though so will have to wait and see.

 

[Abwx]

Dual review at Computerbase, first is the usual tests :

AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D im Test

Der AMD Ryzen 5800X3D bringt erstmals gestapelten L3-Cache. Der bringt bis zu 40 Prozent mehr Leistung, bleibt aber dennoch ein Spezialist.

www.computerbase.de

And an indepth gaming comparison with other CPUs :

AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D im Gaming-Benchmark

Wie schnell ist der AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D mit 64 MB großem 3D V-Cache in Spielen? Der Test mit RTX 3090 Ti gegen 5800X, 12900K und 12900KS.

www.computerbase.de

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I don't disagree, especially as something to hold them over until DDR5 becomes reasonably priced.

I also have a suspicion that the 5800X3D will probably hold its value better like the 5775C did because it does so well in some games. That is just speculation though so will have to wait and see.

I was going to say to put me down as bearish on it holding value. But seeing as I paid $100 for a NIB FX 8350 last year; there is always some idiot that will pay too much.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Zen 4 seems like an exaggeration but if it turns out to be true...

 

[igor_kavinski]

@nicalandia

19-1080.8b5d1339.png (1691×950) (computerbase.de)

AMD is officially pitting the 5800X3D against i9-12900K. They really must view Alder Lake as a threat.

 

[DrMrLordX]

They really must view Alder Lake as a threat.

Not sure how that follows.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Not sure how that follows.

Previously they were comparing to Zen 3 CPUs only. Alder Lake sales must be making them nervous.

 

[nicalandia]

Previously they were comparing to Zen 3 CPUs only. Alder Lake sales must be making them nervous.

What? They compared it against a 12900K since Day One. There are slides that go back to when they showed us the 5900X3D Prototype

 

[epsilon84]

What? They compared it against a 12900K since Day One. There are slides that go back to when they showed us the 5900X3D Prototype

I don't recall those old slides? Do you have a link? I only remember the ones where it was compared against a 5900X and AMD claimed it would be 15% faster in gaming. I'd say they more or less matched this 15% claim based on the reviews and data available.

It is us, the enthusiasts and forum gurus who then did estimates on how that would compare to a 12900K based on that 15% claim.

 

[nicalandia]

Actually AMD never compared it to Intel in previous slides. It was compared against a 5900X and AMD claimed it would be 15% faster in gaming. I'd say they more or less matched this 15% claim based on the reviews and data available.

It is us, the enthusiasts and forum gurus who then did estimates on how that would compare to a 12900K based on that 15% claim.

Have you gone Senile or something? Let me pull the Old Slides

 

[nicalandia]

AMD is officially pitting the 5800X3D against i9-12900K. They really must view Alder Lake as a threat.

They have been doing that since the 5800X3D official announcement on January 2022

It is us, the enthusiasts and forum gurus who then did estimates on how that would compare to a 12900K based on that 15% claim.

Well when the 5900X3D Prototype was shown the 12900K was not even released yet(The 3D V-Cache announcement was on May 2021 and 12900K was released on November 2021), But at the 5800X3D announcement on January 2022 they did compare it with the 12900K and call it as The Best Gaming Processor. So this is nothing that just happened within the last two days. Now that the NDA have been lifted they can show us more official benchmarks

 

[Panino Manino]

The 5800X3D has its place in upper midrange to top end gaming systems running higher end GPUs. But its pricetag simply excludes it as the best deal for a lot of upgraders IMO.

It IS the "best deal" for anyone not looking at "sweet spot" CPUs.
To have the 58003D's performance you have two choices: pay $450 for it or pay the double for the alternatives.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

AMD is officially pitting the 5800X3D against i9-12900K. They really must view Alder Lake as a threat.

I am going to ask you a question -

How do you say you have the fastest gaming CPU, then not compare it to 12th gen? Take all the time you need.