Info 64MB V-Cache on 5XXX Zen3 Average +15% in Games

[Kedas]

Well we know now how they will bridge the long wait to Zen4 on AM5 Q4 2022.
Production start for V-cache is end this year so too early for Zen4 so this is certainly coming to AM4.
+15% Lisa said is "like an entire architectural generation"

 

[eek2121]

Are we just going to pretend no other Intel CPU exists that uses less than 186W? My 12900K feels neglected...

Seriously though, those are some great efficiency figures. The problem is that high end GPUs are soaring past 400W these days... saving a few watts off the CPU is hardly going to affect your power bill.

I am not trying to be political, however power consumption is a huge issue for Intel as well as NVIDIA (and to a lesser extent AMD).

If PC components used less power, perhaps countries wouldn’t have to rely as much on countries such as Russia for their energy needs.

Intel in particular needs to get their act together. NVIDIA faces blame as well for pushing Samsung’s process well beyond efficiency limits.

If a gamer averages 2 hours of gaming a day, 5 days a week, that is a considerable amount of energy wasted. Hopefully we see improvements going forward.

Yeah, I'd agree. IMO the 5800X3D is a good 'proof of concept' CPU. I'm far more excited about what AMD can do with this tech going forward with Zen 4 and DDR5. Imagine Intel with the DDR5 advantage nullified!

Imagine what a Zen 4 with v-cache will look like! Hopefully we eventually get one.

I wonder how many will be available considering the supply competition from Milan X.

But I shall not FOMO myself into a rash decision. Nope. Definitely not.

AMD is rumored to be making 50,000 per quarter initially.

What we need is a complete test suite with LOWs.
I think that his is even more important to know.

Lows are improved in many games according to Gamers Nexus.

This release reminds me of the Athlon 64 x2 release as well as the K6-2/K6-3 release.

 

[biostud]

I am not trying to be political, however power consumption is a huge issue for Intel as well as NVIDIA (and to a lesser extent AMD).

If PC components used less power, perhaps countries wouldn’t have to rely as much on countries such as Russia for their energy needs.

Intel in particular needs to get their act together. NVIDIA faces blame as well for pushing Samsung’s process well beyond efficiency limits.

If a gamer averages 2 hours of gaming a day, 5 days a week, that is a considerable amount of energy wasted. Hopefully we see improvements going forward.




Imagine what a Zen 4 with v-cache will look like! Hopefully we eventually get one.



AMD is rumored to be making 50,000 per quarter initially.



Lows are improved in many games according to Gamers Nexus.

This release reminds me of the Athlon 64 x2 release as well as the K6-2/K6-3 release.

Energy is only wasted in the summer time, in winter you just add some electrical heating to the mix.

 

[Mopetar]

Imagine what a Zen 4 with v-cache will look like! Hopefully we eventually get one.

The HUB review had results for both 3200 and 3800 DDR4 memory and although it wasn't a massive difference, there was still some benefit from the faster memory.

I don't think we'll see a v-cache Zen 4 out of the gate though. AMD will probably hold it back just to counter Intel if necessary. They may also want to spend more time working with it so that they don't have to cap the voltage and limit clocks as with Zen 3D.

 

[nicalandia]

Has anyone tested it with mid-range GPUs to see if there's much of a benefit for anyone who isn't running a beefy 3080 or a Ti card?

The 3080 was the bottleneck at 1440P and 4K

 

[coercitiv]

Back to our discussion, a 12700K (DDR5-5200) is right on the heels of a 5800X3D (the lows are relatively stronger on the 12700K too it seems)

You don't need DDR5 on the 12700K either, just put a good 3600 CL16 kit and maybe tweak to 3800-4000 (that's close to the DR limit anyway). It takes a very low latency DDR5 kit to beat that.

The 5800X3D is one heck of a way to end AM4 with a bang, excellent upgrade path for anyone running Zen1/Zen2 CPUs or people wanting to buy AMD in particular. It also puts to shame the 12900KS, there's a somewhat sour taste to be had for the gaming enthusiast who buys the Intel flagship, pairs it with the best memory kit money can buy, and may or may not get the best performance in all titles. That being said, it does little to change the strong value proposition of 12700K. Get a decent 3600+ memory kit, put a proper 125-150W power limit in place like a sane person, and obtain arguably better application performance & very close (if not identical) gaming performance. It's arguably a better all-round CPU, just like the 5800X3D is arguably the better gaming CPU.

In a way, AMD was shrewd to call the 5800X3D the fastest gaming CPU. This set the online conversation on the path they wanted, a comparison with the 12900K alone. Even if they "lose" the aggregated score by a few percent, it's still a win:

• value comparison leans heavily in favor of AMD
• 12900K wins on a technicality when every premium buyer wants the vigorous knockout

If I had to chose today between 12700K and 5800X3D I would be very conflicted.

 

[StinkyPinky]

I'd be controversial and say I'd choose the 12700K over the 5800X3D if I was building an entire PC. It's cheaper and can boost higher.

5800X3D is a great option for those on older Zen cpu's though.

 

[nicalandia]

I'd be controversial and say I'd choose the 12700K over the 5800X3D if I was building an entire PC. It's cheaper and can boost higher.

5800X3D is a great option for those on older Zen cpu's though.

I would say go with the12600K because it beats the 12900K on many benchmarks on TPU

 

[JoeRambo]

I'd be controversial and say I'd choose the 12700K over the 5800X3D if I was building an entire PC. It's cheaper and can boost higher.

I don't get why it is controversial. 5800X3D is GREAT CPU for gaming out of box. If user does anything other than gaming and/or is willing to put time in tuning, 8C of Alder Lake beats it hand down both in low threaded disciplines like web browsing, desktop usage and also in high threaded disciplines like rendering.
AMD's decision to limit clocks to 4.5ghz means an uphill battle everywhere where ADL cache is already enough and at the end of the day ADL has stronger and more modern core.

 

[exquisitechar]

If I had to chose today between 12700K and 5800X3D I would be very conflicted.

Definitely. I think the 5800X3D is primarily a good option for AM4 owners who want an upgrade. I know a few of those people who have no need for over 8 cores and are very interested in it. Other people, who also don't urgently need a new PC, are probably better off waiting for Zen 4 than buying into a dead platform. ADL-S is a good all around option.

 

[lobz]

This is the price is no object king right???

Otherwise either of these is kind of dumb overkill for gaming.

You could drop in a $200 CPU in these gaming rigs and no one could tell the difference without looking at a frame counter.

Have you ever played a game other than solitaire?

 

[DrMrLordX]

exactly! this CPU (or rather, CPUs with 3D V-cache) should be in consoles where gaming is the main focus and resolution isnt very high (yet)

Nah, consoles are better-served by massive APUs at this time. Maybe AMD will eventually integrate a huge cache into console APUs for the next gen, but if they do, it won't look like the 5800X3D.

That aside

For the price + platform price, the 5800X3D is a ridiculous value for gamers that arguably delivers top-tier performance, even with lowly DDR4-3200. For anything else . . . meh?

 

[Topweasel]

Nah, consoles are better-served by massive APUs at this time. Maybe AMD will eventually integrate a huge cache into console APUs for the next gen, but if they do, it won't look like the 5800X3D.

That aside

For the price + platform price, the 5800X3D is a ridiculous value for gamers that arguably delivers top-tier performance, even with lowly DDR4-3200. For anything else . . . meh?

There is a weird balance there isn't it. If all you care about is gaming. It's $450 vs. $600 and $900 and is basically there in anything that doesn't run at insane FPS anyways (CSgo). There are a bunch of reasons to get a 12700k, 12900k, 5900x, or even a vanilla 5800x over it. I personally wouldn't build a new system behind it because I would know nothing (maybe even power supply the way things are shaping up) could be carried over with a new platform on the way. But someone who hoped onto a 2700x, 3800x, or 3900x and wanting to maximize their system without doing a conversion for a CPU that should last several years in games (like you would hope a 12900k would). Its super cost effect for doing so. Or if you were building a new system today and wanted to absolutely min max cost to get the "best" performance. This and a 6900xt would cost so much less than trying to get a 12900ks, DDR5, and a 3080ti or higher. Both it and the RDNA2 are not great in quite a many things. Maybe even bad values for anything but pure gaming. But if completely zoomed into just games there is some value there.

 

[eek2121]

The HUB review had results for both 3200 and 3800 DDR4 memory and although it wasn't a massive difference, there was still some benefit from the faster memory.

I don't think we'll see a v-cache Zen 4 out of the gate though. AMD will probably hold it back just to counter Intel if necessary. They may also want to spend more time working with it so that they don't have to cap the voltage and limit clocks as with Zen 3D.

Of course we won’t see it right away, or even this year, however, hopefully they will get the kinks worked out of the design before we do see another release.

The fact the 5800X3D clocks several hundred MHz lower (I believe GN had it clocking at 4325 MHz vs 4700 for the 5800X) while providing similar performance tells me it actually DOES help in quite a few non gaming workloads, however the reduction in clocks cancels it out.

If this chip ran at the speeds of a 5950X, It would likely completely dominate everything else.

 

[nicalandia]

OC Results for 4.7 Ghz. Will be pulling the info for the 4.9 Ghz when available.

I pulled the best screenshots from the Video. Impressive Performance(Mostly from Productivity)

Stock Performance and Prime Testing with AVX enabled.





OC Results Also with Prime AVX

 

[epsilon84]

I only have a 450W PSU (Seasonic though so pretty good) so those power consumption charts are great.

This is day 1 for me provided there is enough stock.

What kind of GPU will you be running with a 450W PSU? Even with a 5800X3D only taking ~70W that really doesn't leave a lot of room for anything much higher than say a 3060 without pushing the limits of the PSU. Don't forget you have to power your mobo/RAM/storage/peripherals as well.

Would it not make sense to upgrade the PSU to give you some peace of mind and room to upgrade to faster GPUs?

Good luck with your purchase though, hope stock levels are decent at launch.

 

[RnR_au]

Edit: A rant by buildzoid. He is not happy that AMD chose to limit overclocking. "This is really dumb" and "I'm really annoyed". He won't be getting one.

He says that even on 1.35v the cpu should be able to do 4.5 all core overclocks rather than just 4.5Ghz boost. He states that Ryzen cores tend not to scale beyond 1.3v anyways, so the vcache silicon is not special in that way.

He believes that AMD should have lowered the thermal shutdown limit from 115deg to something lower to safeguard the vcache functionality.

 

[lobz]

Please some context I can't always just watch a video... 😔

 

[Vattila]

I'm curious if anyone here is actually planning to get a 5800X3D?

I was planning to get one, since AMD enabled this tempting upgrade path for B350 chipset owners like me (currently running a Ryzen 1700). However, after seeing it losing to the vanilla 5800X in productivity applications — and in code compilation in particular (I am a programmer) — I changed my mind and now have the 5950X on my wish list instead, besides another 2 x 8 GB of DDR4 RAM.

But, then I saw these Microsoft Flight Simulator results from Linus Tech Tips' review (although I am not a gamer, I am a veteran ex-flight-simmer, considering rekindling my interest). It shows an awesome 41% gain in average frame rate over the vanilla 5800X! That is even 22% beyond Intel's flagship, the 12900KS — whose average frame rate sits around 5800X3Ds 1% slowest frames. Wow!

 

[lightmanek]

From Polish PurePC review:

PurePC 5800X3D Review

Many more tests in the article, but I wanted to add to the post above as Assetto Corsa is also a Sim, but with less flying than FS
Test done with 50 cars on Spa Francorchamps track. The jump in performance from 5800X to 5800X3D is staggering!

 

[Shmee]

OC Results for 4.7 Ghz. Will be pulling the info for the 4.9 Ghz when available.

I pulled the best screenshots from the Video. Impressive Performance(Mostly from Productivity)

Stock Performance and Prime Testing with AVX enabled.
View attachment 60055

View attachment 60056


OC Results Also with Prime AVX

View attachment 60057


View attachment 60058

Wait, so you CAN OC these after all? How does that work?

 

[MadRat]

They need a CRICUT benchmark to attract the ladies.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Wait, so you CAN OC these after all? How does that work?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1514063342440116229

Doesn't look so simple and you give up using NVMe.

 

[gdansk]

it does so amazingly well in certain games (Flight Simulator, Assetto Corsa, Factorio) that it may well be ahead of even future Zen 4 chips without vcache for them

 

[moinmoin]

it does so amazingly well in certain games (Flight Simulator, Assetto Corsa, Factorio) that it may well be ahead of even future Zen 4 chips without vcache for them

Very likely the case indeed. 5800X3D will be pretty much future proof for all the cases where the huge cache makes a significant difference. And standard Zen 4 isn't going to match or pass 96MB in cache. Who knows if and when there'll be consumer X3D versions of Zen 4 chips.

 

[epsilon84]

Has anyone tested it with mid-range GPUs to see if there's much of a benefit for anyone who isn't running a beefy 3080 or a Ti card?

With mid range GPUs, you don't need a 5800X3D.

A $200 12400 / 5600 is more than enough to max out a 3060 and at most times a 3070: https://www.techspot.com/review/2448-amd-ryzen-5600-vs-intel-core-i5-12400f/

3080 and up will see benefits from a 5800X3D, though that will also depend on your resolution and game settings.

I think as a general rule of thumb - for a mid range GPU, its best pair it with a mid range CPU.

I was planning to get one, since AMD enabled this tempting upgrade path for B350 chipset owners like me (currently running a Ryzen 1700). However, after seeing it losing to the vanilla 5800X in productivity applications — and in code compilation in particular (I am a programmer) — I changed my mind and now have the 5950X on my wish list instead, besides another 2 x 8 GB of DDR4 RAM. However, then I saw these Microsoft Flight Simulator results from Linus Tech Tips' review (although I am not a gamer, I am a veteran ex-flight-simmer, considering rekindling my interest). It shows an awesome 41% gain in average frame rate over the vanilla 5800X! That is even 22% beyond Intel's flagship, the 12900KS — whose average frame rate sits around 5800X3Ds 1% slowest frames. Wow!

View attachment 60061

It seems to do mighty fine in MSFS! Very impressive. But if compilation performance is important to you I still would get the 5950X over it. I'll think you'll appreciate the much better compile times, after all time is money

I've played around with FS a bit just flying over my own city, and if there is a game you really don't need 100fps for, it is this one (RTS games also apply here). Unless you're right up close to the ground, the terrain moves so gradually underneath you that even at 60fps the experience is surreal (with max settings and HDR).
Do keep in mind those results are at 1080P and would naturally bunch up at higher res. I'd argue that MSFS is one of those games that requires a 1440P panel at a minimum to truly appreciate the graphics, FHD doesn't do it justice. It looks truly stunning on my 3440x1440 ultrawide. I might have to try it on my 4K OLED TV!