Question 64GB on AM4 Platform?

[Atif]

Hello Everyone!

I'm doing a build almost exclusively for use with Adobe's video and photo editing software and having 64GB of RAM (4 x 16GB, double sided Samsung B Die) was a salient feature of it. I was pretty dead set on building on the AM4 platform (as opposed to the much more costly TR platform). As I'm now at the point where MB + CPU are the last items left to buy, I'm finding a dearth of info regarding motherboard choices to take advantage of 64GB of double sided Samsung B Die at speeds in excess of 2933MHz.

Obviously, the upcoming release of Ryzen 3 + X570 motherboards may completely change things, but looking strictly at what's currently in stores - is 64GB of double sided memory do-able on the AM4 platform at say, speeds of 3200MHz? If so, what motherboard do you recommend?

Here's the part list to this point:

CPU - not yet purchased - AMD Ryzen 7 3700X if I have to wait for X570

Motherboard - not yet purchased - ???

Videocard - MSI AERO ITX GeForce GTX 1070

RAM - G.SKILL Ripjaws V F4-3000C14Q-64GVK (4 x 16GB double sided Samsung B Die kit)

SSD - ADATA XPG SX8200 Pro PCIe NVMe Gen3x4 M.2 2280 1TB SSD (ASX8200PNP-1TT-C)

Power Supply - Corsair RM1000i 1000W

Operating System - Microsoft Windows 10 Professional

Thank you for sharing your insights and experience!

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Appears many if not all X570 boards will be capable of 128GB. Some will be so at launch, others *may* get a bios update to make 128GB possible.

 

[Atif]

^ so forego all the currently available motherboard offerings and go with an X570 option instead (once available)?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

^ so forego all the currently available motherboard offerings and go with an X570 option instead (once available)?

If you want the maximum amount of memory then yes.
Really hard to plan a system when there are no reviews of the CPUs and motherboards.
Smart thing to do is wait

 

[Insert_Nickname]

The ASUS Pro WS X570-ACE can do a 128GB setup. I have a feeling it won't be cheap however.

https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Pro-WS-X570-ACE/specifications/

But if you're spending that kind of money, I think you'll be better served by going TR4. Which is available immediately. Plus you get 60 PCIe lanes as a bonus.

 

[DrMrLordX]

@Atif

Memory supported is a combination of the CPU's integrated memory controller (IMC), the UEFI microcode on the board, and the number of available DIMM slots.

It appears as though the new IMC on 3xxx-series Ryzen chips - not the Picasso APUs, but the Matisse CPUs - can handle up to 32GB per RAM slot for a total of up to 128GB. What kind of performance you will get populating all slots with 32GB DIMMs is a complete unknown. Older Ryzen chips (and presumably Picasso) only support 16GB per slot, and if you populate all four slots with 16GB DIMMs, you get horrendous performance. Think DDR4-1866!

We need to see some reports on how newer Ryzen chips handle high-density DIMMs. It is also possible that X470 and maybe even X370 boards will support 128GB of RAM with Matisse with a proper UEFI update.

 

[thigobr]

I think Ryzen supports 32GB unbuffered DIMMs (unofficially of course).

Anyone has experiences with the new 16gb (gigabit, 16 of these make a 32GB module) based modules from Samsung/Micron? Samsung is already on the market with M-Die chips
https://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=D432G266S1

I am not sure if I should wait for the new A-Die chips and also check the new Micron high densities... I saw some comments on them achieving 4000MHz.

 

[DrMrLordX]

@thigobr

Are these newer chips on 10x or 10y? If they are 10y then I can see them hitting higher clocks than b-die.

 

[VirtualLarry]

https://www.newegg.com/oloy-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820821054

$99 for a 32GB kit (2x16GB) of DDR4-2667 RAM, unknown chip mfg. Anyone want to take a chance, buy two of those kits, and see if they will run in a Ryzen R5 1600 rig? I'll probably do that next month myself.

 

[thigobr]

@thigobr

Are these newer chips on 10x or 10y? If they are 10y then I can see them hitting higher clocks than b-die.

Yes, the new chips are 10y... I believe they will clock at least similar the problem might be tight timings :/

 

[DrMrLordX]

Yes, the new chips are 10y... I believe they will clock at least similar the problem might be tight timings :/

Hmm, interesting. Meanwhile, binned b-die is getting more expensive, not less. I got my DDR4-4400 during Black Friday off eBay for $280. Cheapest I can get it now is around $440? The thought of me getting another 2x8GB at some point is becoming less attractive.

 

[Atif]

@DrMrLordX what capacity did you pick up for $280?

 

[DrMrLordX]

@Atif

I got 2x8GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4-4400. Someone was selling it on eBay last November. I don't expect to see prices like that again.

It's part # CMK16GX4M2K4400C19 fwiw

 

[thigobr]

Those super binned b-die might be getting more expensive but 3000MHz/3200MHz are getting cheaper still
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/BZwqqs/gskill-memory-f43200c14d32gvk
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/qpH48d/gskill-memory-f43000c14d32gvr

 

[Atif]

Thank you all for your feedback and input. I went with a Threadripper 1950X and ASRock X399 Taichi motherboard. Currently have the G.SKILL dual rank 4 x 16GB kit at 3133 doing 14-14-14 stable in a quad channel configuration. Hopefully I can continue tuning and get to that 3200 goal for this quad channel kit.

Very happy thus far with what we are seeing!

 

[DrMrLordX]

Enjoy your build. First-gen Threadrippers will continue plugging away for years to come, I imagine. The chips are still good at what they do.

 

[PingSpike]

Hmm, interesting. Meanwhile, binned b-die is getting more expensive, not less. I got my DDR4-4400 during Black Friday off eBay for $280. Cheapest I can get it now is around $440? The thought of me getting another 2x8GB at some point is becoming less attractive.

Even garden variety b-die sells for almost double the price of mid-tier 3200/16. It was questionable to me when it was at 50% premium. Prices keep going down on this stuff but the spread is stubbornly high.

How likely do you think it is I could run 4x16 of crucial ballistix 3200/16 at 3000?

 

[Atif]

Even garden variety b-die sells for almost double the price of mid-tier 3200/16. It was questionable to me when it was at 50% premium. Prices keep going down on this stuff but the spread is stubbornly high.

How likely do you think it is I could run 4x16 of crucial ballistix 3200/16 at 3000?

What motherboard are you intending to use?

 

[PingSpike]

What motherboard are you intending to use?

MSI x470 Gaming Plus.

I feel like its a long shot.

 

[DrMrLordX]

How likely do you think it is I could run 4x16 of crucial ballistix 3200/16 at 3000?

I learned a little bit about older AM4 boards looking at x570. There are at least two types of DIMM trace layouts that I've identified - "daisy chain" and "T-topology". Apparently T-topology is better if you're going to try to populate all four DIMM slots. I'm not sure if that MSI board uses T-topology. You might be able to do some research and find out.

As to whether it will work @ DDR4-3000? I can't say. I would say "no" with Summit Ridge or Pinnacle Ridge. Matisse is a big question mark. It has twice the RAM capacity as the older chips, so if I had to guess, I would say you would run about the same as 2x16GB on Summit Ridge/Pinnacle Ridge. Maybe DDR4-3000 would be doable on a T-topology board.

 

[nenforcer]

Whatever you do wait until July 7th when the X570 and Ryzen 3000 series CPU are out. With the reviews we will know what memory speeds and it what quantity the will support. Its only a couple of weeks away now.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I learned a little bit about older AM4 boards looking at x570. There are at least two types of DIMM trace layouts that I've identified - "daisy chain" and "T-topology". Apparently T-topology is better if you're going to try to populate all four DIMM slots. I'm not sure if that MSI board uses T-topology. You might be able to do some research and find out.

As to whether it will work @ DDR4-3000? I can't say. I would say "no" with Summit Ridge or Pinnacle Ridge. Matisse is a big question mark. It has twice the RAM capacity as the older chips, so if I had to guess, I would say you would run about the same as 2x16GB on Summit Ridge/Pinnacle Ridge. Maybe DDR4-3000 would be doable on a T-topology board.

I’ve heard about that t topology thing here or on toms years ago. Great reminder & thanks for the find!
My very brief research is Asus is a big supporter of the idea but no X570 info, appears all of Asrock’s X470 boards were t topology

Take above with a grain of salt just some very brief googling.

 

[DrMrLordX]

All I've heard is that x570 will feature a lot of daisy chain designs. MSI is allegedly going daisy chain across their entire x570 lineup. Asus C6H was T-topology but C7H was daisy chain. More than that, I don't know.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

All I've heard is that x570 will feature a lot of daisy chain designs. MSI is allegedly going daisy chain across their entire x570 lineup. Asus C6H was T-topology but C7H was daisy chain. More than that, I don't know.

Yeah, I read during my research daisy chain is better for 2 dims t topology is better for 4 dims.
I think latency is lower with Daisy chain and 2 dims plus its easier to design.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

All I've heard is that x570 will feature a lot of daisy chain designs. MSI is allegedly going daisy chain across their entire x570 lineup. Asus C6H was T-topology but C7H was daisy chain. More than that, I don't know.

570 tiachi has t topology (per the buildzoid dude)

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/c2gmyv