60 Minutes tonite - terrorists on the left

[Shuxclams]

Originally posted by: judasmachine

Originally posted by: alchemize
Interesting, now ELF basically takes on the wacky "let's kill folks" language. Wonder how long till they act?

Watching now...

this one goes back and forth. we have the rightwingnuts who blow up children in daycares and abortion clinics, and the leftwingnuts who torch unfinished housing developments and hummer dealerships, and such. if you paint all lefties as elf vandals, then i'll paint all the righties as mad bombers.

Well .... yeah











SHUX

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
I know of that kid who burned the suv's and he was misguided. and it was one kid, you cannot paint a whole group of people becase of one idealogical vandal :roll:

Everyone has distanced themselves from that crap in the activist community, figures they would bring that up.

Oh well fearmongering and corprate agenda sells. Damn that liberal media..Carry on.


A good point made in another forum:

Few people would argue in defense of vandalizing SUVs and breaking into labs. The question is whether these activities merit the label "terrorism." What the corporate media want to do is to make vandalizing an SUV and flying a plane into a building morally equivalent and equally newsworthy, which they certainly aren't.


Exactly, calling this stuff big scary names like eco-terrorism is pure sensaltionalist crap imo.

Pranksters, and yes, even the criminal element of resistance to a system, but not meant to sew fear into a populace.

Next thing you know TPing someones house will be "terrorism" which has almost become a meaningless term nowdays for "opposing the status quo"

I think you're taking the OP far more broadly than intended. IMO, it is NOT about environmentalists in general. It is specifically about the extremist groups ELF (Earth Liberation Front) and ALF (Animal Liberation Front). They are not mainstream groups like the Sierra Club. They have consistently relied on confrontation and attacks on property to intimidate (i.e., terrorize?) their "enemies". It appears they are escalating their tactics.

A company I worked for was a target of ALF because one of our branches insured a British company that did animal testing. ALF members vandalized several of our offices across the U.S., and even the homes of some executives. Their exploits were documented on their web site, along with information about target companies' offices and executives, schedules for invading offices, and suggestions about ways to damage their targets. At that time, they did NOT advocate hurting people, but they did advocate harassment and violence against property.

Judasmachine is right. They are the left's equivalent of the people who attack abortion clinics.

 

[Moonbeam]

Violence is knowing you are right. Being right rationalizes anything.

The need to be right arises out of a hidden feeling that one is wrong.

The hidden feeling of being wrong is repressed self hate, the necessary amnesia required to survive childhood trauma.

Self hate manifests as rebellion or conversion, the left and the right. Extreme self hate creates terrorists on the left and the right.

The left is good because it seeks to overthrow the terrorists with terror and the right is good because it seeks to suppress the terrorists with terror.

Everybody is good and everybody is right. We have to be. We HAVE TO BE.

WE MUST NOT REMEMBER, NO, NEVER EVER REMEMBER

To be wrong would be to die. Trust me.

 

[shrumpage]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
I know of that kid who burned the suv's and he was misguided. and it was one kid, you cannot paint a whole group of people becase of one idealogical vandal :roll:

Everyone has distanced themselves from that crap in the activist community, figures they would bring that up.

Oh well fearmongering and corprate agenda sells. Damn that liberal media..Carry on.


A good point made in another forum:

Few people would argue in defense of vandalizing SUVs and breaking into labs. The question is whether these activities merit the label "terrorism." What the corporate media want to do is to make vandalizing an SUV and flying a plane into a building morally equivalent and equally newsworthy, which they certainly aren't.


Exactly, calling this stuff big scary names like eco-terrorism is pure sensaltionalist crap imo.

Pranksters, and yes, even the criminal element of resistance to a system, but not meant to sew fear into a populace.

Next thing you know TPing someones house will be "terrorism" which has almost become a meaningless term nowdays for "opposing the status quo"

The whole group(ELF) took credit on for the actions. In both the burning of the research facility and fire bombing the SUVs.

 

[Steeplerot]

The elf/alf do not represent the us green party, one believes in changing the system through legal elections and grassroots activism and education, the other are nothing less then idealist vandals pissing all over the reputation of those promoting postive change through democracy.

I am glad they addressed abortion clinic bombers, its the same thing, those radicals make all christians look bad in the same way.

It's bad enough billions of dollars from corporations go into undermining the greens so they can maximize profits unchecked and they have no opposition without fringe groups vandalizing and not even having the balls to stick arouund to take responsibility for their actions doing more harm then good.

burn a apt complex..good job the corporate overlords get insurance money and start rebuilding anyway...elf/alf are misguided fools.

 

[Bitek]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
I know of that kid who burned the suv's and he was misguided. and it was one kid, you cannot paint a whole group of people becase of one idealogical vandal :roll:

Everyone has distanced themselves from that crap in the activist community, figures they would bring that up.

Oh well fearmongering and corprate agenda sells. Damn that liberal media..Carry on.


A good point made in another forum:

Few people would argue in defense of vandalizing SUVs and breaking into labs. The question is whether these activities merit the label "terrorism." What the corporate media want to do is to make vandalizing an SUV and flying a plane into a building morally equivalent and equally newsworthy, which they certainly aren't.


Exactly, calling this stuff big scary names like eco-terrorism is pure sensaltionalist crap imo.

Pranksters, and yes, even the criminal element of resistance to a system, but not meant to sew fear into a populace.

Next thing you know TPing someones house will be "terrorism" which has almost become a meaningless term nowdays for "opposing the status quo"

I think you're taking the OP far more broadly than intended. IMO, it is NOT about environmentalists in general. It is specifically about the extremist groups ELF (Earth Liberation Front) and ALF (Animal Liberation Front). They are not mainstream groups like the Sierra Club. They have consistently relied on confrontation and attacks on property to intimidate (i.e., terrorize?) their "enemies". It appears they are escalating their tactics.

A company I worked for was a target of ALF because one of our branches insured a British company that did animal testing. ALF members vandalized several of our offices across the U.S., and even the homes of some executives. Their exploits were documented on their web site, along with information about target companies' offices and executives, schedules for invading offices, and suggestions about ways to damage their targets. At that time, they did NOT advocate hurting people, but they did advocate harassment and violence against property.

Judasmachine is right. They are the left's equivalent of the people who attack abortion clinics.

Beware of the Army of the 12 Monkeys!

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Violence is knowing you are right. Being right rationalizes anything.

The need to be right arises out of a hidden feeling that one is wrong.

The hidden feeling of being wrong is repressed self hate, the necessary amnesia required to survive childhood trauma.

Self hate manifests as rebellion or conversion, the left and the right. Extreme self hate creates terrorists on the left and the right.

The left is good because it seeks to overthrow the terrorists with terror and the right is good because it seeks to suppress the terrorists with terror.

Everybody is good and everybody is right. We have to be. We HAVE TO BE.

WE MUST NOT REMEMBER, NO, NEVER EVER REMEMBER

To be wrong would be to die. Trust me.

L. Ron Hubbard is speaking through Moonbeam.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: shrumpage

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
I know of that kid who burned the suv's and he was misguided. and it was one kid, you cannot paint a whole group of people becase of one idealogical vandal :roll:

Everyone has distanced themselves from that crap in the activist community, figures they would bring that up.

Oh well fearmongering and corprate agenda sells. Damn that liberal media..Carry on.


A good point made in another forum:

Few people would argue in defense of vandalizing SUVs and breaking into labs. The question is whether these activities merit the label "terrorism." What the corporate media want to do is to make vandalizing an SUV and flying a plane into a building morally equivalent and equally newsworthy, which they certainly aren't.


Exactly, calling this stuff big scary names like eco-terrorism is pure sensaltionalist crap imo.

Pranksters, and yes, even the criminal element of resistance to a system, but not meant to sew fear into a populace.

Next thing you know TPing someones house will be "terrorism" which has almost become a meaningless term nowdays for "opposing the status quo"

The whole group(ELF) took credit on for the actions. In both the burning of the research facility and fire bombing the SUVs.

Per the 60 Minutes story, ELF (and ALF) operate in cells and plan and execute operations designed to destroy property. In addition, the program mentioned that some of the explosives deployed had nails in them, which indicates that people were a target. They also mentioned that in at least one case, secondary explosives were planted, timed to go off an hour after the initial explosion (to catch first-responder emergency teams).

This is targeting people and property for a political agenda. This strikes me as being worthy of the "terrorism" label.

 

[Steeplerot]

I am not going to defend the elf/alf but I highly doubt they would condone such a bomb, the feds are also very suspect for setting these groups up.

It is very well known the alf/elf are mostly infiltrated with feds anyhow, any nutjob can do that crap and put a banner up pointing to another group, this is the main problem I have with groups who have no centralized power to hold sway over the dangerous elements that come with highly idealistic groups.

A bomb like that would go against everything they stand for, thus I do not buy it.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Sixtyfour

Originally posted by: Steeplerot


Another person spouting lies, show me any endorsement of the green party to destroy civilization or the "evil consumer". :roll:

Do you think that they make it public, or do you think that all of them are thinking that way?
Remember that i said some want capitalists dead, and some just think african immigrants are closer to nature (just look how they have lived in africa).

And you do know that some enviroment activist would like to see ALL people dead because we 'exploit' nature ?

ps. it's not always what people say, it's what they do and how those actions can be explained.

wtf are you talking about?

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: Sixtyfour

Originally posted by: Steeplerot


Another person spouting lies, show me any endorsement of the green party to destroy civilization or the "evil consumer". :roll:

Do you think that they make it public, or do you think that all of them are thinking that way?
Remember that i said some want capitalists dead, and some just think african immigrants are closer to nature (just look how they have lived in africa).

And you do know that some enviroment activist would like to see ALL people dead because we 'exploit' nature ?

ps. it's not always what people say, it's what they do and how those actions can be explained.

wtf are you talking about?

It's their paranoia, the big "liberal conspiracy" thing. :roll:

 

[Stifko]

One of those guys equated eating chicken to owning slaves. What kind of BS is that and whats so wrong w/eatin chicken?

 

[Steeplerot]

I think he was making some refrence to factory farming methods, I think its a dumbass analogy though.

The whole speciests arguement is pretty far out there.

 

[BoberFett]

Sidebar: I dated a girl in high school briefly who (several years after I dated her) became one of the spokespeople for ELF/ALF. She was one of the spokespeople commenting to the press after the fires at the Vail ski resorts. Crazier than batshit that girl was, but cute, and a nice set of funbags.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Crazier than batshit that girl was

Sounds like a match made in heaven, what a shame.

 

[BoberFett]

Maybe I should go cry to the moderator because you're picking on me...

 

[Steeplerot]

Whatever, your the one coming in here like a sexist ass, hopefully you PM a female mod so she can laugh at your BS.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: alchemize
But back to the topic, I need to be killed, right? Cause chicken are just another species, and I murder them.

Not killed, eaten. With the requisite fava beans and chianti. Of course, in this light, killing you first could be seen as merciful. Are you organic, al, 'cause Great Gawd amighty, ah'm hongry! (Eyes al's beer gut).

But seriously, yolks . . . factory farming is chicken ******, a LOT of it. Yet no one here believes that elf and alf are anything but lunatic fringe with severe personal problems. But pumping cows full of antibiotics eventually compromises the effectiveness of those very same antibiotics on humans. Giving them growth hormone is not our best long term health bet. Slaughterhouses have been sped up many times over so that the conditions for the (mostly immigrants) working there are deadly.

Thanks to accross the board block cuts started in the Reagan administration and subsequent underfunding by Democratic and Republican administrations alike, federal inspectors are spread way to thin to adequately oversee food processing plants.

Greed, shortsightedness, and all for short term gain. Processed food sucks. Now, I don't eat Perdue type chickens OR slaves, and I wouldn't really kill and eat al (too tough, I'm thinking), but my message to agribusiness is, "EAT ME!"

 

[ShadesOfGrey]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
I know of that kid who burned the suv's and he was misguided. and it was one kid, you cannot paint a whole group of people becase of one idealogical vandal :roll:

Everyone has distanced themselves from that crap in the activist community, figures they would bring that up.

Oh well fearmongering and corprate agenda sells. Damn that liberal media..Carry on.


A good point made in another forum:

Few people would argue in defense of vandalizing SUVs and breaking into labs. The question is whether these activities merit the label "terrorism." What the corporate media want to do is to make vandalizing an SUV and flying a plane into a building morally equivalent and equally newsworthy, which they certainly aren't.


Exactly, calling this stuff big scary names like eco-terrorism is pure sensaltionalist crap imo.

Pranksters, and yes, even the criminal element of resistance to a system, but not meant to sew fear into a populace.

Next thing you know TPing someones house will be "terrorism" which has almost become a meaningless term nowdays for "opposing the status quo"

I think you're taking the OP far more broadly than intended. IMO, it is NOT about environmentalists in general. It is specifically about the extremist groups ELF (Earth Liberation Front) and ALF (Animal Liberation Front). They are not mainstream groups like the Sierra Club. They have consistently relied on confrontation and attacks on property to intimidate (i.e., terrorize?) their "enemies". It appears they are escalating their tactics.

A company I worked for was a target of ALF because one of our branches insured a British company that did animal testing. ALF members vandalized several of our offices across the U.S., and even the homes of some executives. Their exploits were documented on their web site, along with information about target companies' offices and executives, schedules for invading offices, and suggestions about ways to damage their targets. At that time, they did NOT advocate hurting people, but they did advocate harassment and violence against property.

Judasmachine is right. They are the left's equivalent of the people who attack abortion clinics.

:beer::Q We agree for once.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Per the 60 Minutes story, ELF (and ALF) operate in cells and plan and execute operations designed to destroy property. In addition, the program mentioned that some of the explosives deployed had nails in them, which indicates that people were a target. They also mentioned that in at least one case, secondary explosives were planted, timed to go off an hour after the initial explosion (to catch first-responder emergency teams).

This is targeting people and property for a political agenda. This strikes me as being worthy of the "terrorism" label.

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
I am not going to defend the elf/alf but I highly doubt they would condone such a bomb, the feds are also very suspect for setting these groups up.

It is very well known the alf/elf are mostly infiltrated with feds anyhow, any nutjob can do that crap and put a banner up pointing to another group, this is the main problem I have with groups who have no centralized power to hold sway over the dangerous elements that come with highly idealistic groups.

A bomb like that would go against everything they stand for, thus I do not buy it.

I have cited 60 Minutes as a source, whereas you have cited no source but your opinion. I'm guessing that 60 Minutes is slightly more credible, and would tend to give them the benefit of the doubt here.

 

[Strk]

I'm all for environmentalism, but groups like ELF need to go. All they do is get people to hate environmentalists.

 

[Thump553]

ELF and ALF are to environmentalists as Branch Davidians are to neocons.

Don't base you judgment on the underlying fundamental values of a concept based upon a few wackos that it may attract.

As far as raving against ELF or ALF though, I'd be very carefully to be relying upon solid evidence. Given the amount of money involved I wouldn't put it past some opposing groups to pull some dirty tricks and blame them on the "extremist" groups.