60 Minutes story tonight (2/3 of the hour) on spate of mysterious attacks beginning in 2016 on US officials and staff

[Muse]

I've almost finished the segment, about to watch the rest. This guy Burns, who they interview (Biden's pick for CIA Director), is clearly unwilling to make direct statements but the evidence is obviously overwhelming that some organization (very likely a foreign government) is behind this. I, a former physics major, figured the weapon is focused EM radiation based on the descriptions of many interviewees who suffered these attacks, often repeatedly at different locations. Later, they interviewed people who postulate it's high powered microwave focused beam weapons, which can be as small as something that would fit in a suitcase or a device as big as a tractor trailer.

I believe they said that the number of individuals who have suffered these attacks is in triple figures. They have happened in America and abroad, particularly at US installations. They have happened inside high security areas of the White House and to some very senior officials including one at the cabinet level. Some of the attacked have suffered life altering injuries that have completely derailed their lives.

Personally, I think it's Russia. They said China could do this too but it's Russia that has the most intense anti-American ideologies at the highest level. Putin regards the USA as Russia's chief rival and would do anything he can get away with to weaken America (check this). In the program they haven't (so far) said as much, but I figure the odds are high that it's Russia doing this and that it's from the highest levels there, Putin's people, and that he knows and has given it his blessing (I suppose you could say it's his curse).

This was dubbed "Havana Syndrome" because early cases in 2016 were reported by U.S. and Canadian embassy staff in Havana .

They showed Biden shaking hands with Putin in Geneva last summer and said he raised the issue with him and that Putin denied Russia's involvement.

I imagine this is viewable on Youtube.

 

[Jaskalas]

We must develop technology that can detect this attack, and place sensors around obvious target locations. So our security may be alerted in real time and respond accordingly.
I don't care if it requires $100 billion from the DoD, make it happen.

 

[Muse]

The other story tonight, the last 20 minutes, is on California's burgeoning, ever-worsening wildfire catastrophes.

 

[Artorias]

This is the Havana syndrome? It's crazy that such a sophisticated attack could occur in high security areas.

 

[Muse]

This is the Havana syndrome? It's crazy that such a sophisticated attack could occur in high security areas.

Why crazy? The beams are direct, focused, intense, invisible and can penetrate structures and obstacles.

 

[eelw]

This is the Havana syndrome? It's crazy that such a sophisticated attack could occur in high security areas.

High security to stop people and bullets. Obviously not high security enough against electro magnetic fields. But wonder what research western nations have done to reproduce and counter them?

 

[Muse]

High security to stop people and bullets. Obviously not high security enough against electro magnetic fields. But wonder what research western nations have done to reproduce and counter them?

They briefly interviewed an expert on powerful pulsed focused microwave radiation late in the 60 Minutes story. Burns said they are working on the whole affair.

I suppose a first step would be microwave energy detection, but don't know the ins and outs. If focused enough and if the beams didn't disperse (kind of like a laser) they might be hard to detect. Watching the story my hopeful thinking was that some Russian would spill the beans.

 

[Muse]

Bump... no interest in this? Blows my mind. If we find out and prove it IS RUSSIA, what do we do? Kick all Russian "diplomats" out? This is beyond heinous.
This is last night's story: https://www.cbs.com/shows/video/6Va41p4_F51Kkuo9hOKQuMS3Nt8bZZYp/

 

[Muse]

These are previous to last night's:

 

[Captante]

I'm very interested in this topic however at this point I have very little to add other then if this turns out to have been China or Russia (or any other nation) we're talking about acts of war.

 

[nickqt]

It seems like this kind of "weapon" would generate EM frequencies that would disrupt operation of phones, computers, monitors, etc. Was that also experienced?

Additionally, I trust the CIA about as far as I can throw my refrigerator, so are we 100% sure an American actor wasn't testing it on Americans (not the first time that's been done) and were a little too successful...and are now just trying to cover it up?

 

[Pens1566]

It seems like this kind of "weapon" would generate EM frequencies that would disrupt operation of phones, computers, monitors, etc. Was that also experienced?

Additionally, I trust the CIA about as far as I can throw my refrigerator, so are we 100% sure an American actor wasn't testing it on Americans (not the first time that's been done) and were a little too successful...and are now just trying to cover it up?

Not necessarily. Especially if it's as focused/concentrated as suspected.

As for how interesting or discussed this is ... I mean, it is definitely interesting. But the real technical details are so nebulous and scattered while the outcome is not as severe as some old-school cold war espionage shenanigans. Plus, the official response has been muted for what I expect are legit reasons. They don't want to give away exactly how effective the tactic has been.

 

[Bitek]

Bump... no interest in this? Blows my mind. If we find out and prove it IS RUSSIA, what do we do? Kick all Russian "diplomats" out? This is beyond heinous.
This is last night's story: https://www.cbs.com/shows/video/6Va41p4_F51Kkuo9hOKQuMS3Nt8bZZYp/

I'd like to know, I too assumed it was some sort of EM weapon (really, what else would it realistically be) and it's likely Russia.

As far as what to do... Keep sending weapons to Ukraine to kill as many orcs as possible until Russia withdraws and ideally Putin is overthrown.

And figure out how to detect the beams...

 

[Muse]

It seems like this kind of "weapon" would generate EM frequencies that would disrupt operation of phones, computers, monitors, etc. Was that also experienced?

Additionally, I trust the CIA about as far as I can throw my refrigerator, so are we 100% sure an American actor wasn't testing it on Americans (not the first time that's been done) and were a little too successful...and are now just trying to cover it up?

Watch the 60 Minutes pieces and you should find the answers to those questions.

This isn't just happening on American soil, it's been happening to Americans all over the world, typically in embassies, to their staff and to staff families in their lodgings. That does not seem the sort of thing to be accomplished or dreamed of by an American agency/actor of any kind but is exactly what I'd expect from Russia. China is also anti-American but they are not like Russia, who are quite proud, extremely cunning and can be inconceivably vile and unconscionable.

 

[Lezunto]

These beams have been used to attack personnel in high security areas of the White House?

Where is the proof of this? I thought this was done overseas.

 

[cytg111]

They briefly interviewed an expert on powerful pulsed focused microwave radiation late in the 60 Minutes story. Burns said they are working on the whole affair.

I suppose a first step would be microwave energy detection, but don't know the ins and outs. If focused enough and if the beams didn't disperse (kind of like a laser) they might be hard to detect. Watching the story my hopeful thinking was that some Russian would spill the beans.

We already had a thread on this way back.. to recap, masers is def. a thing.
My "Mr Hyde" side has been speculating in these kinds of attacks for a long time, not only the EM part, but other venues of playing the game statistically and asymmetrically... suppose you can orchestrate an environment where you can, undetectable, increase cancer risk by 300% and do it to 100 individuals of the opposition.... for example.

 

[KB]

That was an old story. Skeptoid did an episode on the Havanna syndrome and believe it to be mostly caused by stress. The embassies that had the most difficult relations with the US often had the highest number of cases. I am not certain but some have said it is microwaves. Microwave energy doesnt travel through walls and has to be singularly targeted. It would be too difficult to direct a beam at everyone in a building and not cause other effects like heating. The episode is worth a listen just to at least get the mind thinking.

Havana Syndrome, Microwaves, and Hearing RF

The lone exception to the science fact that radio cannot hurt you.

skeptoid.com

 

[Muse]

These beams have been used to attack personnel in high security areas of the White House?

Where is the proof of this? I thought this was done overseas.

The 60 Minutes story Sunday night (2 days ago now) makes it plain that this did happen in high security areas of White House and on multiple occasions. They interview the woman who suffered these at length. Yes, done overseas and in Washington D.C.

 

[Muse]

That was an old story. Skeptoid did an episode on the Havanna syndrome and believe it to be mostly caused by stress.

After having watched Sunday's episode I have to think it worse than a waste of time to look at Skeptoid's treatment if they conclude it's "mostly caused by stress." These were attacks by a clandestine agency, very likely Russian.

Edit: Brian Dunning, the guy behind Skeptoid seems to be a skammer:

Fraudster skeptic Brian Dunning's shell game

Fraudster skeptic Brian Dunning's shell game - Lousy Canuck

the-orbit.net

 

[Lezunto]

I am really flabbergasted. I know that no aircraft can fly above the White House grounds.

But who could get this close in a vehicle to deploy such a weapon?

 

[Pens1566]

I am really flabbergasted. I know that no aircraft can fly above the White House grounds.

But who could get this close in a vehicle to deploy such a weapon?

It wouldn't be difficult if said device was small enough.

 

[cytg111]

Or from a flat nearby, residents may not even be aware. Are we sure they were targeted at the WH and not their home residences? It would be easier to dose you if you were not moving around ie. sleeping. (plus security).
Will watch the clip tonight.

 

[Muse]

Or from a flat nearby, residents may not even be aware. Are we sure they were targeted at the WH and not their home residences? It would be easier to dose you if you were not moving around ie. sleeping. (plus security).
Will watch the clip tonight.

They are doing this in a variety of places, scenarios: targeting offices, people exiting buildings, people's residences, in particular hotel rooms. I figure they're using mobile setups, e.g. large vans or trucks with the powerful-battery operated device inside, with a targeting system, and obviously they do their homework to know who to target, where and when.

 

[KB]

After having watched Sunday's episode I have to think it worse than a waste of time to look at Skeptoid's treatment if they conclude it's "mostly caused by stress." These were attacks by a clandestine agency, very likely Russian.

Edit: Brian Dunning, the guy behind Skeptoid seems to be a skammer:

Fraudster skeptic Brian Dunning's shell game

Fraudster skeptic Brian Dunning's shell game - Lousy Canuck

the-orbit.net

He scammed Ebay by "hacking" users cookies. That hardly means his opinions are invalid.


From his episode:

"Before you guffaw and dismiss this, let's review what we've learned about acute stress in previous episodes. Chronic acute stress can produce definite physical symptoms, and they are — all down the line — exactly the symptoms reported by the diplomats. Sleeplessness, anxiety, nausea, headaches, fatigue, cognitive impairment, etcetera. The reported symptoms began immediately after Donald Trump had been elected President and vowed to crack down on US-Cuban relations. This placed greatly increased stress on the American diplomats.

.....

This also explains why it happened only to Americans (plus a few Canadians) and not to the local Cubans in the same houses and buildings. We would expect a mass psychogenic event to not affect the Cuban neighbors and employees. As Cubans, they have no reason to think they'd be targeted, and they lack the stress of being from the enemy country.

It's a solid explanation with numerous precedents from recent history. It fits nicely with Occam's Razor, in that it's an ordinary explanation that does not require us to make any changes to our understanding of physics or biology. Of course we don't know that this is in fact what happened, but unless some evidence emerges showing a physical cause, it's the best supported explanation. And that, my friends, is how we do science."

 

[Muse]

He scammed Ebay by "hacking" users cookies. That hardly means his opinions are invalid.

It suggests they very probably are, that he's a person of dubious integrity.

From his episode:

"Before you guffaw and dismiss this, let's review what we've learned about acute stress in previous episodes. Chronic acute stress can produce definite physical symptoms, and they are — all down the line — exactly the symptoms reported by the diplomats. Sleeplessness, anxiety, nausea, headaches, fatigue, cognitive impairment, etcetera. The reported symptoms began immediately after Donald Trump had been elected President and vowed to crack down on US-Cuban relations. This placed greatly increased stress on the American diplomats.

.....

This also explains why it happened only to Americans (plus a few Canadians) and not to the local Cubans in the same houses and buildings. We would expect a mass psychogenic event to not affect the Cuban neighbors and employees. As Cubans, they have no reason to think they'd be targeted, and they lack the stress of being from the enemy country.

It's a solid explanation with numerous precedents from recent history. It fits nicely with Occam's Razor, in that it's an ordinary explanation that does not require us to make any changes to our understanding of physics or biology. Of course we don't know that this is in fact what happened, but unless some evidence emerges showing a physical cause, it's the best supported explanation. And that, my friends, is how we do science."

Either Dunning or you cherry-picked the affects of the weapon. Instead of shitting on this thread, watch the fucking 60 Minute episode. The affects were to the inner ear. Some of these people have been incapacitated for years.

The weapon is focused, which accounts for why Cubans had no complaints, they were not targeted. The designers of this weapon did not want collateral damage.