5x5: starting barbell weights, squat form

[Fayd]

I just 'started' the SL 5x5 program yesterday. there's a couple things I'm not understanding.

starting barbell weights: why barbell rows at 65 lbs? why bench at 45? I was getting nothing out of it at 45, so I upped it to 75 to feel something. I'm pretty confident on my form for bench..

but barbell rows..why 65? and tomorrow, deadlift at 95?

Squat form: I'm doing empty bar. It was somewhat difficult, even with empty bar. I can't get down to parallel...and i'm unsteady. Weight is either shifting forward or falling backwards.

I'm trying to read about squat form, but i see conflicting information about leg/knee position, how splayed they should be, etc.

I'm trying stretching, leg lifts, and deep knee bends with the hope of working it out. Should I hold off on starting the program until I can actually hit parallel? or proceed and do the best I can, and hope by the time I actually hit decent weight that I've made it to parallel (and steady)?

 

[z1ggy]

You start light for 2 reasons:

1) To get perfect form
2) To continuously see gains week after week after week

#2 is more for total novices. If you've lifted in the past but maybe you're coming back off a 6month+ hiatus, you could start at maybe 50% of your working sets before and add the 5lb per session.

You probably have weak balancing muscles, and low flexibility in your hips. It's hard to describe in words how to squat properly. You need a person who really knows what they are doing to show you. You might also be leaning over at the trunk as well instead of keeping a nice strong and flat back.

Find Mark Rippetoe's videos online, he goes over every lift and the form.

 

[brad310]

Squat form: I'm doing empty bar. It was somewhat difficult, even with empty bar. I can't get down to parallel...and i'm unsteady. Weight is either shifting forward or falling backwards.

I had a similar problem when i started SS. My case is flexability, particularly in the ankle.

What kind of shoe are you using? I would strongly suggest looking at a weightlifting specific shoe. I have used the Rogue Do-Win, but more preferably, the Reebok Crossfit Oly lifting shoe. Its more comfortable and versatile.

With a proper shoe, you are more stable and will hit your depth more easily. The ones i got a few years back with a single tarsal strap arent here anymore, but you can get an idea for shopping. You basically want an elevated and solid heel. Mine are 3/4 of an inch higher on the heel than the toes. If you cant afford a shoe, try putting a 10lb plate under your heels, or a 1x4.

http://www.roguefitness.com/shoes.php

 

[Saint Nick]

You start light for 2 reasons:

1) To get perfect form
2) To continuously see gains week after week after week

#2 is more for total novices. If you've lifted in the past but maybe you're coming back off a 6month+ hiatus, you could start at maybe 50% of your working sets before and add the 5lb per session.

You probably have weak balancing muscles, and low flexibility in your hips. It's hard to describe in words how to squat properly. You need a person who really knows what they are doing to show you. You might also be leaning over at the trunk as well instead of keeping a nice strong and flat back.

Find Mark Rippetoe's videos online, he goes over every lift and the form.

I'm going to also suggest to watch "So You Think You Can Squat" series. The guy in this series is moving some serious weight, but apply what the coach is saying to your own training and it will be quite helpful.

 

[smackababy]

The reason you start light is for the exact issue you're having. While your leg muscles should have no problems moving 45lbs, the rest of your stabilizer muscles have trouble maintaining balance and support.

As far as form, watch some videos online and look at yourself in the mirror. You can use a broom as a bar to simulate the position and practice until you get it right. If you are having trouble, ask someone as the gym for help. Just a simple "hey, can you give me a few pointers on my squat form?" when they are not in the middle of a set and you should be just fine.

 

[iluvdeal]

Better to see proper squat form than just read about it. Check out youtube. Here's one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoZWgTrZLd8

 

[momeNt]

I'm far from an expert. I'm bordering on the shouldn't give advice spectrum.

But I found what really helped my squat form was not squatting with the bar at all, but practicing my flexibility by holding onto the bar on the hooks, and lowering myself into a good position (which for me was actually stretching out stuff).

I found that with super light weights before I did this, I couldn't get low enough because my inflexibility was stopping me from going deep enough. But by hanging onto the bar, I could let myself go deeper because I could let my body stretch deeper into the squat, deeper than I could actually come up from without holding onto the bar on the hooks.

Heavier weights helped me go deeper, but left me too sore because the weight was pushing me down further than I was flexible for, and resulted in a lot of failures.

So stretching and practicing form by holding onto the bar supported by the hooks was my practice, a controlled environment for perfecting form.

 

[maziwanka]

if you pick up rip's book on SS, there's some good explanations in there too

 

[Saint Nick]

I'm far from an expert. I'm bordering on the shouldn't give advice spectrum.

But I found what really helped my squat form was not squatting with the bar at all, but practicing my flexibility by holding onto the bar on the hooks, and lowering myself into a good position (which for me was actually stretching out stuff).

I found that with super light weights before I did this, I couldn't get low enough because my inflexibility was stopping me from going deep enough. But by hanging onto the bar, I could let myself go deeper because I could let my body stretch deeper into the squat, deeper than I could actually come up from without holding onto the bar on the hooks.

Heavier weights helped me go deeper, but left me too sore because the weight was pushing me down further than I was flexible for, and resulted in a lot of failures.

So stretching and practicing form by holding onto the bar supported by the hooks was my practice, a controlled environment for perfecting form.

This is good advice IMO. I spent a good chunk of last summer just doing bodyweight squats without any weights what so ever and reviewing my videos. I also focused a lot more on flexibility.

 

[Sid59]

This is good advice IMO. I spent a good chunk of last summer just doing bodyweight squats without any weights what so ever and reviewing my videos. I also focused a lot more on flexibility.

Agreed. The easiest and underrated fixes for squats are bodyweight squats, ankle, hip, and thoracic mobility. Sitting in a solid squat postion, chest up, with elbows pushing the knees out is my favorite mobility and stretches. I usually sit in the squat and push weight over 1 ankle a time to loosen it.

Other things i do for warmup for bodyweight squats: wide stance, feet together, staggered front feet (1 slightly in front of another)

 

[CPA]

I prefer 5-3-1's approach: calculate max weight using this formula weight x reps x .0333 + weight.

I use a weight that I believe is about 70-80% of my max. If I have no clue what my max might be, then I would pick a weight I know I've worked before and gotten more than 5 reps with. Now that I have calculated my max weight I can set up my daily workout.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Fayd,

By starting with lower weights you learn proper form. The thing is, you learn it well enough by using lower weights that when you screw form up mid lift with heavier weights, you notice it immediately. I know when I was progressing last time with Squat and deadlift that I could tell in the middle of a lift that my form just went to hell. I usually rack or drop the weights ASAP when this happens and call it what it is. A failed lift.

Anyway, do what the program says. In 3 months you'll be lifting more weight than you have in your life.

For squat positioning, I had the same hell reading about foot position. What does 45 degrees mean? 45 relative to eachother or relative to parallel. The important thing is that your knee track over your foot. That is what should determine the foot position. I've come to realize that for me that this is about 45 degrees relative to eachother. So 22.5 degrees off of parallel. Of course, wider stance mean greater foot angles.

From reading your statement on squat and the bar moving around, read up on what is called the low bar squat.

READ EVERYTHING BY RIPPETOE! And if you can find his DVDs (*hint* find *hint*), watch them. They are excellent tutorials by one of the best teachers in the country. I still want to buy his book (which comes with DVDs) but haven't.

Can you squat without any bar and get to parallel? If you can't do this, there may be bigger problems that need addressing.

Someone mentioned shoes. Just go barefoot unless the floor is slippery. I only wear shoes for calf raises. Eventually you may want proper squat shoes though. I might get some once I build my strength back to where I was a year ago.