*5th* helicopter shot down in *3* weeks!

[sandorski]

What if Iran supplied the bullets?

 

[Passions]

It's the Iranians. We must take them out now before they gain any more leverage.

 

[randomint]

i really don't feel sad for American casualties in Iraq. they created the mess under false pretense and now can't handle the monster they created.

hate to say this but i think that the only way the moronic American president will change his mind is if there are a lot more american casualties daily. Something drastic that will have the American people up in arms and on the streets demanding a withdrawal.

 

[randomint]

Originally posted by: Passions
It's the Iranians. We must take them out now before they gain any more leverage.

I'd much rather see the iranians get stronger. there's always a balance of power in the world and now that Russia i snot as strong as the usa they are helping Iran diminish u.s. influence in the middle east. I think overall this tug of power is better for the world as awhole.

 

[Jhhnn]

Any helicopter can be brought down by a heavy machinegun in the hands of somebody who knows how to use it. The Vietcong proved that long ago. And there were plenty of such weapons looted form Iraqi armories in the poorly organized initial phase of occupation...

Too busy securing the oil ministry and hunting down Baathist bigwigs to worry about anything quite so basic as controlling access to heavy weapons and explosives...

But it's so convenient to blame the Iranians, if possible...

 

[nullzero]

Iranians and outside sources are key for a long lasting insurgency. The supply of weapons already in Iraq is only so big.... new supply of bullets, weapons, and explosives will need to be imported to keep the insurgents armed and ready to attack. This is basic logic since Iraq has no war factories turning out new bullets and weapons and hundreds of weapons caches are destoryed almost everday or so.

I do believe Iran is supplying weapons it only makes sense. If China invaded Canada you could bet that the U.S. would be supplying weapons to resistance fighters in Canada. Its in Irans best interest to supply weapons and to weaken the U.S. military influence in Iraq. Since the U.S. has been planning to take out the Iranian leadership since 1979.

 

[db]

Arms come from anywhere and everywhere. To blame Iran is to give in to the NeoCon plan to control the Middle East, so well laid out by PNAC in 2000:

"while the unresolved conflict in Iraq provides the immediate justification [for US military presence], the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein" and "Over the long term, Iran may well prove as large a threat to U.S. interests in the Gulf as Iraq has. And even should U.S.-Iranian relations improve, retaining forward-based forces in the region would still be an essential element in U.S. security strategy given the longstanding American interests in the region".

What does this mean, besides lies about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and Iran-supplied weapons and influence? -->Your brother dies to support the ideology of extremest wackos in DC.

 

[db]

U.S. interests = US companies making money.

That is our history when that term is used. You die so others can make profits.

 

[nullzero]

Originally posted by: db
Arms come from anywhere and everywhere. To blame Iran is to give in to the NeoCon plan to control the Middle East, so well laid out by PNAC in 2000:

"while the unresolved conflict in Iraq provides the immediate justification [for US military presence], the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein" and "Over the long term, Iran may well prove as large a threat to U.S. interests in the Gulf as Iraq has. And even should U.S.-Iranian relations improve, retaining forward-based forces in the region would still be an essential element in U.S. security strategy given the longstanding American interests in the region".

What does this mean, besides lies about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and Iran-supplied weapons and influence? -->Your brother dies to support the ideology of extremest wackos in DC.

While I dont agree we should be invading Iran... It would be very dumb to say they havent directly or indirectly supplied weapons to the insurgency in Iraq. They are selling weapons to people more then likely that are middle men that will smuggle the weapons in. Iran knows very well what its doing supplying weapons to the insurgency, I dont blame them they have every right to sell weapons just like any other country. Selling weapons is a profitable business... all the permit members of the U.N. are all the top weapon selling countries . Iran is definately using this war to its full advantage, if roles were reversed and it was Iran coming into Canada we would use full advantage of the situtuation to disrupt and undermine their mission.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Not really informative---just that it may have been a shoulder fired missile--and no information about the
point of origin of the alleged missile---yet this thread seems to blame the Iranians????????

And wow, we killed the ring leader of a death squad suspected of killing a whole three Iraqi---which will make a huge dent in sectarian violence??????

I don't see this thread blaming anyone... it does ask the question though, and there's nothing wrong with that! It's a legitimate theory and matter for discussion.

By the way, do you belittle everyone? You know, real people put their lives on the line to take out that ring leader. The fact that you dismiss their efforts as worthless in the big scheme of things is just plain disrespectful.

What did YOU do yesterday to make the world a safer place? just curious...

There's someone wrong in asking the question when media outlets like fox news would put "DID THE IRANIANS SHOOT DOWN A HELICOPTER!!?!" in big bold letters as the introduction to the story in order to use innuendo to suggest they did.

Do you think Fox would "slant" the news? OH! The poor little ah heck boys.

 

[MadRat]

It was probably 14.5mm rather than from 12.7mm.

 

[conjur]

Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran.

That's all the rwingnuts blab about. Too bad they can't focus on some evidence pointing in the OTHER direction:

Saudis reportedly funding Iraqi Sunni insurgents
12/8/2006 7:29 AM ET

Private Saudi citizens are giving millions of dollars to Sunni insurgents in Iraq and much of the money is used to buy weapons, including shoulder fired anti-aircraft missiles, according to key Iraqi officials and others familiar with the flow of cash.

Saudi government officials deny that any money from their country is being sent to Iraqis fighting the government and the U.S.-led coalition.

But the U.S. Iraq Study Group report said Saudis are a source of funding for Sunni Arab insurgents. Several truck drivers interviewed by The Associated Press described carrying boxes of cash from Saudi Arabia into Iraq, money they said was headed for insurgents.

Two high-ranking Iraqi officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the issue's sensitivity, told the AP most of the Saudi money comes from private donations, called zaqat, collected for Islamic causes and charities.

Some Saudis appear to know the money is headed to Iraq's insurgents, but others merely give it to clerics who channel it to anti-coalition forces, the officials said.

In one recent case, an Iraqi official said $25 million in Saudi money went to a top Iraqi Sunni cleric and was used to buy weapons, including Strela, a Russian shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missile. The missiles were purchased from someone in Romania, apparently through the black market, he said.

Overall, the Iraqi officials said, money has been pouring into Iraq from oil-rich Saudi Arabia, a Sunni bastion, since the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq toppled the Sunni-controlled regime of Saddam Hussein in 2003.

 

[nullzero]

Yeah Conur this whole Iraq mess is going to get so much worse. Saudi Arabia is afraid of its Sunni dominance in the region threatened by Iran. Iran has the capability to make Iraq a proxy state and after the dust settles if Iran has control over Iraq's oil it will have almost more combined proven oil reserves then Saudi Arabia. Im sure weapons are easy for insurgents to pick up there is more tons of black market weapon dealers selling high powered weapons to the highest bidder.
See this article on weapons blackmarket in Iraq.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/10/world...1ade4b1&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

Reading this article really opens your eyes to how easy it is to get weapons in Iraq. This Iraq War has to be the biggest blunder in U.S. history.

The insurgents are getting weapons from all angles... even from the U.S. military its assigned weapons are falling into the hands of insurgents. With the blackmarket weapon prices surging it will only created more chaos as Eastern European, Middle Eastern weapon smugglers and others flood the market with more weapons since the price margins are great selling a AK-47 for $650.

BTW Lord of War is a really good movie based off a true story, to show the side of weapon smuggling. Its really shocking im sure private war profiteers are all over this Iraq War across the globe.

 

[nullzero]

Interesting article follow up to the helicopters getting shot down. It seems the U.S. is changing helicopter tactics due to these events.

*4 helicopters were lost to hostile fire, military says for first time
*Crashes came after insurgents said they had new anti-aircraft weapons
*Al-Jazeera airs video showing one of the helicopters being hit
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/02/04/iraq.helicopter.ap/index.html

It does seems the insurgents have recieved new and improved Anti Air weapons and training including where the aircrafts weakspots are.

 

[LtPage1]

I find it unlikely that Iranian (Soviet) weapons would take out Apaches that easily. It was most likely a Stinger.

 

[Aimster]

It was machine gun fire

videos are posted

 

[MadRat]

The new system is the old zpu which is what they've been getting from their outside helpers in syria, china, and eastern europe. They haven't been caught with iranian equipment yet.

 

[ChiPCGuy]

Originally posted by: LtPage1
I find it unlikely that Iranian (Soviet) weapons would take out Apaches that easily. It was most likely a Stinger.

Umm, you are not up to date on the latest shoulder fired SAM systems are you? Stingers=old news. SA-7s also are old news, comparable to the old Red Eye system. If someone has been selling SA-18s, then our aircraft are in real trouble as the SA-18 is more destructive, and arguably more advanced, than the latest rev of the Stinger.

Second point...the Stingers that were sold to the Afghans back in the 80's are too old to be operable at this point. The shelf life of the batteries have long past.

 

[MadRat]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ee046ff204&o=1

From the looks of this video on liveleak, the range suggests its the longer ranged russian version. They have secured a channel through romania apparently for a limited supply.

 

[nullzero]

Originally posted by: MadRat
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ee046ff204&o=1

From the looks of this video on liveleak, the range suggests its the longer ranged russian version. They have secured a channel through romania apparently for a limited supply.

The insurgents are getting arms from the eastern european underworld organizations. Weapon smugglers are making a killing on profit from underground weapon sales. The profit margins are HUGE in Iraq for weapons because the demand for weapons is higher then anywhere in the world right now. There was a new york times article on how the price of a ak47 tripled within 4 years after the invasion of Iraq ended. AK47s were selling for $210 days after baghadad was taken over and now they are selling for +$675-800.

Link to article
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/10/world...1ade4b1&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

If you ever saw the movie Lord of War (based on true events) you would know how profitable and how many weapons are sold in the underground markets.

 

[anthrax]

About the Apache. Looks like it was flighing high to get a better view of the surroundings. Flight up higher see more but also more people see you. Coversely, more people see you too and this time, the natives happened to have a bigger fly swatter with them. Looks like a change of tactics will be happening soon. No more day light trips like that.

Now about the blackhawk. Looks like a sight seeing trip gone wrong, the natives given them a welcoming present. Just look at the ranks of the casualties. Most of the are pretty senior. So many packed onto the same ride. Looks like there won't be so much sight seeing soon.

Col. Brian D. Allgood, 46, of Oklahoma; 30th Medical Brigade, European Regional Medical Command, Heidelberg, Germany.

? Staff Sgt. Darryl D. Booker, 37, of Midlothian, Va.; 29th Infantry Division, Virginia Army National Guard, Sandston, Va.

? Sgt. 1st Class John G. Brown, 43, of Little Rock, Ark.; 1st Battalion, 185th Aviation Regiment, 77th Aviation Brigade, Arkansas National Guard, Camp Robinson, Ark.

? Lt. Col. David C. Canegata, 50, of St. Croix, U.S. Virgin Islands; Virgin Islands Army National Guard, Christiansted, Virgin Islands.

? Command Sgt. Maj. Marilyn L. Gabbard, 46, of Polk City, Iowa; Joint Forces Headquarters, Iowa Army National Guard, Camp Dodge, Johnston, Iowa.

? Command Sgt. Maj. Roger W. Haller, 49, of Davidsonville, Md.; 70th Regiment, Regional Training Institute ? Maryland, Maryland Army National Guard, Reisterstown, Md.

? Col. Paul M. Kelly, 45, of Stafford, Va.; Joint Force Headquarters, Virginia Army National Guard, Blackstone, Va.

? Staff Sgt. Floyd E. Lake, 43, of St. Thomas, U.S. Virgin Islands; Virgin Islands Army National Guard, Christiansted, Virgin Islands.

? Cpl. Victor M. Langarica, 29, of Decatur, Ga.; 86th Signal Battalion, Fort Huachuca, Ariz.

? Capt. Sean E. Lyerly, 31, of Pflugerville, Texas; 36th Combat Aviation Brigade, 36th Infantry Division, Texas Army National Guard, Austin, Texas.

? Maj. Michael V. Taylor, 40, of North Little Rock, Ark.; 1st Battalion, 185th Aviation Regiment, 77th Aviation Brigade, Arkansas Army National Guard, Camp Robinson, Ark.

? 1st Sgt. William T. Warren, 48, of North Little Rock, Ark.; 1st Battalion, 185th Aviation Regiment, 77th Aviation Brigade, Arkansas Army National Guard, Camp Robinson, Ark.

 

[nullzero]

5th helicopter shot down....

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/02/07/iraq.main/index.html

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: nullzero
5th helicopter shot down....

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/02/07/iraq.main/index.html

i find it odd that the entire article fails to mention casualties in the crash... not even so much as a "...number of casualties unknown at this time..." nothing.

very sad though...

 

[brandonbull]

Originally posted by: nullzero

Originally posted by: MadRat
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ee046ff204&o=1

From the looks of this video on liveleak, the range suggests its the longer ranged russian version. They have secured a channel through romania apparently for a limited supply.

The insurgents are getting arms from the eastern european underworld organizations. Weapon smugglers are making a killing on profit from underground weapon sales. The profit margins are HUGE in Iraq for weapons because the demand for weapons is higher then anywhere in the world right now. There was a new york times article on how the price of a ak47 tripled within 4 years after the invasion of Iraq ended. AK47s were selling for $210 days after baghadad was taken over and now they are selling for +$675-800.

Link to article
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/10/world...1ade4b1&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

If you ever saw the movie Lord of War (based on true events) you would know how profitable and how many weapons are sold in the underground markets.

Maybe the US should divert some of those billions and buy up the supply of weapons in order to increase the price of the blackmarket weapons.

I still say Bush 7 Co. are sending our troops into tomorrow's battle fighting yesterday's war.

 

[nullzero]

Found this more detailed article on the crash.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breaking/s...sp?j=89690376&p=8969x678&n=89690756&x=

"Helicopter 'hit by missile' says Iraqi official"

Looks like this one was hit down by an anti aircraft missile.

"At the Pentagon, an official said there was a report that the number of people on board the helicopter was fewer than 10."

Deaths are somewhere between 2-9 it looks like . More sad news out of Iraq, the war is morphing into a monster .

Also the BBC says it was a missile that shot it down and the helicopter burst into flames.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6338787.stm