*5th* helicopter shot down in *3* weeks!

[nullzero]

This is not good , it looks like it was an apache they shot down as well. This is looking more like the soviets in afghanistan by the day .

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/02/02/iraq.main/index.html

 

[Lemon law]

Not really informative---just that it may have been a shoulder fired missile--and no information about the
point of origin of the alleged missile---yet this thread seems to blame the Iranians????????

And wow, we killed the ring leader of a death squad suspected of killing a whole three Iraqi---which will make a huge dent in sectarian violence??????

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Not really informative---just that it may have been a shoulder fired missile--and no information about the
point of origin of the alleged missile---yet this thread seems to blame the Iranians????????

And wow, we killed the ring leader of a death squad suspected of killing a whole three Iraqi---which will make a huge dent in sectarian violence??????

I don't see this thread blaming anyone... it does ask the question though, and there's nothing wrong with that! It's a legitimate theory and matter for discussion.

By the way, do you belittle everyone? You know, real people put their lives on the line to take out that ring leader. The fact that you dismiss their efforts as worthless in the big scheme of things is just plain disrespectful.

What did YOU do yesterday to make the world a safer place? just curious...

 

[ayabe]

Second Apache too, of the four that have been shot down.

Kind of disturbing though not much info is being reported. Apache's can be brought down by AK fire too if the shooter gets extremely lucky but I'm thinking this has to be the result of RPG or shoulder SAM fire.

 

[halik]

The odds of you bringing down an Apache with 7.62 AK rounds are minimal. The odds of you actually hitting an Apache with an RPG are even less that that.

I wouldn't be surprised if they're taking them out with Stingers that CIA supplied to afghanistan in the 80s. Check the footage of the bad guys trying to take out the DHL cargo airbus, thy were using a Stinger.

 

[MadRat]

Are you sure its the stinger? The russians kit looks almost identical.

 

[Aimster]

They usually make videos of themselves taking out helicopters.

watch the videos and identify the weapon.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Not really informative---just that it may have been a shoulder fired missile--and no information about the
point of origin of the alleged missile---yet this thread seems to blame the Iranians????????

And wow, we killed the ring leader of a death squad suspected of killing a whole three Iraqi---which will make a huge dent in sectarian violence??????

I don't see this thread blaming anyone... it does ask the question though, and there's nothing wrong with that! It's a legitimate theory and matter for discussion.

By the way, do you belittle everyone? You know, real people put their lives on the line to take out that ring leader. The fact that you dismiss their efforts as worthless in the big scheme of things is just plain disrespectful.

What did YOU do yesterday to make the world a safer place? just curious...

There's someone wrong in asking the question when media outlets like fox news would put "DID THE IRANIANS SHOOT DOWN A HELICOPTER!!?!" in big bold letters as the introduction to the story in order to use innuendo to suggest they did.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Not really informative---just that it may have been a shoulder fired missile--and no information about the
point of origin of the alleged missile---yet this thread seems to blame the Iranians????????

And wow, we killed the ring leader of a death squad suspected of killing a whole three Iraqi---which will make a huge dent in sectarian violence??????

I don't see this thread blaming anyone... it does ask the question though, and there's nothing wrong with that! It's a legitimate theory and matter for discussion.

By the way, do you belittle everyone? You know, real people put their lives on the line to take out that ring leader. The fact that you dismiss their efforts as worthless in the big scheme of things is just plain disrespectful.

What did YOU do yesterday to make the world a safer place? just curious...

hahah this sounds too much like a joke the daily show did on Fox news. Their headlines were always questions like, completely baseless questions.

This is the same was with Iraq, getting people used to the idea first before anything is done.

 

[Czar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9MMUkklO_s
heeere we go

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: halik
The odds of you bringing down an Apache with 7.62 AK rounds are minimal. The odds of you actually hitting an Apache with an RPG are even less that that.

I wouldn't be surprised if they're taking them out with Stingers that CIA supplied to afghanistan in the 80s. Check the footage of the bad guys trying to take out the DHL cargo airbus, thy were using a Stinger.

Minimal but one was shot down by small arms fire during the initial invasion.

As far as RPG's go, they have tons of them, if any helicopter is flying low the odds are actually pretty good. Give me 5 RPG's and I bet I could get a lucky shot on a low flying Apache if the pilot didn't see it coming.

 

[kage69]

It's the Chinese that make a carbon copy of the Stinger I believe, not the Russians. But the Russians have their own quite competent weapons as well. While I agree bringing down an Apache with standard 7.62x39mm rounds is pretty unlikely, using the various types of RPGs that are in abundance over there to do the same is far from impossible. Ammunition for them is plentiful, and they've brought down choppers before (not saying the BlackHawk is armored to the same extent as the Apache, just that putting a round into a low flying helicopter has been demonstrated before).

 

[Lemon law]

To palehorse64 who bleats---I don't see this thread blaming anyone..

You must have missed the thread summary---Is Iran giving the insurgents advanced anti air weapons?

When its not even established that a missile was used, regardless of source---and now the topic summary implies we rush off and even discuss is Iran responsible---thats about three or four bridges too far in any chain of logic.---we might as well be discussing if the helicopter was downed by little green creatures from Pluto---maybe now enraged now that we no longer call their world a planet. Given the scanty evidence, that would be equally logical for a thread summary.

Then you have the gall to ask me---What did YOU do yesterday to make the world a safer place? just curious...

Well, palehorse74, as a matter of fact I tried to debunk your poisonous war mongering trolling on this forum----and if this can make a TINY dent in the probability GWB will decide to widen this Iraq war to
include Iran---its well worth it.----I just wish people of better logic could have stopped the US from invading Iraq in the first place.--or that I was on this forum to do my bit then.

But I will end this post with a question posed on could it be old left over Afghani stinger missiles downing this helicopter----someone correct me if I am wrong---but I believe the 20+ year old missiles required special batteries that have by now long ago lost their original charge.----but more modern stingers that find their way in insurgent hands could still be lethal.

 

[kage69]

But I will end this post with a question posed on could it be old left over Afghani stinger missiles downing this helicopter----someone correct me if I am wrong---but I believe the 20+ year old missiles required special batteries that have by now long ago lost their original charge.----but more modern stingers that find their way in insurgent hands could still be lethal.

The Chinese knock-off batteries are compatible with the older American launchers if I recall correctly.

 

[Aimster]

Iran
China
Russia

all have Stinger clones.

The helicopters were taken out with something else, watch the videos if your heart can take it.

 

[tomywishbone]

Originally posted by: Czar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9MMUkklO_s
heeere we go

:beer:

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
To palehorse64 who bleats---I don't see this thread blaming anyone..

You must have missed the thread summary---Is Iran giving the insurgents advanced anti air weapons?

When its not even established that a missile was used, regardless of source---and now the topic summary implies we rush off and even discuss is Iran responsible---thats about three or four bridges too far in any chain of logic.---we might as well be discussing if the helicopter was downed by little green creatures from Pluto---maybe now enraged now that we no longer call their world a planet. Given the scanty evidence, that would be equally logical for a thread summary.

hmm, that's very intriguing. I was not aware of the fact that Iraq borders Pluto. I was also not aware of the fact that Pluto was populated by little green creatures. That's absolutely fascinating analytical work there Mr Spock! Good job!

Now, back down here on earth, we do what is called "logical analysis." So, in this case, it is absolutely possible, and logical, to question whether or not Iran has a hand in any events taking place in Iraq. In fact, If I were a commander over there, it might be one of my priority requirements; that is, to discover and counteract Iran's activities in my AO...

Then you have the gall to ask me---What did YOU do yesterday to make the world a safer place? just curious...

Well, palehorse74, as a matter of fact I tried to debunk your poisonous war mongering trolling on this forum----and if this can make a TINY dent in the probability GWB will decide to widen this Iraq war to include Iran---its well worth it.----I just wish people of better logic could have stopped the US from invading Iraq in the first place.--or that I was on this forum to do my bit then.

mannn, your parents must be proud! you really hang your little tushie out there on a daily basis, don't ya? I think you deserve a medal for valor! I was crazy to think that you've played no part in making this world a safer place...sheesh... thanks for clearing that up! Let me shake your hand...

But I will end this post with a question posed on could it be old left over Afghani stinger missiles downing this helicopter----someone correct me if I am wrong---but I believe the 20+ year old missiles required special batteries that have by now long ago lost their original charge.----but more modern stingers that find their way in insurgent hands could still be lethal.

Yes, that is one possibility... out of many. Ya know, if you keep that up, you'll make a real fine analyst some day! or not...

 

[amish]

Modern, tandem-seat, armoured and damage-resistant combat helicopter; is required to continue flying for 30 minutes after being hit by 12.7 mm bullets coming from anywhere in the lower hemisphere plus 20º; also survives 23 mm hits in many parts...Main rotor blades (by Tool Research and Engineering Corporation, Composite Structures Divisions) tolerant to 23 mm cannon shells

Text

i don't think any AK is going to bring down an Apache, however i didn't watch the video.

 

[nullzero]

Originally posted by: amish

Modern, tandem-seat, armoured and damage-resistant combat helicopter; is required to continue flying for 30 minutes after being hit by 12.7 mm bullets coming from anywhere in the lower hemisphere plus 20º; also survives 23 mm hits in many parts...Main rotor blades (by Tool Research and Engineering Corporation, Composite Structures Divisions) tolerant to 23 mm cannon shells

Text

i don't think any AK is going to bring down an Apache, however i didn't watch the video.

Seems like the apache is like a flying tank , I would think multiple RPGs or a SAM would be needed to take down a Apache.

 

[fornax]

Most of the helicopters in Iraq fly very fast and very low. This is a good defense against SAMs and AK/machine guns, but makes it easier for a competent fighter armed with an RPG.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: amish

Modern, tandem-seat, armoured and damage-resistant combat helicopter; is required to continue flying for 30 minutes after being hit by 12.7 mm bullets coming from anywhere in the lower hemisphere plus 20º; also survives 23 mm hits in many parts...Main rotor blades (by Tool Research and Engineering Corporation, Composite Structures Divisions) tolerant to 23 mm cannon shells

Text

i don't think any AK is going to bring down an Apache, however i didn't watch the video.

It happened in 2003. All you have to do is hit a hydraulic line. It's not something that's easy to do but it can and has happened in the past.

Helicopters are by their nature extremely unstable and fragile machines, much more so than an airplane.

 

[nullzero]

Update the Apache was indeed shot down by heavy machine gun fire.

"BAGHDAD ? A U.S. army helicopter crashed Friday in a hail of gunfire north of Baghdad, police and witnesses said ? the fourth lost in Iraq in the last two weeks. The U.S. command said two crew members were killed, and the top U.S. general conceded that insurgent ground fire has become more effective."

"One helicopter was struck by heavy machine gunfire but continued flying, the witnesses said. The other helicopter banked sharply and flew back toward the source of fire, apparently to attack the target.

But that helicopter was also struck by ground fire, exploded in a ball of fire and crashed, the witnesses said. The other helicopter flew away, they said. The witnesses spoke on condition of anonymity, fearing for their own safety."
http://www.thestar.com/News/article/177732

The insurgents may know the exploits of our helicopters and using them to full advantage.

 

[tomywishbone]

I too doubt it was AK47 fire, even numerous AK's, but armor piercing 7.62 ammo can easily penetrate the armor of any helicopter ever built.

If the weapon used was a .50 cal aka 12.7 mm w/armor peircing ammo, the bullets could go in one side, and straight out the other side. That stuff is almost unstoppable.

Ouch

 

[JackStorm]

Originally posted by: Czar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9MMUkklO_s
heeere we go

He has a point there. They're just asking. It's not like they're trying to plant a suggestion in peoples minds by saying it.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Hell, there are well over 1000 Stingers that we gave the Mujahadein in Afghanistan to use against the Russkies -
most of which are still unacounted for,

Ever hear of 'Blow-back' ?