5th Circuit Upholds Texas Abortion Regulations

[Paratus]

By your "logic", since life has a 100% probability of resulting in death, no one should be having sex at all.

So they let you out huh?


It's not my logic. An egg doesn't implant, no harm no foul.

Conservative logic. Dead baby.

So how many kids should conservative couples be allowed to kill in order to have children?

If it's more than 0 why is it ok to kill these kids and not real babies that have been born?

I mean if conservatives aren't going to take responsibility for their dead kids why should they expect some hypothetical woman who is seeking a first trimester abortion?

 

[Paratus]

Slave owners probably had the same opinions on blacks.

What side of history do we wish to be on? What do we want to tell our kids and grandkids?

That all life is precious and deserves to be protected?

Or only certain forms of life are precious?

How about the side of history that doesn't require 9 year olds to give birth to their rapist step-fathers twins.

Or maybe the side of history where the state DOESN'T try to keep your dead wife alive to incubate a dieing malformed fetus.

Or maybe one where conservative teens aren't forced to throw their babies in dumpsters or be disowned.

Or one where every parent doesn't have to kill kids while trying to have them.

 

[Texashiker]

How about the side of history that doesn't require 9 year olds to give birth to their rapist step-fathers twins.

Or maybe the side of history where the state DOESN'T try to keep your dead wife alive to incubate a dieing malformed fetus.

Or maybe one where conservative teens aren't forced to throw their babies in dumpsters or be disowned.

Or one where every parent doesn't have to kill kids while trying to have them.

There are exceptions to the rule

As for throwing the babies in a dumpster, a number of states are adopting baby Moses laws. A baby can be handed over at a police department, hospital, fire department,,,, somewhere safe for the baby, and the mother can walk away.

 

[Paratus]

There are exceptions to the rule

As for throwing the babies in a dumpster, a number of states are adopting baby Moses laws. A baby can be handed over at a police department, hospital, fire department,,,, somewhere safe for the baby, and the mother can walk away.

Yet your argument is that a fertilized egg is a child. I can't think of another time where it's ok to kill a child or allow a child to be killed. So why are there exceptions for eggs an fetuses but not born children?

 

[Texashiker]

Yet your argument is that a fertilized egg is a child.

According to you a clump of cells are not living creatures?

Why is there a fine or prison for destroying a bald eagle egg? Its just a clump of cells, so it is not an eagle. You honestly think a judge or jury would believe that argument?

Hawks are protected. Go destroy a nest of hawk eggs and see what the law thinks about that. You think the game warden is going to believe your argument that the contents of the eggs were not hawks?

If humans were endangered, you bet your life having an abortion would be prohibited by law. But because we breed like rats there is no shortage.

We excuse our selective slaughter with the shield of law.

So why are there exceptions for eggs an fetuses but not born children?

For the same reason why we had forced sterilization and eugenics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization#United_States

The United States was the first country to concertedly undertake compulsory sterilization programs for the purpose of eugenics

If someone is dumb enough not to prevent unwanted pregnancies, and can not provide for their children, they should not be having children to start with.

It is better to kill that unborn child then to allow it to be born and add out the undesirable population.

The eugenics program was phased out. So it had to be replaced with something else. Why do you think planned parenthood focuses on low income areas?

 

[Atomic Playboy]

TH, that was a delightful rant against an argument that literally no one has made. Well done. But getting back to the question at hand, where do you stand on abortions in the case of rape or incest, situations where the woman never intended to become pregnant or even have sex, but became pregnant through literally no fault of her own? You said there should be exceptions, but if you truly believe that an embryo is a child, then even if it was the product of rape, you shouldn't be in favor of killing it, correct? So which of the two statements would you say defines your position?

A. A fertilized egg is a human being and should not be killed unless it is a product of rape/incest which the woman did not willingly participate in.

B. If a rape results in pregnancy, the victim should be required to bring the pregnancy to term and give birth (they can still give the child up for adoption/foster care).

 

[Texashiker]

So which of the two statements would you say defines your position?

A. A fertilized egg is a human being and should not be killed unless it is a product of rape/incest which the woman did not willingly participate in.

B. If a rape results in pregnancy, the victim should be required to bring the pregnancy to term and give birth (they can still give the child up for adoption/foster care).

To be truthful and honest, I am torn on those topics.

Emotional issues

Woman is raped, gets pregnant, why should a child have to die? But then again, why should a child have to live knowing it is the product of a rape?

I know a young woman in her mid-20s who claims her mother was raped. I kinda doubt it, more like her mother had sex with any guy that would mount her fat ass.

But anyway, the young lady has emotional problems. I wonder who many of her problems are from her dealing with the emotional burden that she is the product of a rape?

I am sure a good number of children produced from rape will do just fine later in life. But how many will deal with depression for the rest of their lives?

Making the father take responsibility

If the rapist is caught, lets say a college student who raped a woman at a party. Why should he get off so light?

Why not make him take responsibility for his actions for the next 18 years? Send him to prison for a few years, then make him pay child support. Drag him into child support court every few years and make him take responsibility for the child he made.

To me, the mother having an abortion from rape is letting the guy off easy. You did this, you made this child, now take responsibility for your actions.

 

[MrPickins]

To be truthful and honest, I am torn on those topics.

Emotional issues

Woman is raped, gets pregnant, why should a child have to die? But then again, why should a child have to live knowing it is the product of a rape?

I know a young woman in her mid-20s who claims her mother was raped. I kinda doubt it, more like her mother had sex with any guy that would mount her fat ass.

But anyway, the young lady has emotional problems. I wonder who many of her problems are from her dealing with the emotional burden that she is the product of a rape?

I am sure a good number of children produced from rape will do just fine later in life. But how many will deal with depression for the rest of their lives?

Making the father take responsibility

If the rapist is caught, lets say a college student who raped a woman at a party. Why should he get off so light?

Why not make him take responsibility for his actions for the next 18 years? Send him to prison for a few years, then make him pay child support. Drag him into child support court every few years and make him take responsibility for the child he made.

To me, the mother having an abortion from rape is letting the guy off easy. You did this, you made this child, now take responsibility for your actions.

I notice you don't seem to have any concern for the woman who was raped. :hmm:

 

[Atomic Playboy]

To be truthful and honest, I am torn on those topics.

Emotional issues

Woman is raped, gets pregnant, why should a child have to die? But then again, why should a child have to live knowing it is the product of a rape?

I know a young woman in her mid-20s who claims her mother was raped. I kinda doubt it, more like her mother had sex with any guy that would mount her fat ass.

But anyway, the young lady has emotional problems. I wonder who many of her problems are from her dealing with the emotional burden that she is the product of a rape?

I am sure a good number of children produced from rape will do just fine later in life. But how many will deal with depression for the rest of their lives?

Making the father take responsibility

If the rapist is caught, lets say a college student who raped a woman at a party. Why should he get off so light?

Why not make him take responsibility for his actions for the next 18 years? Send him to prison for a few years, then make him pay child support. Drag him into child support court every few years and make him take responsibility for the child he made.

To me, the mother having an abortion from rape is letting the guy off easy. You did this, you made this child, now take responsibility for your actions.

Indeed, it's a complicated issue, and one that ideally would never happen in the real world. I am curious; you didn't mention the rape victim at any point. Do you have any concern for her well-being and the mentality of asking her to carry a pregnancy to term for nine months that serves as a constant reminder of the crime that was committed against her? How about the medical costs associated with pregnancy and delivery? What about time away from work, or potentially impacting the carrying out of normal work duties such as heavy lifting or travel? What if she is interested in conceiving with her husband but has to put that on hold to carry the rape pregnancy to term? What if she is extremely young and carrying a pregnancy to term could threaten her life? Do you have any thoughts about what the victim has to go through and does it influence your opinion on a potential abortion in any way?

 

[Victorian Gray]

To be truthful and honest, I am torn on those topics.

Emotional issues

Woman is raped, gets pregnant, why should a child have to die? But then again, why should a child have to live knowing it is the product of a rape?

I know a young woman in her mid-20s who claims her mother was raped. I kinda doubt it, more like her mother had sex with any guy that would mount her fat ass.

But anyway, the young lady has emotional problems. I wonder who many of her problems are from her dealing with the emotional burden that she is the product of a rape?

I am sure a good number of children produced from rape will do just fine later in life. But how many will deal with depression for the rest of their lives?

Making the father take responsibility

If the rapist is caught, lets say a college student who raped a woman at a party. Why should he get off so light?

Why not make him take responsibility for his actions for the next 18 years? Send him to prison for a few years, then make him pay child support. Drag him into child support court every few years and make him take responsibility for the child he made.

To me, the mother having an abortion from rape is letting the guy off easy. You did this, you made this child, now take responsibility for your actions.

Apparently you're not that torn.

You talk about the offspring of a rape and their potential 'problems'.

You talk of the rapist and his 'responsibilities'.

And then you briefly mention that the woman who has to first endure the rape, being treated as little more than a meatsack by the shit that raped her, and then, in your eyes, she should just suck it up and bear the result of that violation for 9 months, deliver it and make the rapist pay child support.

You sir, are about as disgusting an example of humanity as I've ever had the misfortune of dealing with.

 

[MrPickins]

Apparently you're not that torn.

You talk about the offspring of a rape and their potential 'problems'.

You talk of the rapist and his 'responsibilities'.

And then you briefly mention that the woman who has to first endure the rape, being treated as little more than a meatsack by the shit that raped her, and then, in your eyes, she should just suck it up and bear the result of that violation for 9 months, deliver it and make the rapist pay child support.

You sir, are about as disgusting an example of humanity as I've ever had the misfortune of dealing with.

The rape victim clearly needs to take responsibility for her actions.

 

[ivwshane]

The rape victim clearly needs to take responsibility for her actions.

Except she can't get an abortion because that's not taking responsibility in TH's, fucked up, distorted mind.

 

[Texashiker]

I notice you don't seem to have any concern for the woman who was raped. :hmm:

You sir, are about as disgusting an example of humanity as I've ever had the misfortune of dealing with.

Whats done is done. The world is full of atrocities.

<rhetorical questions>

What do you tell a person who was falsely accused of a crime, loses his job, loses reputation, wife or husband files for divorce,,,.

What do you tell a person who loses their job because the CEO made some bad decisions. That person loses their home, cars get repoed,,,, goes from having a nice job to welfare.

</rhetorical questions>

You tell those people to suck it up, it's part of life.

Do not play the victim card to excuse the murder of a child.

 

[MrPickins]

...A bunch of crap...

Self proclaimed protector of women here, folks!

 

[Texashiker]

Self proclaimed protector of women here, folks!

Never said I was a protector of women.

Child support laws say the welfare of the non-custodial parent can not be taken into consideration. In other words, the state or the court is concerned how the non-custodial parent is going to pay their bills after paying child support. The welfare of the child comes first and foremost.

When protecting an unborn child, why should we consider the welfare of the mother?

When dads are thrown into a meat grinder and squeezed for every last penny the state can get, why should mothers get special treatment?

 

[MrPickins]

Never said I was a protector of women.

Your memory may be short, but the forum history isn't:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2360260&highlight=women
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2370050&highlight=women

Child support laws say the welfare of the non-custodial parent can not be taken into consideration. In other words, the state or the court is concerned how the non-custodial parent is going to pay their bills after paying child support. The welfare of the child comes first and foremost.

When protecting an unborn child, why should we consider the welfare of the mother?

When dads are thrown into a meat grinder and squeezed for every last penny the state can get, why should mothers get special treatment?

An eye for an eye, huh?

Because some men get figuratively raped in divorce proceedings, it's OK do the same to a woman who has already had it done to her literally?



Look, I know you have issues with letting things from your past go, but you really need to get over how you made out in the divorce I can only assume you've experienced (based on your fixation with it).

 

[Atomic Playboy]

When protecting an unborn child, why should we consider the welfare of the mother?

Because the law considers embryos and fetuses different than born humans. If the law treated fetuses the same as born humans, abortion would be illegal, sure. But if the law considered fetuses the same as born humans, any woman who had a miscarriage would be guilty of involuntary manslaughter. If fetuses were treated the same as born humans, people could sign up for child assistance benefits as soon as they got pregnant. If fetuses were treated the same as born humans, they'd count as a dependent for tax credits with the IRS. If fetuses were treated the same as born humans, they'd be counted in the census. If fetuses were treated the same as born humans, we'll need to start issuing social security numbers at conception. If fetuses were treated the same as born humans, would pregnancies conceived outside the US even be citizens (no unprotected sex on that honeymoon, kids)?

Another question for you, and I don't mean this to sound like a personal attack (it isn't meant to be): You've mentioned the contraceptive needs of your daughter here before. In a strictly hypothetical scenario, if your daughter was raped and got pregnant from the act, would you consider her welfare when discussing her options? I ask because the statement "why should we consider the welfare of the mother?" comes off as incredibly callous, and I find it difficult to believe you would maintain that attitude with someone you cared about as opposed to whatever random woman you've conjured up when imagining who gets abortions. How would you respond to a loved one considering an abortion in the face of an unimaginable tragedy like rape?

 

[Texashiker]

Because the law considers embryos and fetuses different than born humans.

Go break some bald eagle eggs and see how the law treats you.

They are just embryos and do not deserve protection,,, right?

if your daughter was raped and got pregnant from the act, would you consider her welfare when discussing her options?

I honestly do not know.

 

[theeedude]

Back alley abortions coming back in Texas and elsewhere.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/03/back-alley-abortions_n_5065301.html
or as GOP would call it:

Mission Accomplished!

 

[thraashman]

Back alley abortions coming back in Texas and elsewhere.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/03/back-alley-abortions_n_5065301.html
or as GOP would call it:

Mission Accomplished!

I think we've known for some time that as far as the GOP is concerned fetuses are people, but the women who carry them and anyone who is poor are not people.

 

[TerryMathews]

Go break some bald eagle eggs and see how the law treats you.

They are just embryos and do not deserve protection,,, right?

Don't get me wrong I like the argument and it does raise an interesting hypocrisy in the law however there is a significant difference because you can't capture the Bald Eagle's wishes like you can the woman.

A much better example of the hypocrisy of the law is how a man can be guilty of two counts of murder for killing a pregnant woman.

 

[nehalem256]

Back alley abortions coming back in Texas and elsewhere.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/03/back-alley-abortions_n_5065301.html
or as GOP would call it:

Mission Accomplished!

Which is quite possibly the dumbest argument ever invented. And essentially rationalizes away all laws.

If we pass a law people will break that law and might be at a greater risk of injury while doing so therefore we should eliminate all laws in the interest of public safety! :twisted:

 

[MrPickins]

Which is quite possibly the dumbest argument ever invented. And essentially rationalizes away all laws.

If we pass a law people will break that law and might be at a greater risk of injury while doing so therefore we should eliminate all laws in the interest of public safety! :twisted:

In case you've forgotten, the supposed impetus behind this bill was to protect women.

How can you continue to back it when it will lead to women being forced to Mexico for the procedure when they are unable to exercise their rights here in the US?

Keep in mind this also disproportionately affects poor and hispanic women.

 

[thraashman]

Which is quite possibly the dumbest argument ever invented. And essentially rationalizes away all laws.

If we pass a law people will break that law and might be at a greater risk of injury while doing so therefore we should eliminate all laws in the interest of public safety! :twisted:

So I now expect you to jump in and support increased gun control whenever anyone uses this exact same argument against gun control.

 

[theeedude]

Which is quite possibly the dumbest argument ever invented. And essentially rationalizes away all laws.

If we pass a law people will break that law and might be at a greater risk of injury while doing so therefore we should eliminate all laws in the interest of public safety! :twisted:

The argument that the cure is worse than the disease is not dumb at all.
That argument did away with the prohibition, and is starting to do away with the war on drugs.