5ms still produces motion blur

[WaitingForNehalem]

Well it's dated March 20, 2006 and they still haven't come out. Display technology is good (or should I say cool looking) enough for consumers that the progression of technology has become stagnant. They're flat and shiny and that's what people want which is sad. I'd take function over form any day.

 

[SunnyD]

Don't think of it as motion-blur/lag/ghosting... think of it as "free antialiasing".

 

[CP5670]

SED is basically dead. The technology was mired in a patent lawsuit, last I heard. At this point, I doubt it will ever appear in mass market consumer displays. OLED is looking a lot more promising.

Well it's dated March 20, 2006 and they still haven't come out. Display technology is good (or should I say cool looking) enough for consumers that the progression of technology has become stagnant. They're flat and shiny and that's what people want which is sad. I'd take function over form any day.

That's the good thing about OLEDs. They will be more flat and shiny. I expect OLED to eventually take over the market not because of its improved image quality, but because its screens can be made very thin, much more so than LCDs.

 

[WaitingForNehalem]

Originally posted by: SunnyD
Don't think of it as motion-blur/lag/ghosting... think of it as "free antialiasing".

LOL

They will be more flat and shiny.

I guess there will be a market for them. Not for their picture but for their looks.

 

[exar333]

Get a better monitor.

/thread

Why get a monitor that cost less than half of just the CPU in your sig and then complain about it? That's like buying a Ferrari and sticking $30 bargain tires on and then complaining about the cornering.

For every "FPS" purist who decries LCD screens for their "motion blur" and "ghosting" there are 1,000 who love the fact their display is brighter, doesn't cause migraines, has many more options (inputs, etc) and takes up considerably less space.

Edit: Oh, BTW, I came from a high-end CRT and loved the old Hyundai LD+ when it was released and then recently upgraded to the S-PVA Dell I have now. Input lag, never noticed it myself. Lesson learned - try it out yourself and see if you like it; don't let others tell you what they "see" or not. Lots of FUD in this thread.

 

[exar333]

Originally posted by: SniperWulf
dude... you probably paid more for your triple channel ram kit than your monitor... reminds me of that saying "you get what you pay for"

+1. (My response was very similar...sorry I didn't give credit sooner.)

 

[WaitingForNehalem]

Originally posted by: ExarKun333
Get a better monitor.

/thread

Why get a monitor that cost less than half of just the CPU in your sig and then complain about it? That's like buying a Ferrari and sticking $30 bargain tires on and then complaining about the cornering.

For every "FPS" purist who decries LCD screens for their "motion blur" and "ghosting" there are 1,000 who love the fact their display is brighter, doesn't cause migraines, has many more options (inputs, etc) and takes up considerably less space.

Edit: Oh, BTW, I came from a high-end CRT and loved the old Hyundai LD+ when it was released and then recently upgraded to the S-PVA Dell I have now. Input lag, never noticed it myself. Lesson learned - try it out yourself and see if you like it; don't let others tell you what they "see" or not. Lots of FUD in this thread.

Maybe because it's a flaw of the technology, not the monitor. To all you people who think this thread is useless, LEAVE! Just because you don't see the flaws doesn't mean this thread is pointless. For a LCD, my monitor is great. No dead pixels, 5ms response, HDCP DVI, looks nice. That's not my issue though, it's LCD's in general.

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: CP5670
SED is basically dead. The technology was mired in a patent lawsuit, last I heard. At this point, I doubt it will ever appear in mass market consumer displays. OLED is looking a lot more promising.

Well it's dated March 20, 2006 and they still haven't come out. Display technology is good (or should I say cool looking) enough for consumers that the progression of technology has become stagnant. They're flat and shiny and that's what people want which is sad. I'd take function over form any day.

That's the good thing about OLEDs. They will be more flat and shiny. I expect OLED to eventually take over the market not because of its improved image quality, but because its screens can be made very thin, much more so than LCDs.

OLEDs can eventually be really cheap to make, and are already: super thin, super light, lower power consumption, no ghosting or bluring or other such issues, infinite contract ratio (aka, perfectly black blacks), transparent, foldable, see through, opaque, etc... they are just such an amazing leap in display technology, they will be used eveywhere...

 

[WaitingForNehalem]

Originally posted by: taltamir

Originally posted by: CP5670
SED is basically dead. The technology was mired in a patent lawsuit, last I heard. At this point, I doubt it will ever appear in mass market consumer displays. OLED is looking a lot more promising.

Well it's dated March 20, 2006 and they still haven't come out. Display technology is good (or should I say cool looking) enough for consumers that the progression of technology has become stagnant. They're flat and shiny and that's what people want which is sad. I'd take function over form any day.

That's the good thing about OLEDs. They will be more flat and shiny. I expect OLED to eventually take over the market not because of its improved image quality, but because its screens can be made very thin, much more so than LCDs.

OLEDs can eventually be really cheap to make, and are already: super thin, super light, lower power consumption, no ghosting or bluring or other such issues, infinite contract ratio (aka, perfectly black blacks), transparent, foldable, see through, opaque, etc... they are just such an amazing leap in display technology, they will be used eveywhere...

What about the lifespan, especially blues. They supposedly degrade rapidly.

 

[v8envy]

Well, that depends on how cheap and modular the OLED part can be made. If it was a user serviceable part which lasted say 2 years and cost $50 I wouldn't care too much. It'd be like a DLP bulb -- something you know is going to die, and figure into the cost of ownership.

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: WaitingForNehalem

Originally posted by: taltamir

Originally posted by: CP5670
SED is basically dead. The technology was mired in a patent lawsuit, last I heard. At this point, I doubt it will ever appear in mass market consumer displays. OLED is looking a lot more promising.

Well it's dated March 20, 2006 and they still haven't come out. Display technology is good (or should I say cool looking) enough for consumers that the progression of technology has become stagnant. They're flat and shiny and that's what people want which is sad. I'd take function over form any day.

That's the good thing about OLEDs. They will be more flat and shiny. I expect OLED to eventually take over the market not because of its improved image quality, but because its screens can be made very thin, much more so than LCDs.

OLEDs can eventually be really cheap to make, and are already: super thin, super light, lower power consumption, no ghosting or bluring or other such issues, infinite contract ratio (aka, perfectly black blacks), transparent, foldable, see through, opaque, etc... they are just such an amazing leap in display technology, they will be used eveywhere...

What about the lifespan, especially blues. They supposedly degrade rapidly.

A recent development massively increased lifespan, to more than that of an LCD. But models currently on the market (like the 3000$ and only 11 inch sony monitor) are only good for about 2 years before they start losing pixels. You can expect the monitors you buy in a few years though to last quite a while...

 

[coreyb]

wtf are you talking about? I don't see any motion blur on my monitor at all.

 

[flexy]

the Benq x2200w was one of the BEST purchases i ever made.

The Benq even has this setting "perfectmotion"...but i never use it since in NO game i see a need to turn this on.

I already WASTED hours and hours of my time arguing on other forums with CS hardcore gamers who "see" something which (IMHO) is just not there.
Those people look at a LCD...and then 2 minutes later say "HORRIBLE, its totally unsuitable for gaming".

All those hours debating with those people i NEVER saw anything what those people believe to see...and i stay w/ my statement that this LCD here is one of the best purchases i ever made.

they're complaining about "motion blur" and 60hz...and they actually prefer some garbage 15" CRT over a 22" shiny LCD because the "LCD is not suitable for gaming"


HOWEVER, people....fasten your seatbelts since this year the first 120hz LCDs will come out..and i am very hyped to get one of those for my 3D stuff AS WELL as for gaming. Although i am scared that any of them might not be on par with my BenQ in regards to picture quality...

Edit: Before i got this LCD i was scared ****less from all the horror stories about "LCDs" and gaming. NOTHING, literally nothing has proven to be true.

If there's something like motionblur then (for me) its is extremely insignificant, its a NON issue.

 

[exar333]

Originally posted by: WaitingForNehalem

Originally posted by: ExarKun333
Get a better monitor.

/thread

Why get a monitor that cost less than half of just the CPU in your sig and then complain about it? That's like buying a Ferrari and sticking $30 bargain tires on and then complaining about the cornering.

For every "FPS" purist who decries LCD screens for their "motion blur" and "ghosting" there are 1,000 who love the fact their display is brighter, doesn't cause migraines, has many more options (inputs, etc) and takes up considerably less space.

Edit: Oh, BTW, I came from a high-end CRT and loved the old Hyundai LD+ when it was released and then recently upgraded to the S-PVA Dell I have now. Input lag, never noticed it myself. Lesson learned - try it out yourself and see if you like it; don't let others tell you what they "see" or not. Lots of FUD in this thread.

Maybe because it's a flaw of the technology, not the monitor. To all you people who think this thread is useless, LEAVE! Just because you don't see the flaws doesn't mean this thread is pointless. For a LCD, my monitor is great. No dead pixels, 5ms response, HDCP DVI, looks nice. That's not my issue though, it's LCD's in general.

Really? From your title thread title and summary it would appear you are basing your "I hate LCDs" comment on your inexpensive "5ms" LCD. Everything has flaws. If your LCD doesn't meet your needs, get rid of it. Grab a CRT from Craigslist and be happy.

 

[kmmatney]

Originally posted by: ExarKun333

Originally posted by: WaitingForNehalem

Originally posted by: ExarKun333
Get a better monitor.

/thread

Why get a monitor that cost less than half of just the CPU in your sig and then complain about it? That's like buying a Ferrari and sticking $30 bargain tires on and then complaining about the cornering.

For every "FPS" purist who decries LCD screens for their "motion blur" and "ghosting" there are 1,000 who love the fact their display is brighter, doesn't cause migraines, has many more options (inputs, etc) and takes up considerably less space.

Edit: Oh, BTW, I came from a high-end CRT and loved the old Hyundai LD+ when it was released and then recently upgraded to the S-PVA Dell I have now. Input lag, never noticed it myself. Lesson learned - try it out yourself and see if you like it; don't let others tell you what they "see" or not. Lots of FUD in this thread.

Maybe because it's a flaw of the technology, not the monitor. To all you people who think this thread is useless, LEAVE! Just because you don't see the flaws doesn't mean this thread is pointless. For a LCD, my monitor is great. No dead pixels, 5ms response, HDCP DVI, looks nice. That's not my issue though, it's LCD's in general.

Really? From your title thread title and summary it would appear you are basing your "I hate LCDs" comment on your inexpensive "5ms" LCD. Everything has flaws. If your LCD doesn't meet your needs, get rid of it. Grab a CRT from Craigslist and be happy.

Exactly - try out a better LCD, such as an S-PVA or MVA panel, or get an old CRT. You can often get CRTs for free, we have 4 19" Viewsonic CRTs at work that I can't get anyone to take home. I personally would take the cheapest LCD over a CRT any day - and that's after using a 19" Sony Trinitron for 7 years. It is amusing that you have a such a cheap LCD on such an expensive system. From what I've heard the new LG 20" LCD (2 ms response time) is supposed to be pretty decent.

SEDs will probably never come out for computer monitors, and maybe not for TVs either. Anything based on carbon nanotubes is not ready for prime time. For plasmas, I think its hard to get the pixel sizes down on plasmas, and the burn-in does suck. I have a 50" plasma TV, great colors and refresh rate, but it does have burn-in, even though I tried to be careful about it.

Most people are insensitive to LCD blurring - I haven't really noticed it since LCDs hit 16 ms timings. I also worry more about playing my game, than nitpick my LCD.

 

[QueBert]

Originally posted by: CP5670
SED is basically dead. The technology was mired in a patent lawsuit, last I heard. At this point, I doubt it will ever appear in mass market consumer displays. OLED is looking a lot more promising.

Well it's dated March 20, 2006 and they still haven't come out. Display technology is good (or should I say cool looking) enough for consumers that the progression of technology has become stagnant. They're flat and shiny and that's what people want which is sad. I'd take function over form any day.

That's the good thing about OLEDs. They will be more flat and shiny. I expect OLED to eventually take over the market not because of its improved image quality, but because its screens can be made very thin, much more so than LCDs.

Sadly you're 100% right about the thin being a reason OLEDs will take off. All my neighbors own LCDs and most see my calibrated 22" CRT and are really impressed with the picture. None like the size, which leads me to believe the only reason most have an LCD is because they're small. Well, that and the fact you can't buy CRTs anymore lol.

I have a reserve of 4 22" CRTs incase this one dies and I can't find others easily. I sold 1 24" LCD - an expensive Gateway I paid $675 for. And picked up 4 22" CRT's for $100 off Craigslist. LCDs are still a good few years before I they might be at a spot where they can come close enough to my CRT to make me want to replace it. Being anal about IQ sucks, I tried for almost a month to love the 24" LCD I bought, but I just couldn't.

 

[uclaLabrat]

Originally posted by: WaitingForNehalem

Originally posted by: taltamir

Originally posted by: CP5670
SED is basically dead. The technology was mired in a patent lawsuit, last I heard. At this point, I doubt it will ever appear in mass market consumer displays. OLED is looking a lot more promising.

Well it's dated March 20, 2006 and they still haven't come out. Display technology is good (or should I say cool looking) enough for consumers that the progression of technology has become stagnant. They're flat and shiny and that's what people want which is sad. I'd take function over form any day.

That's the good thing about OLEDs. They will be more flat and shiny. I expect OLED to eventually take over the market not because of its improved image quality, but because its screens can be made very thin, much more so than LCDs.

OLEDs can eventually be really cheap to make, and are already: super thin, super light, lower power consumption, no ghosting or bluring or other such issues, infinite contract ratio (aka, perfectly black blacks), transparent, foldable, see through, opaque, etc... they are just such an amazing leap in display technology, they will be used eveywhere...

What about the lifespan, especially blues. They supposedly degrade rapidly.

Blues are up to about 30-50000 hours I believe, and they're starting to hit the big time. I'd say widely available in about 2-3 years, and probably replaces LCD in about 10. Samsung is ramping up in a big way.

 

[shiznit]

Originally posted by: CP5670I hope so. The whole display market has gone to a complete standstill in the last two years. It seems like there is no demand for anything better.

you are probably right, the sheeple think LCD is amazing and they keep buying it, no reason to innovate.

 

[taltamir]

... except, everyone is working on OLEDs and LCD tech has been getting much better, as well as plasma. and other technologies. New technologies and improvements come out daily, and there are so many different kinds and qualities of LCD monitors its not even funny. You think your el cheapo LCD is a perfect example of the best LCDs can be? fine. Your choice. But you are wrong.
Another thing, LCDs DO have some limitations that CRTs didn't have, and even with them they are vastly superior to CRT in so many other fields that they win overall.

 

[WaitingForNehalem]

Originally posted by: taltamir
... except, everyone is working on OLEDs and LCD tech has been getting much better, as well as plasma. and other technologies. New technologies and improvements come out daily, and there are so many different kinds and qualities of LCD monitors its not even funny. You think your el cheapo LCD is a perfect example of the best LCDs can be? fine. Your choice. But you are wrong.
Another thing, LCDs DO have some limitations that CRTs didn't have, and even with them they are vastly superior to CRT in so many other fields that they win overall.

So your telling me that if I shell out tons of money for an LCD, I'll get one that defies physics and has a response time and input lag that is the same as a CRT?

 

[BenSkywalker]

I already WASTED hours and hours of my time arguing on other forums with CS hardcore gamers who "see" something which (IMHO) is just not there.
Those people look at a LCD...and then 2 minutes later say "HORRIBLE, its totally unsuitable for gaming".

All those hours debating with those people i NEVER saw anything what those people believe to see...and i stay w/ my statement that this LCD here is one of the best purchases i ever made.

Feel blessed that you have very slow vision, it makes shopping for displays so much simpler.

If there's something like motionblur then (for me) its is extremely insignificant, its a NON issue.

Not all people are lucky enough to have extremely slow vision, you should consider yourself forunate.

Exactly - try out a better LCD, such as an S-PVA or MVA panel

How would that improve his situation in the least? His main issue is how slow TN panels are, S-PVA and MVA are quite a bit slower still.

Another thing, LCDs DO have some limitations that CRTs didn't have, and even with them they are vastly superior to CRT in so many other fields that they win overall.

Stuck at native resolution, very sluggish, artifact prone, disgusting contrast, either lousy color reproducion or insanely slow, terrible off angle viewing.... but they are thin

Side by side my CRT(FP2141SB-BK) utterly trounces my 2ms display in terms of crystal clear motion, it really isn't remotely close. I can stomach the LCD as I have been playing non shooters for the most part so the sluggishness of the display isn't that much of an issue, but it is still very clearly there. Any time I swap over to using the CRT for gaming even for a half hour I am shocked coming back at how slow the LCD really is, although I do get used to it after a while.

 

[BassBomb]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Stuck at native resolution, very sluggish, artifact prone, disgusting contrast, either lousy color reproducion or insanely slow, terrible off angle viewing.... but they are thin

Interesting thoughts you have. My monitor does have the bolded problems .

Artifacts is an issue in movie watching (the IPS sparkle effect). And native resolution is not a problem for me (I'll center and black bar if I need to).

But we are all beating a dead horse here.

 

[WaitingForNehalem]

Originally posted by: BassBomb

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Stuck at native resolution, very sluggish, artifact prone, disgusting contrast, either lousy color reproducion or insanely slow, terrible off angle viewing.... but they are thin

Interesting thoughts you have. My monitor does have the bolded problems .

Artifacts is an issue in movie watching (the IPS sparkle effect). And native resolution is not a problem for me (I'll center and black bar if I need to).

But we are all beating a dead horse here.

And you have a very expensive monitor...interesting. I was told that if I shell out tons of money for a new LCD all my problems will go away.Hopefully, 120hz will improve motion on LCD's.

 

[BassBomb]

Originally posted by: WaitingForNehalem

Originally posted by: BassBomb

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Stuck at native resolution, very sluggish, artifact prone, disgusting contrast, either lousy color reproducion or insanely slow, terrible off angle viewing.... but they are thin

Interesting thoughts you have. My monitor does have the bolded problems .

Artifacts is an issue in movie watching (the IPS sparkle effect). And native resolution is not a problem for me (I'll center and black bar if I need to).

But we are all beating a dead horse here.

And you have a very expensive monitor...interesting. I was told that if I shell out tons of money for a new LCD all my problems will go away.Hopefully, 120hz will improve motion on LCD's.

I spent about 650CDN in the end on it I think. It was well worth the investment (I had a 915N 8ms TN panel before)
20WMGX2 refurbs were going for 300USD (a steal if you didn't get a bad panel) when they stopped selling the monitor.
120Hz will only matter if its the actual 120Hz panels and not purely interpolation.

I've only been dissapointed when you are admiring details in textures and are moving slowly (Think Crysis, FarCry) all the details in high res textures then are no longer noticable because of ghosting/blur etc. Not because it is significant but just because it is there the details are lost. I got over this however but that is pretty big

 

[mmnno]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: zerocool84
Spend $$$ on a good display. Problem solved. I would never go with an Acer unless it's their Ferrari or Orange line which look like they have great specs and good reviews.

That won't help. I'm convinced it's a limitation of the technology itself. Costed me thousands on various LCD's and I don't think I'll ever be happy with LCD tech in this area. I own the one of the fastest LCD made and still reference standard at TFT Central and it still sucks on motion blur side of things. CRTs have big problems of their own but motion blur isn't one of them.

It's more a limitation with your eyes. A frame drawn on a CRT starts to disappear immediately, so by the time the next frame starts to be drawn your eyes have had a chance to clear the afterimage caused by the first frame. On an LCD, the first frame is shining full blast at your eyes right up until it is drawn over by the next frame, so the 'image retention' of your retina causes you to see both frames at once for longer.

If OLED behaved the same way as LCD, it wouldn't be any better for people like you. However OLED has CRT-like response time, so black frame insertion is more practical and hopefully can be made more comfortable.