5/1 update: 3 rounds of interviews - wtf is going to happen in the 3rd round?

[BoomerD]

Doesn't sound like a good "promotion" to me.

"Thanks, but I'll have to pass."

 

[Imp]

ROFL. Winner. Di di mao!

 

[Ns1]

Well I voiced my general concern and told them I would have to think about it tonight. I got an email from the uberboss (the guy above my PM and VP) to see if I'd like to chat about it...

 

[BoomerD]

Well I voiced my general concern and told them I would have to think about it tonight. I got an email from the uberboss (the guy above my PM and VP) to see if I'd like to chat about it...

Tell him about the difference in wages/salary...then tell him you don't want your friends and co-workers to think you can't add...

 

[dartworth]

Tell him about the difference in wages/salary...then tell him you don't want your friends and co-workers to think you can't add...

lol

hi boomer:thumbsup:

 

[PenguinPower]

Well I voiced my general concern and told them I would have to think about it tonight. I got an email from the uberboss (the guy above my PM and VP) to see if I'd like to chat about it...

If you turn it down, you'll likely need to start looking elsewhere if you still want to advance your career.

 

[BoomerD]

lol

hi boomer:thumbsup:

How ya been?

 

[Ns1]

So I'm gonna try negotiating for the first time in my life. I'm going to ask for ~12% on top of what they've offered me; I'm okay with potentially not getting the job and continuing doing what I'm currently doing.

Thoughts and tips for negotiating? Remember: I'm an internal promotion, the client is on a deadline, and there have been little (if any) other valid candidates.

 

[PenguinPower]

So I'm gonna try negotiating for the first time in my life. I'm going to ask for ~12% on top of what they've offered me; I'm okay with potentially not getting the job and continuing doing what I'm currently doing.

Thoughts and tips for negotiating?

What's your rationale for the increase over offer? What will you do that deserves that additional 12% (fairly large amount to ask over initial offering)? Your best alternative to no agreement is to continue doing your current job?

 

[Wyndru]

the last time I did a 3rd interview, the hiring manager was in there to help provide information to the VP about who I was. In that job, the VP made the final decision.

I always view interviews as gates. I guess I failed at the last gate. Not that it mattered, I was already working somewhere else by the time they told me.

Every 3rd interview (sometimes 2nd) I've had has been like this. They basically bring you in to introduce you to the higher ups and tell you if you got the job....though I didn't think they brought you in if you didn't get the job, I've always been notified over the phone if I didn't get it.

 

[Ns1]

What's your rationale for the increase over offer? What will you do that deserves that additional 12% (fairly large amount to ask over initial offering)? Your best alternative to no agreement is to continue doing your current job?

1. The offer number is equal to what I'm making right now, even though the new position requires increased responsibilities
2. The job requires long international travel - if they send me across the pond a mere 5 times next year, that will be 200 hours of my life - 200 hours at my current hourly rate is less than the promotional raise they are offering me
3. I am unwilling to commit to 2-3 years of my life at the offered rate, given that my commitment on this current project is almost over and I have not taken any outside offers. If my only option is to take the offer or leave it, I would rather leave it and continue doing what I'm doing, so that I can then put myself on the market in 2-3 months, where I know my going rate for my current position is well above the offered rate

I'm not going to say the following, but...
4. I did not even apply to the position being offered. This is a full on bait and switch - I got the updated job description and it is IDENTICAL to the old job description, except the old one is for a MGR position and the new one is for a supervisor position. I love what I'm doing now and I was only interested in the manager position because I want to manage.

I'm willing to take a lower position than what I applied for, but I'm not willing to make less money for more responsibility.

 

[PenguinPower]

1. The offer number is equal to what I'm making right now, even though the new position requires increased responsibilities
2. The job requires long international travel - if they send me across the pond a mere 5 times next year, that will be 200 hours of my life - 200 hours at my current hourly rate is less than the promotional raise they are offering me
3. I am unwilling to commit to 2-3 years of my life at the offered rate, given that my commitment on this current project is almost over and I have not taken any outside offers. If my only option is to take the offer or leave it, I would rather leave it and continue doing what I'm doing, so that I can then put myself on the market in 2-3 months, where I know my going rate for my current position is well above the offered rate

I'm not going to say the following, but...
4. I did not even apply to the position being offered. This is a full on bait and switch - I got the updated job description and it is IDENTICAL to the old job description, except the old one is for a MGR position and the new one is for a supervisor position. I love what I'm doing now and I was only interested in the manager position because I want to manage.

I'm willing to take a lower position than what I applied for, but I'm not willing to make less money for more responsibility.

What makes you more suited for the position/what value will you add over someone else who will come in at 12% instead of 24%?

Are you considered a HiPo, or does your org even track things like that?

 

[Ns1]

What makes you more suited for the position/what value will you add over someone else who will come in at 12% instead of 24%?

Are you considered a HiPo, or does your org even track things like that?

I have no idea what HiPo is, but I offer inside system knowledge (it's a conversion project and I'm part of the development team, so I know the ins/outs of the system) and systems proficiency that they will not find elsewhere.

They will literally not find anyone else with the information that is inside my head, and IMO it's up to them if that information is worth ~12%.

I understand that they are looking at the numbers from their end, but I gotta look at the numbers on my end too.

i appreciate your feedback btw as it helps me prepare for questions and think through issues.

 

[PenguinPower]

I have no idea what HiPo is, but I offer inside system knowledge (it's a conversion project and I'm part of the development team, so I know the ins/outs of the system) and systems proficiency that they will not find elsewhere.

They will literally not find anyone else with the information that is inside my head, and IMO it's up to them if that information is worth ~12%.

I understand that they are looking at the numbers from their end, but I gotta look at the numbers on my end too.

Sorry...High Potential associate; one identified for future growth within the organization.

It sounds like you have some bargaining power and I would focus more on what you just told me and less on what you told me in your previous post. I understand that you have your own factors playing a part in the decision, but keep those internal and focus on telling them why you are the only/best person suited for the position and that you will add more than the 12% additional compensation in return value.

If you're a high potential, then I think it would be even more likely they would give you the bump since this would be a good development role for you as well.

 

[PenguinPower]

i appreciate your feedback btw as it helps me prepare for questions and think through issues.

No problem. I've had to make quite a few decisions acting on the side that you are bargaining against, and these are the types of questions I would ask.

 

[Ns1]

Sorry...High Potential associate; one identified for future growth within the organization.

this will be my 3rd bump before my 5 year anniversary, so I think I'm doing alright.

No idea if we track that stuff though.

No problem. I've had to make quite a few decisions acting on the side that you are bargaining against, and these are the types of questions I would ask.

Excellent

 

[PenguinPower]

this will be my 3rd bump before my 5 year anniversary, so I think I'm doing alright.

No idea if we track that stuff though.



Excellent

Forgot an important part...I'm not sure what pay structure you all use. I assuming either standard grade or broadbanding. Do you know, roughly, where 12% on top of the offer would put you in that grade/band?

 

[child of wonder]

Guess you really do have to jump companies to get the good numbers.

Not always. I recently got a job offer from a competitor, told my boss about it, he told his bosses, we talked about it, and they gave me a 17% raise to stay.

 

[Ns1]

Forgot an important part...I'm not sure what pay structure you all use. I assuming either standard grade or broadbanding. Do you know, roughly, where 12% on top of the offer would put you in that grade/band?

Nope, which is a concern that I have. If there's political reasons why they can't give me the numbers I'm looking for, I'm willing to take some other concessions [signing bonus, 4/12 workweek(got a great argument for this one)].

I DID take a look at glassdoor and the offer number isn't really competitive IMO, even within the company. No idea how accurate glassdoor really is...

I really like the company though as I feel they treat me pretty well, so I can take some concessions but not THAT much.

 

[PenguinPower]

Nope, which is a concern that I have. If there's political reasons why they can't give me the numbers I'm looking for, I'm willing to take some other concessions [signing bonus, 4/12 workweek(got a great argument for this one)].

I DID take a look at glassdoor and the offer number isn't really competitive IMO, even within the company. No idea how accurate glassdoor really is...

I really like the company though as I feel they treat me pretty well, so I can take some concessions but not THAT much.

I would take glassdoor with a grain of salt. I have some WorldatWork/PWC/Mercer comp surveys I could take a look at for you if you wanted some more relevant information pertaining to your job. If you could give me title and industry and I PM you what I have.

 

[Ns1]

I would take glassdoor with a grain of salt. I have some WorldatWork/PWC/Mercer comp surveys I could take a look at for you if you wanted some more relevant information pertaining to your job. If you could give me title and industry and I PM you what I have.

YGPM

 

[Ns1]

I have lunch with the uberboss and meeting with HR at 6. So many career decisions today...

 

[silverpig]

Well? How'd it go?

 

[Ns1]

lunch with uberboss went great. He said his spiel about why this would be a good move for me, I told him my concerns, and pretty much said "i need more money in order to accept this role because I refuse to make less money to do more work". He understood my concerns and promised to speak to his peers.

I met with HR about half an hour ago. Uberboss has already spoken to people and voiced my concerns and she relayed this info to me; she then went on a long spiel about how it's a great offer for the position, relative to others with the same title. Then some other stuff about "such is life when you move from non-exempt to salary", "ot is not guaranteed", blah blah blah

Well I pretty much said "that's nice and dandy but you made me an offer for a position i didn't apply for, so it is what it is"

we traded some comments back and forth and it came down to the point where we had to throw out numbers: i threw out my desired number and she pretty much said "yeah that's not going to happen". So I told her the lowest number I would take into consideration (does not mean I would accept), and anything less than that is DOA.

she was quite candid and so was I, so the meeting went quick and without BS.

It's out of my hands...for now.

 

[Ns1]

I got a face to face meeting with VP of HR in 20 minutes.