458 vs MP4-12c

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Don Vito Corleone

Don Vito Corleone

Elite
Feb 10, 2000
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I was a little surprised by just how negative they were toward the McLaren. I have to say that while I find Jason Plato a bit of a tool I have no reason to doubt their objectivity, and if I had $200-250K to spend on a weekend plaything I'd buy a 458 over an MP4-12C.
 
Arkaign

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,379
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The MP4 is just unwieldly looking. The F458 is an organic, flowing masterpiece that sounds spectacular and apparently (hope I do someday) drives perfectly. The MP4? It seems to have not lived up to the legendary status of the F1. It's more Susan Boyle than Scarlett Johansen.
 
thescreensavers

thescreensavers

Diamond Member
Aug 3, 2005
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Kinda sad knowing the F1 was and still is one of the best cars ever made.


Why would they have a system on the car that limits what a PRO driver can do on the track? Sure you have Someone who has no idea how to handle a car. But We all know Tiff is experienced. And that just shocked me how the MP4 spit him out of the track because the car thought it was all wrong.
 
disappoint

disappoint

Lifer
Dec 7, 2009
10,132
382
126
thescreensavers said:
Kinda sad knowing the F1 was and still is one of the best cars ever made.


Why would they have a system on the car that limits what a PRO driver can do on the track? Sure you have Someone who has no idea how to handle a car. But We all know Tiff is experienced. And that just shocked me how the MP4 spit him out of the track because the car thought it was all wrong.
Click to expand...

A PRO driver on the track would not be drifting. He would be trying to hold traction as much as possible to get the best lap time. They so obviously tried to make the 458 look better because Ferrari probably offered one for free if they would give it a good review.

Fact is the Mclaren is trying to hold traction using stability control. If they didn't want that, they should turn the stability control off.

Even my car has stability control and it's lots of fun in the snow. Basically you can drive like a maniac in the snow and not lose control. It's great. Well ok maybe not like a maniac, but a lot faster than in any other car I've driven.
 
Arkaign

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,379
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Someone didn't watch the whole video, I am disappoint ;)

They did turn the traction control off, unfortunately the system was lying, even in 'off' state it cut power and proceeded to autobrake, causing Tiff to fly off the track. It has a slo-mo showing what happened.

At the same time, the thing constantly fought with them, even when they weren't hooning it for fun.

Interestingly, Clarkson made the same comment comparing the ZR1 to pre-F458 Ferraris when he said "Ferrari, are you listening?" while noting the ability to disable the electronic nannies on the ZR1. Something Ferrari in fact did with the F458.

Those drivers are both a lot more Pro than you (or I) will ever think about being. And speaking of PRO drivers, most that go for insane lap records disable the electronic nannies anyway. Or they drive cars like the Viper ACR which don't have much of any of that nonsense to begin with.

Oh, and oopsie :

http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/268216/mclaren_mp412c_crash_at_nurburgring.html

Seems like the nannies on the MP4 need serious work. If someone can fling about a time of 7:22 with the Viper ACR in only three tries, but yet the MP4 gets flung off the track by its own computer system, something bad is happening.
 
Arkaign

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,379
126
In short, the nanny computer systems are for ordinary folks, not for pros, with very rare exceptions.
 
disappoint

disappoint

Lifer
Dec 7, 2009
10,132
382
126
Arkaign said:
Someone didn't watch the whole video, I am disappoint ;)

They did turn the traction control off, unfortunately the system was lying, even in 'off' state it cut power and proceeded to autobrake, causing Tiff to fly off the track. It has a slo-mo showing what happened.
Click to expand...

Dude it's car porn, I watched the entire video and didn't blink once.

I'm not talking about traction control, I'm talking about stability control, you DO know the difference right? While they did mention turning off TC, they didn't mention turning off Stability Control, I wonder if the MP4 allows that, it certainly should as my rather inferior by comparison compact sedan has the ability to turn TC and stability control off independently of each other.
 
SSSnail

SSSnail

Lifer
Nov 29, 2006
17,458
83
86
I just think the 5th Gear guys are trying too hard, they're driving the cars NOT like how they're supposed to be driven and then throw their own objectivity into their reviews.
 
Arkaign

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,379
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If you can't tell, I'm being a bit of a hoon myself :) I'm an admitted F458 fanboy, and the MP4 looks ghastly to me compared to the gorgeous Maclaren F1, so I'm enjoying a little bit of this :D
 
thescreensavers

thescreensavers

Diamond Member
Aug 3, 2005
9,916
2
81
disappoint said:
A PRO driver on the track would not be drifting. He would be trying to hold traction as much as possible to get the best lap time. They so obviously tried to make the 458 look better because Ferrari probably offered one for free if they would give it a good review.

Fact is the Mclaren is trying to hold traction using stability control. If they didn't want that, they should turn the stability control off.

Even my car has stability control and it's lots of fun in the snow. Basically you can drive like a maniac in the snow and not lose control. It's great. Well ok maybe not like a maniac, but a lot faster than in any other car I've driven.
Click to expand...


Yes they turned off stability control but still it interfered, watch the video

They did both hooning and trying for a time. We shall see what Jeremy Clarkson has to say about the MP4 this sunday.
 
punjabiplaya

punjabiplaya

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2006
3,495
1
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disappoint said:
A PRO driver on the track would not be drifting. He would be trying to hold traction as much as possible to get the best lap time. They so obviously tried to make the 458 look better because Ferrari probably offered one for free if they would give it a good review.

Fact is the Mclaren is trying to hold traction using stability control. If they didn't want that, they should turn the stability control off.

Even my car has stability control and it's lots of fun in the snow. Basically you can drive like a maniac in the snow and not lose control. It's great. Well ok maybe not like a maniac, but a lot faster than in any other car I've driven.
Click to expand...

PRO driver knows more about feel. It was also slower on the track than the 458.

I had held out on any mp4 reviews, and I had expected it to blitz everything, but I guess not.
 
P

Pariah

Elite Member
Apr 16, 2000
7,357
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disappoint said:
They so obviously tried to make the 458 look better because Ferrari probably offered one for free if they would give it a good review.
Click to expand...

The review took place on the Top Gear test track. I bet Top Gear filmed the cars on the same day. Fifth Gear probably snuck on the track and stole the cars while the Top Gear crew wasn't paying attention. Maybe the McLaren's security system was harder to bypass for the Fifth Gear crew.
 
A

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
0
0
I'm a 458 fanboy as well, it elicits some weird emotions that I don't normally attach to modern automobiles.
 
disappoint

disappoint

Lifer
Dec 7, 2009
10,132
382
126
Admittedly Mclaren took a step back in performance from the F1 with the MP4 as it is heavier and a bit less power than the F1. And the 458 really is a well handling high performing supercar. It is a thing of beauty though I'm not used to the look of those headlights yet.
 
punjabiplaya

punjabiplaya

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2006
3,495
1
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disappoint said:
Admittedly Mclaren took a step back in performance from the F1 with the MP4 as it is heavier and a bit less power than the F1. And the 458 really is a well handling high performing supercar. It is a thing of beauty though I'm not used to the look of those headlights yet.
Click to expand...

you forgot one factor: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
 
PricklyPete

PricklyPete

Lifer
Sep 17, 2002
14,582
162
106
That's too bad for McLaren. I really would have liked to see them put up something at least as good as the 458. They had a lot to live up to after the F1. I'm sure it is still a fantastic car. Maybe a refresh will prove to pull it ahead of the competition.

The styling is a bit bland, but the tech seems awesome...but it looks like the final polish in the drivetrain/suspension tuning/SC programming just isn't there.

I have a feeling that if someone learned the way the computers in the McLaren want you to drive, they could beat the Ferrari around most tracks.
 
M

Monster_Munch

Senior member
Oct 19, 2010
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I would choose the 458 purely on looks even if it was slower. The McLaren looks slightly out of date, like it was designed 10 years ago.
 
9

996GT2

Diamond Member
Jun 23, 2005
5,212
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Monster_Munch said:
I would choose the 458 purely on looks even if it was slower. The McLaren looks slightly out of date, like it was designed 10 years ago.
Click to expand...

Ironically enough the F1 (which was designed 20 years ago) still looks modern by today's standards.
 
Don Vito Corleone

Don Vito Corleone

Elite
Feb 10, 2000
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Monster_Munch said:
I would choose the 458 purely on looks even if it was slower. The McLaren looks slightly out of date, like it was designed 10 years ago.
Click to expand...

The MP4-12C does have a slightly dull, generic-supercar appearance, which is made more problematic by the amazingly swoopy looks of the 458.
 
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