4070TI reviews thread

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BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
2,990
126

First official performance leak. A perfect opportunity to highlight the fraud pushed by nVidia with DLSS.

Performance looks fantastic, right? Look again, at the smallprint - 4070 is using frame generation.

I said exactly this would happen as soon as DLSS 3.0 was announced. 2560x1440 is a lie given it's actually ~1080p due to legacy DLSS. Since nVidia got away with it, the next step is frame interpolation lies. It's "faster", yo!

Adjusting for frame generation (i.e. halve the 4070's bars), it's actually barely faster than the 3080 in MFS, and slower in Warhammer 40K. All this from a card that will likely cost more.

Customers not seeing the smallprint and/or not understanding DLSS are having systematic fraud perpetuated on them.


Reviews



 
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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,860
12,989
146
Built in GPU bracket to prevent sagging?!
It's probably rigid enough, but it actually came with a GPU bracket. The case has screws for what I suspect was an older style of bracket that doesn't technically fit, but the top one is enough, the card holds the bracket in place which keeps it all intact in the way it should be.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
8,036
6,552
136
How much product is AMD pushing into the channel though? NVidia doesn't need to sell a lot of 4070 TIs to be the top card if AMD isn't selling many 79xx cards. Much like the 4080, the 7900 XT is probably getting passed over by a lot of people who'd rather have the top card from their perspective brand.

If the rumors concerning the major performance limiting hardware bug are true, they probably would have cut back on the wafers being allocated to producing Navi 31 dies. Moving away from monolithic GPUs does change the economics, but even during the RDNA2 days when they were far more competitive, AMD was still financially better off making Zen 3 chiplets to put into server CPUs.
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,276
5,180
136
. It's an hd-dvd if that tells you anything.

DhxVYyLUwAAW5KO.jpg
 

Aapje

Golden Member
Mar 21, 2022
1,485
2,048
106
The previous week the reported cumulative numbers showed the 4070 Ti was nearly already the best cumulative seller (just a bit behind 7900XT) of the new generation cards of AMD and NVidia.

With the surge this week it should now be the best cumulative seller of all the new generation cards despite being the last released.

Yes, the new generation sucks. As I've said before, this kind of pricing will mainly cause low sales later on. Traditionally, demand is much higher than supply at first. So you can't really see the true difference at first.

For example, imagine that at price X, you'd have 4000 buyers in the first week, while at price Y, you have 1000 buyers in that first week. Now if the actual supply is 1200 units, then they still only sell 200 units more at price X (20% more). Yet the actual difference in demand is 400% more, but that is invisible due to a lack of supply. A bit later on, when supply has normalized and early demand has been satiated, the impact of these higher prices will be much clearer, even though you can already see it having an impact.

The report you link to is a bit of a joke, BTW. They act amazed that the 7900 XT is selling better than the 7900 XTX right now. Apparently they completely missed the cooler issue with the 7900 XTX??? Surely a lot of potential 7900 XTX buyers are waiting a bit to see if this is fixed on new cards. The supply might not even be there if AMD is taking bad GPU's out of the sales channel, which they should do. And what I see locally is a bunch of people returning the 7900 XTX and opting for Nvidia, so this surely boosts Nvidia's numbers.
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,264
5,260
136
Keep in mind those numbers are from one retailer and the total number of cards from every SKU is around 1k. Not saying the 4070 Ti isn't the best selling card of this generation, just that there's not a lot of evidence there for that.

Mindfactory sales are continual brought up as evidence that AMD is beating Intel in retail...

Yes, it's far from definitive, but it may be some indication that it will be far from the total sales flop like some are portraying.
 

Aapje

Golden Member
Mar 21, 2022
1,485
2,048
106
Yes, it's far from definitive, but it may be some indication that it will be far from the total sales flop like some are portraying.

Keep in mind that for a very dominant market leader like Nvidia it isn't just about beating the competition, but also about total sales volume. So far, AMD seems to have produced a rather mediocre product, while Nvidia has done very well technically.

But like they say, there are no bad products, just bad prices. This is obviously only partially true, but especially in a market driven heavily by upgrades, price/performance really matters. And both companies seem to provide rather a poor price/performance improvement.

So from my perspective the logical result is fairly low overall sales compared to previous generations. Whether you want to classify that as a flop depends on your own definition of that word.
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
7,189
6,045
136
Fwiw, cheaper SKUs should sell more in volume because a larger portion of the market can afford them. At some point, even with stagnant perf/$ against Ampere, if you offer a product at a low enough price where it's within people's budget, it will be sold. For this reason, I fully expect a 4060 to have even higher sales numbers, even if it offers the same perf/$ as a 3070 when it first launched, to sell more than the 4070 Ti.

Nah it's 4060 Ti that's supposed to have the same performance as the 3070 for the same price as the 3070. If it has 12GB of VRAM it could actually maybe be worth buying but will probably have a crappy 8GB too since Nvidia loves planned obsolescence.
 
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Saylick

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2012
3,435
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Nah it's 4060 Ti that's supposed to have the same performance as the 3070 for the same price as the 3070. If it has 12GB of VRAM it could actually maybe be worth buying but will probably have a crappy 8GB too since Nvidia loves planned obsolescence.
If that's true... *gags*

Talk about stagnation.
 

MrTeal

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
3,589
1,754
136
If it's actually 128bit as rumored then 12GB would be off the table, but even if it was 16GB and 3070 performance for $479, would anyone actually be excited about that? It's marginally better than the 6700XT which has a launch MSRP of $479.
I know people don't like saying "X is available for $Y" since different markets having differing prices, but that will probably extend to new cards as well. At least in the US there's 6700XT's sitting around with free shipping for $350, and Newegg even has a 16GB 6800 for $490. Those will obviously sell out eventually, but it's still crap. 3070 performance with some extra VRAM for 3070 pricing 2.5 years later? Hopefully it's not that bad.
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
6,240
2,559
136
I would not put it past nVidia to put 12GB on it. How would they? By using two sizes of RAM chips. Four 1GB, and four 2GB chips. Yes, this means memory performance could be cut in half for those four larger chips. But they have done it before, and I would not be surprised if they do it again.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
8,036
6,552
136
Reminder: They wanted to release a 4080 w/ 12gb vram and it came out as a 4070 ti w/ 12gb of ram. 16gb on a 4060ti seems unlikely. You'll take your 4060 ti w/ 8gb and love it. You'll also have the same people telling how great it is.

I'd agree with you, but last generation we got a 3060 with 12 GB of VRAM that had more than the 3060 Ti, 3070, 3070 Ti, and the original 3080.

The other possibility is they sell two models. A $499 4060 Ti with 8 GB and then a $599+ model with 16 GB.
 

MrTeal

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
3,589
1,754
136
The other possibility is they sell two models. A $499 4060 Ti with 8 GB and then a $599+ model with 16 GB.
Thanks, I hate it.

You would think that with N32 GPUs likely shipping with 16GB (and maybe a cutdown 12?) it would be hard to push an 8GB card at even the $500 price point. Historically having less VRAM hasn't really hurt them at the sales counter though, so I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a 4060 Ti with 8GB. I just hope it's closer to the 3060Ti's MSRP.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,907
5,481
136
Again, AD106 is 128 bit. Which means 4 memory chips only. They won't do clamshell either. Anything more than 8 GB means that the memory size of the chips would have to be more than 2 GB.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,907
5,481
136
Thanks, I hate it.

You would think that with N32 GPUs likely shipping with 16GB (and maybe a cutdown 12?) it would be hard to push an 8GB card at even the $500 price point. Historically having less VRAM hasn't really hurt them at the sales counter though, so I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a 4060 Ti with 8GB. I just hope it's closer to the 3060Ti's MSRP.

I am assuming at this point that N32 only gets a release on desktop if AMD can justify closer to $800.
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
7,189
6,045
136
If it's actually 128bit as rumored then 12GB would be off the table, but even if it was 16GB and 3070 performance for $479, would anyone actually be excited about that? It's marginally better than the 6700XT which has a launch MSRP of $479.

I know people don't like saying "X is available for $Y" since different markets having differing prices, but that will probably extend to new cards as well. At least in the US there's 6700XT's sitting around with free shipping for $350, and Newegg even has a 16GB 6800 for $490. Those will obviously sell out eventually, but it's still crap. 3070 performance with some extra VRAM for 3070 pricing 2.5 years later? Hopefully it's not that bad.

If I could have gotten 3070 performance from Nvidia but with 12GB of VRAM for $500 at Black Friday I would have bought it instead of the 6700 XT I got for $380, as I do think RT is pretty cool. But at 8GB kind of defeats the whole purpose of getting an Nvidia card for RT when RT causes vram usage to go up and 8GB is probably going to start struggling in 1440p even without RT in the next couple of years. So if I'm turning off RT anyways no point to paying the Nvidia premium much less paying more for a card that'll likely age worse than the 6700 XT. And the only game I care about now that I can run RT at 1440p on 3070 8GB but not 6700 XT is Control, so for that one game I'm rendering 1080p to get the RT reflections and RT glass reflections while still being able to maintain 60 fps.
 

Timorous

Golden Member
Oct 27, 2008
1,730
3,188
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I am assuming at this point that N32 only gets a release on desktop if AMD can justify closer to $800.

To justify $800 it would need to match the 7900XT since that is overpriced. If the clocks are high enough I could see that happening and then AMD can EOL the 7900XT (or launch a 7950XT/XTX with respun N31 to fix the V/F curve) but more realistically there will be a bit of a gap between the 7800XT and 7900XT which means I don't see a price above $700 being viable.

In any event $700 the margin should still be higher than 7900XT and 7900XTX which is great for a cheaper higher volume part and given AMD are going to be making lots of N32 dies to service the x800, x700 and laptop segments they should also get some good economies of scale.

So a $700 7800XT, $600 7800, $500 7700XT and $420 7700 might be how it lines up and then N33 based 7600XT can come in around $350 which for a smaller die on a cheaper node than N23 is still a margin increase at a given price point - especially if AMD are selling N22 at $350-400 right now.