4 U.S. governors on jobs: Not enough (qualified/skilled) workers

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Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
Wages weren't a problem when I was searching for a job late last year and early this year. In many cases I had the required skills and more than enough experience. Not having a college degree is what kept me from getting the jobs.

Luckily a recruiter found me via Linkedin and got me an interview. I know have a job that's far better than the one I had before. 30% increase in base salary, better overtime pay, and better benefits. Better health insurance with premiums that are half as much as I was paying before. Funny thing is my current company is not an American company whereas my previous employer was.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
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If there aren't enough skilled workers then why aren't wages in those industries skyrocketing?

http://www.npr.org/2013/06/26/195512274/some-tech-companies-find-ways-not-to-hire-americans
Lawmakers continue to wrangle over a bill that would overhaul the nation's immigration system. One provision in this bill would allow companies to import a lot more skilled workers. The tech industry has lobbied hard for this, despite fears among some American workers about the extra competition.

Illinois Senator Dick Durbin says the bill has American workers covered. "Employers will be given a chance to hire a temporary foreign worker when truly needed. But first, they'll be required to recruit Americans. No exceptions, no excuses," he said.

Still, making companies recruit Americans isn't the same as making them hire them.

If you talk to disgruntled tech workers much, sooner or later one of them is going to send you this video. It shows a Pittsburgh immigration lawyer at what looks like a seminar for clients in 2007. In the video, he's telling clients what to do when they want to sponsor one of their foreign workers for a permanent visa — a green card. The government requires employers to prove they looked for American workers first. So the companies have to advertise the job. But the lawyer tells them they don't have to advertise it too conspicuously.

"Our goal is, clearly, not to find a qualified and interested U.S. worker," the lawyer in the video says. He later adds, "We're going to find a place where ... we're complying with the law and hoping — and likely — not to find qualified and interested worker applicants."

Immigration law firms do this all the time: They show employers how to recruit Americans without actually having to hire them. This lawyer didn't want to talk to NPR, maybe because anti-visa activists have been sending this video around for years. It's Exhibit A in their argument that recruiting rules are a sham.


In the parts of the country where tech companies are prevalent, this kind of "faux recruiting" is common knowledge. But people in the industry quickly learn not to waste their time on certain job listings, says Orion Hughes, a software tester.

"A lot of us are aware of that ruse," he says.
Hughes and others avoid the listings with overly specific requirements, such as the number of years in "the job offered." That often means the employer just wants to make permanent a temporary foreign worker who's already in the job. And if you're stubborn enough to apply anyway, Hughes says that interview is going to be awkward.

"If you want to put yourself in that manager's shoes, it's an uncomfortable situation for them," he says. "They will [have a] kind of a sour facial expression, and they'll go from one question to the next. They are finding some reason to exclude you."

Employers usually go through these motions only when they're sponsoring a foreigner for a permanent visa. But now the Senate immigration bill would extend a similar requirement to temp workers: the foreigners on the H-1B visas which have become so common, and controversial, in lower-end tech jobs. The bill would have employers post those jobs online first, and there'd be more recruiting rules for companies that use H-1Bs a lot. It sounds good, but it's a move that seems to ignore all the ill will that's been generated over the years by insincere recruiting.

"No one is ever hired," says Bruce Morrison, a former Democratic congressman from Connecticut.

Morrison helped design the current work visa system, but now he's an immigration lawyer and a lobbyist. The "good faith" recruiting process, he says, comes with a fundamental flaw, he says.
"Which is, it doesn't start until you've already picked the person you want," Morrison says. "The decision whether to hire an American already happened — and you didn't."

Morrison's one of many experts who've given up on these recruiting rules. But he offers a solution to the problem: Have the government charge employers a heftier fee when hiring a foreigner.

"Create the economic circumstance where it costs you a lot more to hire a foreigner," Morrison says. "And you'll only do it if you can't find an American who's suitable."

The Senate bill takes small steps in this direction, but Morrison thinks it's not nearly enough. The bill actually removes the recruiting rule for some of the permanent visas — and he's happy about that. Morrison's been lobbying to get more green cards to skilled workers. But now it looks like the "recruit-Americans-first" idea is being shifted to temporary visas, the H-1Bs.

That means the tech industry will still be plagued by insincere job listings and bogus interviews, and the undercurrent of resentment that they create.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,606
3,827
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What do the laws of supply and demand say? Good luck convincing corporations that they need to pay free market prices for skilled labor. I'm terribly sorry Obama fixed the economy enough that corporations are having a harder and harder time raping their employees. Hopefully we can get a Republican in the WH to trash the economy so we can all be fearful for our jobs once more and be willing to take it up the ass again.

While not necessarily true for the big companies its not always about 'raping employees'. The laws of supply and demand now stretch outside the country's boarder and many of the almost 30 millions small businesses have to compete with companies based overseas. The place I used to work for has three manufacturing sites in the US and one in Canada. There was not a single other company in the US that made what they made. Yet they almost gone bankrupt twice as lower priced and lower quality competition has grown overseas. Last I heard their biggest customer (A French company) told them that unless they can cut their prices by 15% they are going to go with a Chinese company. Quality isn't nearly as good but they figure they can deal with more defects and still come out ahead. My old company makes high tech components that pretty much everyone on this forum makes use of but they can't afford to pay their engineers more let along cut prices by 15%. They'll probably be out of business soon. Too bad too as they paid well above minimum wage for manufacturing floor positions with full medical, dental and retirement for someone with no experience and a GED
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
37,551
33,288
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While not necessarily true for the big companies its not always about 'raping employees'. The laws of supply and demand now stretch outside the country's boarder and many of the almost 30 millions small businesses have to compete with companies based overseas. The place I used to work for has three manufacturing sites in the US and one in Canada. There was not a single other company in the US that made what they made. Yet they almost gone bankrupt twice as lower priced and lower quality competition has grown overseas. Last I heard their biggest customer (A French company) told them that unless they can cut their prices by 15% they are going to go with a Chinese company. Quality isn't nearly as good but they figure they can deal with more defects and still come out ahead. My old company makes high tech components that pretty much everyone on this forum makes use of but they can't afford to pay their engineers more let along cut prices by 15%. They'll probably be out of business soon. Too bad too as they paid well above minimum wage for manufacturing floor positions with full medical, dental and retirement for someone with no experience and a GED
I'm not sure why you are bringing manufacturing issues into a thread about technical jobs. Corporations are doing everything in their power to avoid paying us what we are worth.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,954
31,501
146
Spend too many years and money on welfare for workers in long-dying, underpaid sectors (coal, for example) rather than working to educating them for the economy that we fucking knew was coming...well, this is what happens. Add to the fact that most of these industries have simply been off-shoring that labor (a wonderfully bi-partisan affair, to be sure) while both parties promise to pay for accumulated lack of skills.

But when those states tend to support the party that promises to hand them free money for their irrelevant skills and pay for it by eliminating their children's and grandchildren's education, well....you get Trump.

Who is only going to make things worse.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
198
106
I got bad news for you...

Example: My wife who is paid by the hour, works 45 hours a week in a nice, clean retail store and makes more than that a year.

I think you are underpaid.

Should look into railroad signal. Sounds similar, except you can start at $27/hr with 0 experience and no education. With excellent benefits and retirement as well. Plenty of postings on indeed.com. Some bring home 90k+ with OT.

100 hours a week? How the hell do you find the time to post?

I think yall pretty much answered my question, yall are not willing to do hazardous or dangerous work in the heat, cold, rain,,,,,.

I work on a tugboat and get every other week off. I make right at $50k a year and work 6 months out of the year.

Yalls response is a reflection of what is wrong with our workforce. Not worth it, could make more somewhere else, underpaid,,,, every excuse you can think of not to do the work.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
I think yall pretty much answered my question, yall are not willing to do hazardous or dangerous work in the heat, cold, rain,,,,,.

I work on a tugboat and get every other week off. I make right at $50k a year and work 6 months out of the year.

Yalls response is a reflection of what is wrong with our workforce. Not worth it, could make more somewhere else, underpaid,,,, every excuse you can think of not to do the work.

LMAO!!!! I work in hazardous locations that are exposed to the weather. When I'm in between assignments I'm guaranteed 40 hours salary a week. In the past 3 months I've already made more than your yearly salary. No way I would take a crappy job at crappy wages.
 

sontakke

Senior member
Aug 8, 2001
895
11
81
What we have is tech companies pushing for more N1 visas so they can bring in more LOWER PAID tech workers -- that's what this is about. There are lots of trained American's but the companies want to bring in lower paid people to do the job. We have outsourcing but we also have insourcing where companies make use of illegals for low skilled workers and N1 visa for lower paid skilled workers. The tech companies complain and the governors carry there water.


Brian

N1 visa? Would you like to expand upon it? I know it can't be a typo because you must have said it million times so far.
 
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Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,986
1,388
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Should look into railroad signal. Sounds similar, except you can start at $27/hr with 0 experience and no education. With excellent benefits and retirement as well. Plenty of postings on indeed.com. Some bring home 90k+ with OT.

Interesting. I may need to look into it. Sick and tired of this office job here.

Have any links/more info?
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
198
106
But seriously. 100 hours a week?

Around 100+ hours in one week, then the next week off.


LMAO!!!! I work in hazardous locations that are exposed to the weather. When I'm in between assignments I'm guaranteed 40 hours salary a week. In the past 3 months I've already made more than your yearly salary. No way I would take a crappy job at crappy wages.

I dont think I was talking to you. How long have you been doing your job? And you compare someone with experience to entry level? No wonder kids do not want to start at the bottom.

Last week while helping dock an ATB, example of an ATB, the second mate on the barge and I had a chance to talk. He makes around $110 a year and works 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off.

The fact still stands, the younger generation does not want to do certain types of work for various reasons.

Londo_Jowo I expected better out of you. I started a new career and you want to trash talk me? Come on.
 
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werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
We wish kids looked at the ROI. The problem is they sign up for a massive loan for an English degree expecting it to all work out because every adult they encountered growing up told them the path to success is going to college and chasing your dreams.

I wish just once someone would have told me "most jobs suck and you will most likely end up doing a job that isn't something you want to do. Just make good decisions so you can get paid well for that misery."
People always tell kids "Do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life." They need to finish it: "Because nobody is ever going to hire you to park your fat ass on the sofa, play X-Box, smoke weed, and diddle yourself."

Anyway, this is Terry McAuliffe. He means he has 30,000 technology jobs open for cheap, non-white foreign workers.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Around 100+ hours in one week, then the next week off.

I dont think I was talking to you. How long have you been doing your job? And you compare someone with experience to entry level? No wonder kids do not want to start at the bottom.

Last week while helping dock an ATB, example of an ATB, the second mate on the barge and I had a chance to talk. He makes around $110 a year and works 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off.

The fact still stands, the younger generation does not want to do certain types of work for various reasons.

Londo_Jowo I expected better out of you. I started a new career and you want to trash talk me? Come on.
Congrats on your new career.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
N1 visa? Would you like to expand upon it? I know it can't be a typo because you must have said it million times so far.
Either H1B or TN1 visa. Shit, guys, you all know he is correct, he just called it the wrong code designation.
 

shady28

Platinum Member
Apr 11, 2004
2,520
397
126
Around 100+ hours in one week, then the next week off.




I dont think I was talking to you. How long have you been doing your job? And you compare someone with experience to entry level? No wonder kids do not want to start at the bottom.

Last week while helping dock an ATB, example of an ATB, the second mate on the barge and I had a chance to talk. He makes around $110 a year and works 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off.

The fact still stands, the younger generation does not want to do certain types of work for various reasons.

Londo_Jowo I expected better out of you. I started a new career and you want to trash talk me? Come on.

This is actually normal for some occupations. People on oil rigs, tankers, merchant ships, fishing boats, on Navy ships, remote oil fields, or pretty much anything where you leave for a few weeks and come back home work those kinds of hours.

The fact some people find it incomprehensible \ unbelievable tells something about them.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,606
3,827
126
My old company makes high tech components that pretty much everyone on this forum makes use of but they can't afford to pay their engineers more

I'm not sure why you are bringing manufacturing issues into a thread about technical jobs.

Engineering jobs are technical jobs. Also the ability to pay workers more or less based on shortages was certainly already being discussed as is supply and demand. Wages, positions and supply and demand are are not just constrained by the US economic conditions which is in direct reply to your comment.
 
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Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,562
1,742
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How do you become skilled.
Employers do not train anymore. You're just going to leave anyway.
In my dads day, you stayed for life.

Times change. You either adapt or you're going to face the consequences.

Why do we insist on living in the past? The 50's are over. Global competition is fierce. You have students from India, China and South Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam who are smarter, hungrier and much more determined to succeed.

You have a guy from Syria who comes to America. Doesn't know anyone and can hardly speak English. This same guy will work 90 hours a week without complaint. Within 10 years he's a frekin millionaire. You have many young Americans who don't like work. Why work when they can watch Netflix and play video games all day? They live at home until they're 30. Then they bitch and complain that they can't find work and that their degree is useless.

Obtaining a degree doesn't guarantee that you'll be successful in life. This is the trap that many of these kids are told. Go to school so you can have a job when you graduate. It's bullshit. It takes an awesome attitude to be successful. It takes determination, hustle and the frekin gratitude that you live in the wealthiest country in America. Where anything is possible. You don't even need a degree to be successful. It helps. But, it's not the determining factor. There are plenty of millionaires who have quit or never went to college.

I know I'm generalizing. There are plenty of Americans who want to work. There are also many immigrants who abuse the system. Yea. I get that. But, there is a ton of truth in my rant. Many young Americans are lazy. They view work as something to avoid. Many want to take the easy way out, but life is neither easy or guaranteed. I blame the educational system and parents. Your child isn't a special snowflake, and they are going to get frekin crushed in this new global economy.
 
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pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,537
5,768
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I read/hear about unemployed and underemployed and how young students are unable to pay their student loans because of no full time good paying jobs with benefits.

What do you guys/gals (ya'll) think? True, Not True, Half True?







http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/03/news/economy/us-governors-job-skills/index.html

.

That's the edited version.
The correct version is "There aren't enough skilled workers who will work for the rates we are want to pay".

Company "XYZ" has plenty of job postings. It's fun to see those postings during the monthly layoff (where number laid off per state are low enough to fall under the WARN threshold of that individual state)

Post job for tech position A.
Ignore or pass over US based applicants. Ignore internal transfers. Make sure posting is worded to rule out large majority of candidates. (15 years experience+PHd+insert all the certifications+the ability speak 8 languages through the use of interpretive dance).
Contract with one of the top 3 offshore firms. Bring in contractors.
Fill position with contractor who has 2 years experience.
Reduce US based staff where possible.

Repeat until contractor\offshore\us based staff target % is met.

The selling point made by the firms is that you are not getting 1 worker. You are leveraging the expertise of the entire staff.
 

alcoholbob

Diamond Member
May 24, 2005
6,390
469
126
Alot of these jobs arent even real job positions. Ive had several former employers who posted job openings because they were obligated by law but their intent all along was to hire an H1B. They would conduct "interviews" to go through the motions when they didnt intend to hire any one they interviewed anyway. Why pay someone $80-90k when you can hire a foreignor for $45k to do a tech job? So you end up with all these foreignors who cram multiple families into tiny apartments in big cities working for big tech firms being paid salaries that woulnt even let a normal person make rent.
 
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pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,537
5,768
136
Alot of these jobs arent even real job positions. Ive had several former employers who posted job openings because they were obligated by law but their intent all along was to hire an H1B. They would conduct "interviews" to go through the motions when they didnt intend to hire any one they interviewed anyway. Why pay someone $80-90k when you can hire a foreignor for $45k to do a tech job? So you end up with all these foreignors who cram multiple families into tiny apartments in big cities working for big tech firms being paid salaries that woulnt even let a normal person make rent.

2 for one special.
Fire employee
Contract out 2 to fill the desk.


You can actually fill positions with stateside folk.
Layoff one full time position
Fill with contract position and then have that person work crazy hours.
You can easily cut pay yet fool the employee they are well paid.
If you are working at one job for 40 hours a week @ 100K and then you move to another job for a 10K raise but you are spending 70hr week at work...congratulations. You just just took a cut in compensation.

Best is with the kids out of college. You set up a pool table and beer in the fridge and you can get those kids to work 16+ hours a days.