[3dcenter] GK104 specs

[Will Robinson]

I'm beginning to doubt very much that 299$ simply because this card will be much faster than the GTX580/HD7950.

lol..you certainly are going to be butt hurt if it isn't.:biggrin:

This is a troll post and not allowed.

Moderator jvroig

 

[Arkadrel]

I'm beginning to doubt very much that 299$ simply because this card will be much faster than the GTX580/HD7950. My assumptions are based on the specs (confirmed by brightsideofthenews).

Lets look at what brightsideofthenews says then:

First and foremost, in NVIDIA's internal nomenclature, this part should be named GeForce GTX 660 (the company is debating GeForce GTX 660, 670 or 680 - and the final verdict will 99% be GTX 680). This is a 349-399 dollar part which in conventional way would replace the 300-dollar "GeForce GTX 560 Ti 2GB", but will offer higher performance than GTX 580.

Looks like Brightsideofthenews thinks it might end up at 399$.....
That ll make it about 50$ cheaper than the 7950.

Continuing with the GK104 GPU, the chip has the same amount of fixed-function logic as competing Tahiti XT - 32 ROPs (Raster OPeration Units) and 128 TMUs (Texture Memory Units). As you can see in our architectural mockup, the decision to go with 256-bit memory controller results in 2GB GDDR5 and this is the only part where NVIDIA really loses to AMD: both 7950 and 7970 come with 3GB GDDR5 memory.

Screw the Video cards memory amount... 2GB vs 3GB = meh, both are enough.

The *real* differnce is the GK104 will be useing 256bit wide bus....
That has to hurt its performance... even the 580 has more memory bandwidth.

My guess? Brightsideofthenews is probably closer to MSR than people saying "299$".

This GK104 will probably end up at 399$ and be a tiny bit faster than a 580/7950.

 

[tviceman]

lol..you certainly are going to be butt hurt if it isn't.:biggrin:

Probably not as "butt hurt" as many AMD fans will be if it's performance is between an hd7950 and hd7970 for $350, i.e. $200 less than an hd7970 for 98% of it's performance.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

I'm beginning to doubt very much that 299$ simply because this card will be much faster than the GTX580/HD7950. My assumptions are based on the specs (confirmed by brightsideofthenews).

So if it's $350 it's still a deal compared to 7970. It probably would of been $300 if not for the fact that AMD priced the 79XX series so ridiculously. That's why I have such issue with amd. They not only raised the premium card prices now the bang for the buck cards are now more expensive.

I'm still not certain the market will sustain this. The enthusiast (big spenders) is a small portion of the gpu buyers. I wonder how many buyers will just scoff at the prices and just say I'll wait till next gen. It's already looking like this will be the first gen I've skipped in all the years I've been pc gaming. Something I'd never expected.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Probably not as "butt hurt" as many AMD fans will be if it's performance is between an hd7950 and hd7970 for $350, i.e. $200 less than an hd7970 for 98% of it's performance.

Touché

 

[BallaTheFeared]

You sure about that?

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/317?vs=313

Nvidia's 460 ($225-$250 release) competed with the 285, which was faster than the 280 that black pointed out released at $650.

I'm expecting GK104 to do the same, compete with the 580 while being in the $300 or less range, perhaps a tad over $300 at release since Nv (reportedly) has nothing else coming out, but once GK100/110 comes out it should have two more sku's, one which will take the place of the 470/570 and the other should take the place of the 480/580 price wise.

I don't see Nv making the same mistake they made with 2xx, sending out rebates probably made them feel stupid.

By the time GK100/110 comes out it should be down to $250ish, making it an appropriately priced x60 product. That $250 could compete with the 7970/7950 relinquishing AMD back into the high $200 low $300 market once again. Which is exactly what Nv wants to do, continue to reduce AMD's ability to have large profit margins.

 

[tviceman]

So if it's $350 it's still a deal compared to 7970. It probably would of been $300 if not for the fact that AMD priced the 79XX series so ridiculously. That's why I have such issue with amd. They not only raised the premium card prices now the bang for the buck cards are now more expensive.

I'm still not certain the market will sustain this. The enthusiast (big spenders) is a small portion of the gpu buyers. I wonder how many buyers will just scoff at the prices and just say I'll wait till next gen. It's already looking like this will be the first gen I've skipped in all the years I've been pc gaming. Something I'd never expected.

Well big Kepler is coming in 3-4 months, and will likely spawn 3 different cards based off of it (like GF100 and GF110, although only 2 cards will be available initially). If GK104's top card costs $350, that would put the 2nd tier big kepler in the $450-500 range, and the top Kepler in the $600-650 range.

So you are right, and those are some pretty big price hikes vs. the last several generations. At this point, I guess the best realistic hope is that GK104 comes in at $319 usd, giving room for 3 GK110 Keplers to be priced at $379, $449, and $599.

I don't see Nv making the same mistake they made with 2xx, sending out rebates probably made them feel stupid.

Nvidia has not put themselves into a position to be able to make that mistake now. It's switched this time so that Nvidia has a chance to put AMD in the position of "unfriendly pricing."

 

[DeeJayeS]

This GK104 will probably end up at 399$ and be a tiny bit faster than a 580/7950.

This. IF GK104 is > or = 7970, NV will price it at or a bit below the 7970s. Rinse and repeat on down the AMD line. Would be shocked and (pleasantly) surprised if they leave $$ on the table when it comes to pricing, at least initially.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Nvidia's in a position to serve AMD with some epic payback... lol here's to hoping we win this round.

 

[Lonyo]

Note to people saying $400 is cheaper than the HD7950:

There is expected to be a $400 HD7950 with 1.5GB RAM.
A $400 GTX6x0 which performs about the same WILL NOT BE $50 CHEAPER THAN A 7950.
To put on pressure, it would need to either be reasonably faster, or cheaper.

A $400 card that performs the same as a $400 card won't do much at all.
Even if it has 2GB RAM vs 1.5GB RAM, it won't make a significant enough difference to cause significant pricing pressure, assuming the expected HD7950 at $400 with 1.5GB RAM appears.

(Which isn't to suggest the GTX6x0 will be $400, but if it is, it won't necessarily be going against a $450 HD7950).

 

[Tempered81]

You sure about that?

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/317?vs=313

Nvidia's 460 ($225-$250 release) competed with the 285, which was faster than the 280 that black pointed out released at $650.

I'm expecting GK104 to do the same, compete with the 580 while being in the $300 or less range, perhaps a tad over $300 at release since Nv (reportedly) has nothing else coming out, but once GK100/110 comes out it should have two more sku's, one which will take the place of the 470/570 and the other should take the place of the 480/580 price wise.

I don't see Nv making the same mistake they made with 2xx, sending out rebates probably made them feel stupid.

By the time GK100/110 comes out it should be down to $250ish, making it an appropriately priced x60 product. That $250 could compete with the 7970/7950 relinquishing AMD back into the high $200 low $300 market once again. Which is exactly what Nv wants to do, continue to reduce AMD's ability to have large profit margins.

Everything about this post makes perfect sense, Balla. But I think nvidia might name the gk104 a Geforce GTX680. They might think that it's fast enough to compete with the 7970. Then 4-5 months from now release the 780 full Kepler - GK100/110/112.

This makes no sense to me, but i still think they might do it. Marketing always throws you a curveball, 9800gtx-gtx280-380?-480... then 580? hd5870-6870-6970-7970?

Agree with you, It would make a lot more sense to name it a x60 part than x80.

 

[Grooveriding]

. $200 less than an hd7970 for 98% of it's performance.

Loooool

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeMFqkcPYcg&ob=av2n


It's waiting on fermi madness 2.0.

 

[Grooveriding]

Everything about this post makes perfect sense, Balla. But I think nvidia might name the gk104 a Geforce GTX680. They might think that it's fast enough to compete with the 7970. Then 4-5 months from now release the 780 full Kepler - GK100/110/112.

This makes no sense to me, but i still think they might do it. Marketing always throws you a curveball, 9800gtx-gtx280-380?-480... then 580? hd5870-6870-6970-7970?

Agree with you, It would make a lot more sense to name it a x60 part than x80.

I think they may as well, nv has always had tricky naming schemes. I am more inclined to think they will just call it a 660 though. 480 to 580 made sense because it was the same chip and AMD went to a higher series number. Going from a mid range card to a real highz end card is a different story.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

All this nvidia pride saying that they are going to dominate AMD based on price/performance relies heavily on AMD not lowering prices to beat nvidia in price/performance. Why do you all seem to think that AMD won't lower prices once competition comes?

If nvidia releases a card that is 98% of the 7970 in 2 months all that AMD has to do is lower their prices to make the supposed gtx680 pointless. It is funny to see all the mindless fanboys speaking of the gtx680 which doesn't exist yet as the deathblow to AMD though. You are all truly delusional.

 

[blackened23]

I think they may as well, nv has always had tricky naming schemes. I am more inclined to think they will just call it a 660 though. 480 to 580 made sense because it was the same chip and AMD went to a higher series number. Going from a mid range card to a real highz end card is a different story.

The difference is with prior generations their "big" gpu spinoff was ready at the same time, this is not the case now. They have GK104 and thats it until Q3 (estimated) so its questionable whether they would call something a 660 and leave a product gap for 6 months. I highly doubt it, I think that GK104 will be the flagship and they will clock it as high as feasibly possible to make it fit. Other sources are stating that GK104 will be the 680, while the GK110 will be the 700 series. Meanwhile, AMD is working on sea islands which supposedly will be released Q4. It would make sense for AMD to release a tahiti refresh since it has such ridiculous clocking headroom, but who knows.

Anyone championing NV as the sudden price performance leader, if thats true great but there shouldn't be any question to why many would be skeptical. NV has always been terrible price/performance with their high end parts, and if the GK104 based GTX 680 is released for 350-399$, great, i'll buy several of them. I remain highly skeptical based on their history.

 

[blackened23]

Nvidia's in a position to serve AMD with some epic payback... lol here's to hoping we win this round.

6870 is better than the GTX 470! :awe: I kid I kid

 

[BallaTheFeared]

@black

How about some 5760x1080 stories of a gimped 1.28GB card? I'm tired of destroying the 7970 @ 1080p, time to step up ()

I just can't see Nvidia releasing a flagship product that is slower than what AMD has out.

A flagship card that everyone knows it's a midranged card based on specs and die codename.... Calling it a x80 will make them look like tools, and also admit defeat this round.. You really think Nv would do that?

 

[blackened23]

@black

How about some 5760x1080 stories of a gimped 1.28GB card? I'm done destroying the 7970 @ 1080p, time to step up ()

I just can't see Nvidia releasing a flagship product that is slower than what AMD has out.

A flagship card that everyone knows it's a midranged card based on specs and die codename.... Calling it a x80 will make them look like tools, and also admit defeat this round.. You really think Nv would do that?

No, I think they will be super aggressive with the clockspeeds and say "screw the TDP!" and clock it to the sky (if thats possible)

They will find a way to make it work. The alternative is to release something called the 660 or 670 and leave a product gap. GK110 isn't even *validated* yet, so they can't be so stupid as to leave a product gap for a chip that hasn't gone through ES phase or validation yet. I think GK110 will be the 700 series, and NV will try to be super aggressive with GK104 clocking (to fit the x80 bill)

 

[BallaTheFeared]

We'll see, but I have a hard time believing Nvidia is that far behind on GK100/110. I can see it being a month or two behind, in which case it will be a x60 release, overpriced for it's segment until the bigger cards arrive though.

Of course if it exceeds the 7950/7970 @ 1080p regardless of it's 1600+ performance Nvidia might just call it a 680. Which would be awful for everyone imo.

 

[Crap Daddy]

lol..you certainly are going to be butt hurt if it isn't.:biggrin:

I stand by my claim and no, I ain't gonna be butt hurt.

My current card is fast enough for what PC gaming has to offer this year so I'm not planning to spend money but I like to comment and talk about new tech. It's fun.

Back on topic, think about the difference between the GTX560Ti, GF104 done right (GF114) and the top card from the previous NV generation, GTX285.
It's around 25-30%. I might be wrong but I think GK104 will be that fast compared to the GTX580.

 

[Grooveriding]

The difference is with prior generations their "big" gpu spinoff was ready at the same time, this is not the case now. They have GK104 and thats it until Q3 (estimated) so its questionable whether they would call something a 660 and leave a product gap for 6 months. I highly doubt it, I think that GK104 will be the flagship and they will clock it as high as feasibly possible to make it fit. Other sources are stating that GK104 will be the 680, while the GK110 will be the 700 series. Meanwhile, AMD is working on sea islands which supposedly will be released Q4. It would make sense for AMD to release a tahiti refresh since it has such ridiculous clocking headroom, but who knows.

Anyone championing NV as the sudden price performance leader, if thats true great but there shouldn't be any question to why many would be skeptical. NV has always been terrible price/performance with their high end parts, and if the GK104 based GTX 680 is released for 350-399$, great, i'll buy several of them. I remain highly skeptical based on their history.

Those are some good points. It won't look good on nvidia to come out with their first 28nm card as a mid-range card. It then becomes a case of having to throw out some rumours and believe others though. Do we believe the overly high expected performance and not the pricing, or believe the pricing and not the performance. One thing is obvious, we won't be able to have both in tandem.

If they push the card to its limits on stock clocks and are aiming to try and be in the area of a 7970, the card is going to cost more than the $300 rumours. It will wind up costing at least $450, maybe more - especially if they slap the 680 name on it. Giving the card the traditional moniker of their top-tier part with a mid-range price will reflect negatively on an attempt to release a 780 @ $600.

Looking at some of the specs as well, if they crank the clocks hard, they will eight-ball themselves when reviewers do parallel comparisons of overclocking headroom where the 7970 has a ton. If we believe the price and not the performance rumours, then we are getting a card at the level of a 580 -/+ depending on the game and what aspects of GPU design it prefers.

I tend to believe the latter, at least s the most reasonable. I wouldn't be shocked to see them release a $450-$500 680 that can show higher numbers in a game like B:AC than the 7970 and just let the nv only buyers lap them up.

 

[notty22]

I wonder if the GK104 will be limited to 2-way SLI, I'm guessing it will. Have Anand or Hocp even done a Tahiti crossfire article yet?, oh guess not, because it would be called MISSfire.
edit: Let's hope Nvidia comes out with strong drivers for the new cards.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Zing!

Heh

 

[Skurge]

But nvidia has never released a $600 card only to have the competitor release an equivalent card 2 months later for $300. when you bought a premium nvidia card you were buying the absolute best bar none. AMD had nothing faster inevitably coming down the pike.

If you buy/bought a 7970 you buy it at premium top dawg prices knowing good and well that it is only a matter of time before its relegated to low high end/ high mid range performance.

Has AMD ever released a $600 card that gets beaten by a $300 one 2 months later?
I remember nVidia releasing a $450 card that gets beaten by a $300 4870 after 1 month.

History on nVidia vs ATI video cards.

You seem to have a short memory.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/1314/11
6800Ultra is top card for less than a month. Gets Beaten pretty badly by the X800XT

http://www.anandtech.com/show/1062/15
FX5800 is slower, hotter and has worse image quality than 9700pro, but launches at the same price and faces the even faster 9800pro

http://www.anandtech.com/show/1930/3
X1900XTX comes out 2 months after the $700 7800GTX and beats in for $50 less.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

I wouldn't be shocked to see them release a $450-$500 680 that can show higher numbers in a game like B:AC than the 7970 and just let the nv only buyers lap them up.

This whole rumor is based on stupid logic that Kepler will be faster than the 7970 in PhysX. The 7970 doesn't do PhysX, maybe it will be considerably faster than the 580, but there aren't a ton of PhysX titles out they'd be hard pressed to create any sort of positive spin off it.

Are we going to see slides of what, BMAC, BMAP, Mafia II, and Mirrors Edge? Woo, sounds like great marketing... /sarcasm