Based on the BSN article, it sounds like they are going with gtx680, which I think is stupid since they're following up with the bigger chip in 2-3 months time. But the name doesn't really matter, right? It's all about price and performance.
Based on the BSN article, it sounds like they are going with gtx680, which I think is stupid since they're following up with the bigger chip in 2-3 months time. But the name doesn't really matter, right? It's all about price and performance.
They could simply call it the GTX 685 like they did with the 280 to 285 refresh.
There will probably be 3 eventual cards based on the GK110 chip that will all be faster than GK104, though. GTX685 only covers one of those 3. GTX690 and GTX695 may be used, but then if they come out with a dual card, what will that be called?
LOL_Wut_Axel
Diamond Member
- Mar 26, 2011
- 4,310
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The bigger chip, GK110, will be released around six-eight months later. It makes zero sense for NVIDIA to not just release a new series by then since yields for the Performance GPUs will be much better as well.
GK110 will be used to introduce the new GeForce 700 series. Right now it's nowhere near being launched, so forget about GK110 for now.
6-8 months from GK104's release would be a worst case scenario disaster situation. It was reported - before Charlie, mind you - that GK110 taped out at the end of December / beginning of January. It took Nvidia 6 months from the time Fermi taped out to get released - and that was with quite a few hiccups and problems that needed to be corrected. Assuming Nvidia doesn't have as many problems, but still takes as long, 6 months is beginning of July.
What you are saying is 6-8 months after GK104 launches, assuming a March 1st launch for GK104, that would put GK110 in the Sept 1 to November1 time frame. I think if GK110 hasn't come out by August then it's got just as many problems as GF100 did.
So, in general, I am disagreeing with your time frame.
blastingcap
Diamond Member
- Sep 16, 2010
- 6,654
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It is not stupid and if true, it's an indication of how this chip will perform. They will NEVER release a card called GTX680 that is slower than AMD's flagship. If this card can't beat the 7970 even by 5% then they will not release it as a 680. For NV it's not a blind guess, AMD's cards are out so they are able to see what their GK104 is capable of.
I have to agree, Nvidia are zealots. They aren't going to release a chip with their flagship title if it's slower than AMD's current cards with full knowledge that they have a much bigger card coming down the pipe.
My guess is it will be a called a x60.
My guess is it will be a called a x60.
We'll know soon enough, brightsdieofthenews says that the pre-launch process has started, marketing figures, sales targets etc. Expect 4-6 weeks to launch.
It sounds like thats what their going to do though....
rumors where saying 580 + 10% performance, which is slower than a 7970.
It ll be close so it wont matter if the nvidia 680 (GK104) is slower, if its alot cheaper, it ll be a winner and outsell the 7970.
Either they go for GK104 = 680, and then lateron in 3-6months time, with the big K, they call that 780.
Or they go with GK104 = 660, and the big one, many months from now ends up as 680.
GK104 was designed to be a chip that would replace performance and pricewise the GF114 long before the 7900 series were launched. That is why they have the 256 bit memory bus because it was meant to power a "performance" card. GK100 was designed for high-end and to compete with the predicted power of the 7900 series.
It turns out that the 7900 series can be challenged by this "performance" NV chip. To what extent we don't know, all we know is that GK104 has the same ROPs and TMUs like Tahiti and that clocked higher at stock can surpass the output of the 7970 in pixel rate and texture fill rate while we don't know the efficiency of this new arch and what's with those shader cores.
NV is in a position to do whatever they consider because as Charlie hinted it's a win/win situation. They have developed a chip that was meant to be sold at a price of up to 300$ with what they consider a fair profit margin. But this product is competitive with a 550$ chip! They can play the game and price it in the vicinity or outsell the competition by fixing it a much lower price tag. Remains to be seen.
Charlie hinted that for absolute performance, the 7970 was still the winner of the two.
The GK104 will be slower, however being 200$ or so cheaper, thats not to bad, since performance wise it probably wont be that far off. It wont be the fastest single gpu on the market, but it ll likely be one that everyone will love, for its performance/price ratio.
Then sometime Q3 this year, Nvidia will come out with the big K.
However that means for 3/4th 's of a intire year, the 7970 is going to be the most powerfull card on the market.
The GK104 will be slower, however being 200$ or so cheaper, thats not to bad, since performance wise it probably wont be that far off. It wont be the fastest single gpu on the market, but it ll likely be one that everyone will love, for its performance/price ratio.
Then sometime Q3 this year, Nvidia will come out with the big K.
However that means for 3/4th 's of a intire year, the 7970 is going to be the most powerfull card on the market.
I hope you realize Tahiti wasn't design to be the top dog, as that's reserved for the 7990 packing 2 GPUs onboard. It's relatively small die and power use should be a clear indication of that.. and unsurprisingly, what AMD has been doing for a few generations already. The fact its priced so high above its intended market is due to NV's lack of competition, not because it was designed to be that expensive.
Whenever gk104 arrives and if AMD needs to re-price their cards, it suits them just fine since they don't have to price-war compete with a >500mm2 GPU.
Edit: Let me rephrase this to make the point clearer:
AMD is in a position to do whatever they consider because it's a win/win situation. They have developed a small and efficient chip that was meant to be sold at mid-range prices with what they consider a fair profit margin. But this product destroys their competitor's 500$ chip, so they are selling it at $550! It's win/win because their competition isn't anywhere to be seen and they can continue on selling a mid-range product for enthusiast prices!
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@Silverforce11
The GK104 is rumored to be in the 340+ mm^2 ish area.
That is smaller than the 7970's that wiki has listed as 352mm^2.
The thing is the GK104 will be slightly smaller, and slightly slower.
A pricewar between these 2 chips could be brutal.... I doubt one is that much cheaper to make than the other, so theyd have to push down into the "not makeing any profit on card" to see which pulls out first.
What will be intresting to see, is how much the GK104 effects the 580 and 7950 prices.
The GK104 is rumored to be in the 340+ mm^2 ish area.
That is smaller than the 7970's that wiki has listed as 352mm^2.
The thing is the GK104 will be slightly smaller, and slightly slower.
A pricewar between these 2 chips could be brutal.... I doubt one is that much cheaper to make than the other, so theyd have to push down into the "not makeing any profit on card" to see which pulls out first.
What will be intresting to see, is how much the GK104 effects the 580 and 7950 prices.
I wouldn't be too shure of either. Of course, above 1900x1200 GK104 will be inferior due to the lower bandwidth but in terms of performance it will be very close to the 7970 which in turn makes the 300$ price point obsolete. Based on the specs this card will be in no way equal to the GTX580. It will be faster. Everything the 560Ti has it's doubled this time including probably transistor count. While we can't expect double performance I think 60-80% is a fairly reasonable expectation. That's more than 20% above the GTX580.
Assuming its gtx580 performance at <150W, it will go down well at ~$350. Depending on its OC headroom and scaling, it could go down really well.
Gk104 and Tahiti die size looks extremely close. The major price difference will be in the 256 bus and 2gb vram. I guess that could allow a $50 gap for NV if they wish to price-war. Will they? Unlikely. AMD set the bar high enough, NV has every intention of making as much $$ as they can.
I'm going to add this continued prediction to your list of
You seem very certain that Nvidia can't compete on perf per mm^2 or perf per watt.
AMD probably used more space for the bus, I mean that would make sense right?
Ugh, lol.. Either way at $300 I won't be buying... and I'm upgrading to two more 1080p monitors (may need that third 470 in my desk after all) so the small bus is a killer for me which rules out picking it up for cheap on the refresh.. Still waiting it seems.
I hope everyone is wrong about GK100/110 and it pops out of Nvidia a few weeks later. Also I'm hoping against hope there are at least two models above this with more ROPs and a larger bus.
Ugh, lol.. Either way at $300 I won't be buying... and I'm upgrading to two more 1080p monitors (may need that third 470 in my desk after all) so the small bus is a killer for me which rules out picking it up for cheap on the refresh.. Still waiting it seems.
I hope everyone is wrong about GK100/110 and it pops out of Nvidia a few weeks later. Also I'm hoping against hope there are at least two models above this with more ROPs and a larger bus.
OILFIELDTRASH
Lifer
- May 13, 2009
- 12,333
- 612
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I'm not sure AMD's strategy is a win win for them. They have lost many potential customers with the absurd prices and potential for backlash from those that bought a 7950/7970 if nvidia decides to release a 7950/7970 competitor for $200-$250 less. It's not a good long term business model to overcharge customers and lose many potential customers in the process.
The irony of this statement makes me =
850$ 8800 ultra, 650$ gtx 280, 499$ gtx 480, nvidia are the champions of charity. But nvidia has tons and tons of physx titles, so its all worth it, 1 title in the past year.Yes, but the Physics in Batman AC are great, really adds to the immersion.
100% more titles than AMD had Physics in this year.
Don't overlook Nvidia's professional applications in your prices, Inventor Professional, Alias studio, 3DS Max, Maya, AutoCAD, AutoCAD Electrical etc all benefit hugely from CUDA. CUDA your Geforce card can run, so once again we're comparing the price of a card that just plays games to a card that plays the same games, has more features in those games where possible, and has common professional applications benefits.
100% more titles than AMD had Physics in this year.
Don't overlook Nvidia's professional applications in your prices, Inventor Professional, Alias studio, 3DS Max, Maya, AutoCAD, AutoCAD Electrical etc all benefit hugely from CUDA. CUDA your Geforce card can run, so once again we're comparing the price of a card that just plays games to a card that plays the same games, has more features in those games where possible, and has common professional applications benefits.
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OILFIELDTRASH
Lifer
- May 13, 2009
- 12,333
- 612
- 126
The irony of this statement makes me =
But nvidia has never released a $600 card only to have the competitor release an equivalent card 2 months later for $300. when you bought a premium nvidia card you were buying the absolute best bar none. AMD had nothing faster inevitably coming down the pike.
If you buy/bought a 7970 you buy it at premium top dawg prices knowing good and well that it is only a matter of time before its relegated to low high end/ high mid range performance.
The 300$ pricing isn't determined yet, also, 399$ 5870 or RV770 say hi. This isn't a knock against GK104 but since GK110 isn't ready yet (according to multiple sources) gk104 certainly isn't going to knock the socks off of tahiti performance wise. So nvidia can play the price game until GK110 is released in Q3, but I don't think they're going to be that charitable. History indicates that NV overcharges more than any company in the biz. Whether or not you acknoledge it, that is a fact.
I certainly hope you're right though, a 299$ GK104 would be fantastic. We'll see I guess
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Keysplayr
Elite Member
- Jan 16, 2003
- 21,219
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I'm beginning to doubt very much that 299$ simply because this card will be much faster than the GTX580/HD7950. My assumptions are based on the specs (confirmed by brightsideofthenews).
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