3900x/Radeon VII watercooling: another newbie thread

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

That's a beautiful cooper block. If I go h20 cooling I'll have to get that!

 

[DrMrLordX]

I like a lot of Watercool's products for form and function. Their dGPU blocks are also nice, and they offer copper or nickel-plated copper according to the needs of your loop.

About the only thing I can hold against them is that I had to shop around to get basic stuff like fittings. Their fan pack options aren't that great either.

 

[gk1951]

DrMrLordX, how is the build coming along?

 

[DrMrLordX]

In progress. Got all the tubing set up and ready for some leak testing later. Then I get to block the Radeon VII. After that, I can finally build this thing.

 

[aigomorla]

patience like a buddah... lol...
dont rush it at the end and mess up!

 

[DrMrLordX]

I've been tempted to cut some corners. Had to slow down when I did a teardown of my 1800x and found out that Conductonaut doesn't "crust" like CLU, meaning it can (and will) pump out or just leak from gravity if it doesn't have any copper to stick to. That means, if I'm gonna use it, I'm gonna have to use it in a copper<->copper interface. That means lapping the 3900x (waterblock is already bare copper). For the Radeon VII, I'm probably just gonna use Kryonaut since Conductonaut might pump out there too. Kryonaut undergoes breakdown after 80C, but I should be able to keep even the hotspot temps below that. In case I decide to still use Condoctonaut on the Radeon VII, I also nabbed some clear nail polish to protect stuff around the GPU/HBM area.

Details, details . . .

 

[DrMrLordX]

Sooooo I caught a leak. The good news is that I didn't have anything hooked up at the time, so nothing is damaged. The bad news is that the leak is at the base of one of my quick disconnects, where it screws into my case passthrough. So it could either be the passthrough that has a crack, or it could be a flaw in the QD3. Not sure yet. Gonna have to drain everything and have a look.

edit: swapped the QD3s and the leak is still happening on the same side . . . looks like it's the passthrough. Hmm.

edit edit: yup, it's the passthrough. I rebuilt it and it sprang a leak on the opposite side. There's some imperceptible defect in the part. I can cut apart the case where I had the passthrough installed and get my tubing into the case that way. It's flimsy back there.

edit edit edit: It wasn't just the passthrough. I removed the passthrough, mangled a hole in the case large enough for a 16mm OD tube, and rerouted all my tubing with one QD3 going into the rad and one QD3 coming out of pump #2. The result during testing: both QD3s leaked from the threaded connections. The threading is too long and it's too hard to get them snug in the G 1/4" holes. Replacing both QD3s in this configuration with spare XSPC compression fittings eliminated all leaks. I'm still in testing now, but everything looks fine so far. I ordered some male compression QD3s (to go with the female compression QD3s I already have) so that I can splice them into the loop and regain the quick disconnect functionality that I want without having to deal with leaks from the threads. The compression elements of my QD3s have worked fine, and the quick-disconnect function works perfectly. It is the threading that is b0rked. How could they screw up something as simple as that? XSPC's threading is perfect, and it's easy to tighten the fittings using my tube cutter (there's slots where you can fit a bar of metal or wide screwdriver on the tube side of each fitting. The tube cutter's blunt back end fits perfectly).

Patience patience.

 

[Ajay]

It is the threading that is b0rked. How could they screw up something as simple as that? XSPC's threading is perfect, and it's easy to tighten the fittings using my tube cutter (there's slots where you can fit a bar of metal or wide screwdriver on the tube side of each fitting. The tube cutter's blunt back end fits perfectly).

You can try some Teflon plumbing tape - might stop the leaks, worth a shot IMHO.

 

[DrMrLordX]

You can try some Teflon plumbing tape - might stop the leaks, worth a shot IMHO.

Nah I just pulled the G 1/4" threaded QD3s and restructured the loop. I had considered something like that, or perhaps an epoxy, but at point, why was I bothering? I would have to retape/re-epoxy the threaded QD3s every time I moved things around (which, admittedly, wouldn't be very often). Considering how well the compression QD3s work, my main regret is trying to use threaded QD3s in the first place.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Blarf. I just nuked my 3900x trying to lap it. And I can't order another one just yet. Or at least I think I nuked it . . . no post with everything plugged in, so my guess is the CPU is dead. Power LED on the board is showing so it's probably not a short.

 

[gk1951]

DrMrLordX OUCH nuking a 3900x!
If I had a nickle for every screw up I've made in the computer world, I"d be able to be able to buy another GTX 2080TI in a flash.

Do you have another one on order or are you going with a 3800x?

I'll PM you a funny story of one of my royal screw ups to hopefully make you feel better.

 

[DrMrLordX]

@gk1951

I picked up one from an eBay scalper. Price isn't good, but at least it'll get here soon. Then I can proceed to NOT lap that one . . .

 

[aigomorla]

How do you nuke a cpu by lapping it?


Was it working before you attempted to lap it?

 

[DrMrLordX]

How do you nuke a cpu by lapping it?

Easily. You either power it up with metal shavings on the pins, or you power it up with metal shavings under the IHS. I cleaned the pins very well, but then I noticed that AMD didn't entirely seal the IHS with epoxy, so there may be a lot of nickel and copper shavings suspended in dish soap foam under there.

Was it working before you attempted to lap it?

In retrospect, I probably should have tested it beforehand, but nah I just lap stuff straight out-of-the-box "like a boss" hahah. Oh well.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Good news! I finally got everything built, filled the loop, and still have no leaks. I integrated compression (instead of threaded) QD3 male connectors into the loop and they are not leaking either. Now all I gotta do is wire up everything to the PSU and see what's what. Gonna do a post-mortem on the build process in a separate post, but not just now.

edit: IT WORKS woohoo

idle temp of 3900x in UEFI screen: 30C. Sys temp: 28C. Muahahahah!

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Build pics?

 

[DrMrLordX]

Build pics?

Hmm. Got an ugly camera but I can provide some in a bit.

In the meantime, build post-mortem: The good, the bad, and the just plain stupid. Component by component (no particular order)

XSPC 16mm/10mm compression fittings: Excellent! Easy to use, easy to install, and never failed me once. Had I gone with a simpler build contained within a case (instead of something going outside the case), I probably could have built the loop in a matter of a few hours with confidence. I never once had any leaks using these fittings. Not once. Also they can be torqued down a little bit more if you have a long, thin bar of metal/plastic thanks to the notches in the barbs. Just don't cut yourself on those! Ouch.

Koolance QD3 G 1/4 thread: Awful. The threaded portion of the quick disconnect is too long to fit into any threaded component (realistically). It's a miracle only one of these leaked when used in my passthrough. In other applications, they both leaked. Replaced with . . .

Koolance QD3 compression: Works, and works nicely. Easily as good as the XSPC fittings. They're big, heavy, and a bit expensive though. For those who really need to be able to break down their loop into multiple parts, these are a godsend. Be prepared to bring the pump power since they are restrictive.

Watercool.de rubber tubing 16mm/10mm: Awesome. Okay, so you can't look at the pretty colors of your premix inside them. So what? They are kink-resistant, chemical resistant, and just generally easy to work with/cut/route/whatever you want. Just make sure you don't twist the things all willy-nilly.

Some tube cutters I got off Amazon (recommended by @aigomorla): Very useful. Producing clean cuts on the rubber tubing made everything fit securely on the fitting barbs. Also the back end of the cutter is narrow enough to torque the XSPC fittings down a bit more.

Watercool.de expansion slot passthrough: Leaked. Though it may have been the G 1/4" QD3s that were at fault. I removed mine from my loop anyway and rerouted "creatively". So in the end, it was unnecessary.

Arctic Cooling P14 PWM PST fans: Better than I expected. 9 of them make less noise than one of the Noctua 3000rpm fans I used on my NH-d15. So far temps are low. Also they have 3-pin daisy chain connectors to make it easier for banks of these fans to reach a single fan controller. It's a nice touch. One of my 10 fans died thanks to me mishandling the wires. There's a 4-prong vane on each fan, and the power wire is tucked into one of the prongs. Don't remove it.

Coolerguys external PSU (2a/12v): Glad I got this thing. It made leak testing and bleeding the loop really easy. One of these PSUs will power a D5 @ setting 5 (23w). PSU gets a little warm handling this load, so it's not recommended for 24/7 use.

Watercool.de Heatkiller IV: So far, this thing has been great. I haven't pushed my 3900x to its limits yet, but thus far, I haven't gotten it past 66C in anything. That's with PBO running CBR20. Clocks weren't that high, but it's not the waterblock's fault. CPU idles at 30C or so, sometimes lower. Completely ridiculous. Installation was a lot easier than I thought it would be.

Bykski Radeon VII waterblock: Installation was a pain. The instructions were for . . . I don't know what. They didn't entirely pertain to my card at all. Just to some general block "types" that Bykski sells. Sure, they're in English, but they're for the wrong cards! Also there were supposed to be 8 plastic spacers for the 8 screws around the GPU/HBM block, but instead I got only . . . 5? I forewent the spacers (following the advice of a build video where some German guy doesn't use them at all) and got good results anyway. So far I've hit 2050 MHz on my Radeon VII and the highest hotspot temp I've seen in Superposition 1080p medium is 65C. More tweaking to come of course, but still. Awesome temps. The spring screws do not like to be installed. Use some caution. On the plus side, the grooves cut into the block make it easy to figure out where to use thermal pads for VRMs. I had to cut them shorter and narrower to fit them in the grooves. I did not plug in the RGB because it annoys me. Can't comment on its quality.

Watercool.de MO-RA3: Mine was slightly damaged, making it impossible to install 2 out of 36 fan screws. No big whoop. It also made installing the radiator feet a bit . . . interesting. They work. They thing is just lopsided. It still stands up, so I am not complaining. The performance is simply amazing. Complete overkill for my 1 dGPU + 1 CPU loop. Also, it's heavy so . . . hope you're in good enough shape to haul this thing around. Be careful picking it up! The fins will cut you silly. Ouch. Also it comes with 4 stoppers pre-installed. You need a fairly large hex allen wrench to remove them. Not included.

D5 vario (2): The legend continues. I have two running in series on setting 3, and I can barely hear them. Running one on 5 bled the loop in minutes.

Watercool.de Heatkiller Tube (D5): Integrates a D5 pump pretty handily in the bottom. Installation was a bit of a chore since you have to take apart the reservoir to get all the mounting crap on there that I used to mount my res on my MO-RA3. Instructions were good though. Kinda wish I could have gotten it to sit higher on the rad. Not a big problem. Looks nice though, and it's glass. In a loop with rubber tubing, you can throw just about any chem (except CUSO4) into the water and get away with it. Watercool.de recommends citric acid of all things. Maybe I should have used that instead of cupramine?

Cupramine: Nice shade of blue. No other thoughts on it yet since I added 4 drops after bleeding the loop. We'll see if I get bio buildup.

Heatkiller D5 top: I ordered an extra since i'm kinda stupid. But one of my D5s came with one installed, and hey, it's a nice top. You need hex wrenches (not included) to remove the stoppers.

 

[aigomorla]

Arctic Cooling P14 PWM PST fans: Better than I expected. 9 of them make less noise than one of the Noctua 3000rpm fans I used on my NH-d15. So far temps are low. Also they have 3-pin daisy chain connectors to make it easier for banks of these fans to reach a single fan controller. It's a nice touch. One of my 10 fans died thanks to me mishandling the wires. There's a 4-prong vane on each fan, and the power wire is tucked into one of the prongs. Don't remove it.

Now you see why these are my favorite fans for budget related projects?
Dont want to bleed 200 dollars on Gentle Typhoons, then get the AC PST!

Bykski Radeon VII waterblock: Installation was a pain. The instructions were for . . . I don't know what. They didn't entirely pertain to my card at all. Just to some general block "types" that Bykski sells. Sure, they're in English, but they're for the wrong cards! Also there were supposed to be 8 plastic spacers for the 8 screws around the GPU/HBM block, but instead I got only . . . 5? I forewent the spacers (following the advice of a build video where some German guy doesn't use them at all) and got good results anyway. So far I've hit 2050 MHz on my Radeon VII and the highest hotspot temp I've seen in Superposition 1080p medium is 65C. More tweaking to come of course, but still. Awesome temps. The spring screws do not like to be installed. Use some caution. On the plus side, the grooves cut into the block make it easy to figure out where to use thermal pads for VRMs. I had to cut them shorter and narrower to fit them in the grooves. I did not plug in the RGB because it annoys me. Can't comment on its quality.

yeah dont say i didnt warn you about Bykski... lol...
horrible instructions, and sometimes missing parts.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Now you see why these are my favorite fans for budget related projects?
Dont want to bleed 200 dollars on Gentle Typhoons, then get the AC PST!

Frankly I don't think I could have done much better with eLoops or PK3s either. Maybe a little more airflow. Right now it doesn't seem to be a problem.

yeah dont say i didnt warn you about Bykski... lol...
horrible instructions, and sometimes missing parts.

In their defense, the block itself is excellent. Those temps! Yowza. Got to 2000 MHz without even hitting stock voltage. Sick.

One of these days, I'm going to make a how-to post in the video card section just for this block . . . hopefully it'll come up in Google searches or what not.

 

[aigomorla]

Frankly I don't think I could have done much better with eLoops or PK3s either. Maybe a little more airflow. Right now it doesn't seem to be a problem.

lol considering a pack of 5 AC's cost almost as much as a single eloop, its definitely a no brainer.
You can also almost treat the AC's as disposable, and not attempt a reoil/repair on it, as its much more of a hassle then its is just getting another one off a 5 pack.
You also feel a lot less bad, when you break a blade on accident, or in your case, mess up a wire, as its like the cost of a coffee at starbucks.

And meh... im glad your liking your Bykski, but i think unless im stuck again, where its the only available block for my gpu, i will most likely go with either eK/Koolance/Watercool/eVGA.

 

[DrMrLordX]

And meh... im glad your liking your Bykski, but i think unless im stuck again, where its the only available block for my gpu, i will most likely go with either eK/Koolance/Watercool/eVGA.

Believe me, had I a better option, I would have gone with it. The EK block just stinks and Watercool apparently was too busy with other projects to address Radeon VII. Barrow has a block that no English-speaker has tried (that I'm aware of), and Alphacool's block actually had a revision that would destroy cards when installed "properly". The revised block seems not to perform all that well.

I would have preferred a block from Watercool. I could have gotten copper + acetal and been happy.

@BTRY B 529th FA BN

As requested, pics!



Fear the tangled mess of tubes and wires. Also note the classy cardboard box serving as an impromptu pump stand. Guess what's inside the box holding up the cardboard? That's right, it's a dead AC fan! It's still useful after all.



Note the soulless interior. RGB? What's that? I still have a red LED case fan in the front of the case that I haven't replaced yet because tearing it out from in front of the drive bays would be a pain. So it's still in there. Glowing. Red. grr.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Thanks, man, dig the pics! Love that radiator! I often wondered if a 360 was enough on 6 core 32nm and it held up but often wondered what more radiator real-estate would harvest and with that 3900X it seems like it's a perfect fit with that HK4.0

 

[DrMrLordX]

Thanks, man, dig the pics! Love that radiator! I often wondered if a 360 was enough on 6 core 32nm and it held up but often wondered what more radiator real-estate would harvest and with that 3900X it seems like it's a perfect fit with that HK4.0

My only regret is that I am not currently technically proficient enough to rig up some kind of TEC underneath the waterblock along with a controller to link voltage to cold side temperature. I know this rad + block combo can handle a lot more heat, but it isn't conquering my hotspots as well as I had hoped. The CPU can easily break 70C in Prime95 small FFTs which is ridiculous when you consider how much cooling capacity I threw at it. A reliable TEC that would keep cold side temp 1-2C above ambient would probably improve things, and I know the MO-RA3 and Heatkiller IV could handle it. Might have to be a huge freakin TEC though.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

I'm out of the loop, what's TEC? Some kind of thermal transference paste?

 

[DrMrLordX]

TEC = Thermo Electric Cooler

aka TEG (thermo electric generator - only generates power when situated between temperature differentials)

aka Peltier

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_cooling