380 tons stolen *BEFORE* troops arrived

[DashRiprock]

Is Kerry pulling this stuff out of his b*tt?

Article

Kerry pressed the point at rallies Tuesday, telling supporters in Green Bay, Wis., the explosives "could be in the hands of terrorists, used to attack our troops or our people."

Going beyond the known facts, he said later in Las Vegas that the explosives have actually been used against U.S. troops.

I forgot, he's a lawyer. Talk about scare tactics...:disgust:

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: DashRiprock
Is Kerry pulling this stuff out of his b*tt?

Yes.

 

[conjur]

No Check of Bunker, Unit Commander Says
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10...27bomb.html?oref=login

White House officials reasserted yesterday that 380 tons of powerful explosives may have disappeared from a vast Iraqi military complex while Saddam Hussein controlled Iraq, saying a brigade of American soldiers did not find the explosives when they visited the complex on April 10, 2003, the day after Baghdad fell.

But the unit's commander said in an interview yesterday that his troops had not searched the site and had merely stopped there overnight.

The commander, Col. Joseph Anderson, of the Second Brigade of the Army's 101st Airborne Division, said he did not learn until this week that the site, Al Qaqaa, was considered sensitive, or that international inspectors had visited it before the war began in 2003 to inspect explosives that they had tagged during a decade of monitoring.

Colonel Anderson, who is now the chief of staff for the division and who spoke by telephone from Fort Campbell, Ky., said his troops had been driving north toward Baghdad and had paused at Al Qaqaa to make plans for their next push.

"We happened to stumble on it,'' he said. "I didn't know what the place was supposed to be. We did not get involved in any of the bunkers. It was not our mission. It was not our focus. We were just stopping there on our way to Baghdad. The plan was to leave that very same day. The plan was not to go in there and start searching. It looked like all the other ammunition supply points we had seen already."

What had been, for the colonel and his troops, an unremarkable moment during the sweep to Baghdad took on new significance this week, after The New York Times, working with the CBS News program "60 Minutes," reported that the explosives at Al Qaqaa, mainly HMX and RDX, had disappeared since the invasion.

Earlier this month, officials of the interim Iraqi government informed the United Nations International Atomic Energy Agency that the explosives disappeared sometime after the fall of Mr. Hussein on April 9, 2003. Al Qaqaa, which has been unguarded since the American invasion, was looted in the spring of 2003, and looters were seen there as recently as Sunday.

President Bush's aides told reporters that because the soldiers had found no trace of the missing explosives on April 10, they could have been removed before the invasion. They based their assertions on a report broadcast by NBC News on Monday night that showed video images of the 101st arriving at Al Qaqaa.

By yesterday afternoon Mr. Bush's aides had moderated their view, saying it was a "mystery" when the explosives disappeared and that Mr. Bush did not want to comment on the matter until the facts were known.

On Sunday, administration officials said that the Iraq Survey Group, the C.I.A. taskforce that hunted for unconventional weapons, had been ordered to look into the disappearance of the explosives. On Tuesday night, CBS News reported that Charles A. Duelfer, the head of the taskforce, denied receiving such an order.

At the Pentagon, a senior official, who asked not to be identified, acknowledged that the timing of the disappearance remained uncertain. "The bottom line is that there is still a lot that is not known," the official said.

The official suggested that the material could have vanished while Mr. Hussein was still in power, sometime between mid-March, when the international inspectors left, and April 3, when members of the Army's Third Infantry Division fought with Iraqis inside Al Qaqaa. At the time, it was reported that those soldiers found a white powder that was tentatively identified as explosives. The site was left unguarded, the official said.

The 101st Airborne Division arrived April 10 and left the next day. The next recorded visit by Americans came on May 27, when Task Force 75 inspected Al Qaqaa, but did not find the large quantities of explosives that had been seen in mid-March by the international inspectors. By then, Al Qaqaa had plainly been looted.

Colonel Anderson said he did not see any obvious signs of damage when he arrived on April 10, but that his focus was strictly on finding a secure place to collect his troops, who were driving and flying north from Karbala.

"There was no sign of looting here," Colonel Anderson said. "Looting was going on in Baghdad, and we were rushing on to Baghdad. We were marshaling in."

A few days earlier, some soldiers from the division thought they had discovered a cache of chemical weapons that turned out to be pesticides. Several of them came down with rashes, and they had to go through a decontamination procedure. Colonel Anderson said he wanted to avoid a repeat of those problems, and because he had already seen stockpiles of weapons in two dozen places, did not care to poke through the stores at Al Qaqaa.

"I had given instructions, 'Don't mess around with those. It looks like they are bunkers; we're not messing around with those things. That's not what we're here for,' " he said. "I thought we would be there for a few hours and move on. We ended up staying overnight."

The spin is collapsing around them! There was no planning whatsoever to protect these high-density explosives. Just utter incompetence.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Originally posted by: DashRiprock
Is Kerry pulling this stuff out of his b*tt?

Article

Kerry pressed the point at rallies Tuesday, telling supporters in Green Bay, Wis., the explosives "could be in the hands of terrorists, used to attack our troops or our people."

Going beyond the known facts, he said later in Las Vegas that the explosives have actually been used against U.S. troops.

I forgot, he's a lawyer. Talk about scare tactics...:disgust:

If you like the lawyerese and more of "it depends on what 'is' is" garbage, get ready for at least four years of the crap if K/E wins.

 

[phillyTIM]

IT'S STILL BEING REPORTED THAT THE ONLY SOURCE OF THIS *BEFORE INFORMATION* IS ONLY FROM NBC, THIS DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE!

THE IAEA STILL SAYS THAT THE STOCKPILES WERE THERE AFTER BUSH INVADED AND AMERICA KNEW THEY WERE THERE.

 

[Pliablemoose]

& konjur points to the NY Times as a source, sweet.

 

[cwjerome]

No, just utter stupidity... that some people are acting like they know when these explosives went missing.

Why can't people wait until we know what happened before they start talking out their asses?

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
& konjur points to the NY Times as a source, sweet.

Nice personal attack changing my name and nice attacking the messenger. The NY Times is very respectable. What's your problem with it? Oh yeah, it actually interviewed the commander involved who counters your boy, Bush.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Doubt over 'missing' explosives

Looks like the Brits are starting to see through the BS too

Doubt over 'missing' explosives
By Joe Murphy, Evening Standard
27 October 2004

Doubts were growing today over a claim that 380 tonnes of high explosive were stolen from under American troops' noses in Iraq.

Journalists embedded with the US military say they saw no sign of the weapons when US troops took over the storage site in April last year. Some reports suggest the explosive was moved before the US troops arrived.

If the story collapses, it could be a big embarrassment to John Kerry who cited it yesterday as evidence of President Bush's "incompetence".

The explosives could be used to detonate a nuclear device.They were stored in a giant military compound 30 miles from Baghdad. Witness accounts have so far proved inconclusive.

Dana Lewis, a reporter with the 101st Airborne at the time, said he toured the site and saw many bunkers shattered from airstrikes. "The facility looked abandoned at that point," he said. "I did not see any looting."

 

[LTC8K6]

Conjur, 3ID secured AlQaKaa several days before 101AB got there. CBS reported on 3ID's search of the site on April 4 2003. There were no stockpiles of IAEA sealed explosives ther, just thousands of boxes with vials of white powder in them and some papers regarding chem warfare.

The vials tested positive for explosives in a field test, but it is doubful that they were the explosives in question because it would be unusual and very inconvenient to store 350-400 tons of explosives that way.

CBS knew that 3ID had reached the site first because they reported it. The 3ID went there because it was a marked IAEA site.

It seems disingenuous on the part of CBS and NYT to try to make a story out of this 18 months later, and to attack the credibility of 3ID by suggesting that they just left 350-400 tons of explosives laying around for anybody and their brother to pick up.

 

[conjur]

The timing is suspect but I have no problem with it. The evidence is mounting up that the Bush administration's incompetence caused the Al Qaqaa site to be left unprotected despite knowing the vast quanitities of high-density explosives there.

This is a direct result of Rumsfeld's push to win the war on the cheap.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Doubt over 'missing' explosives

Looks like the Brits are starting to see through the BS too

Doubt over 'missing' explosives
By Joe Murphy, Evening Standard
27 October 2004

Doubts were growing today over a claim that 380 tonnes of high explosive were stolen from under American troops' noses in Iraq.

Journalists embedded with the US military say they saw no sign of the weapons when US troops took over the storage site in April last year. Some reports suggest the explosive was moved before the US troops arrived.

If the story collapses, it could be a big embarrassment to John Kerry who cited it yesterday as evidence of President Bush's "incompetence".

The explosives could be used to detonate a nuclear device.They were stored in a giant military compound 30 miles from Baghdad. Witness accounts have so far proved inconclusive.

Dana Lewis, a reporter with the 101st Airborne at the time, said he toured the site and saw many bunkers shattered from airstrikes. "The facility looked abandoned at that point," he said. "I did not see any looting."

Hello?? Any Bushits have any common sense out there??

It was gone before they got there? Then they knew it was there??

There is no excuse for letting this stuff slip away. They obviously were fighting this war on the cheap without enough troops.

They must have hid this the same place as their WMD's that we can't find. LMAO!!

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: conjur
The timing is suspect but I have no problem with it. The evidence is mounting up that the Bush administration's incompetence caused the Al Qaqaa site to be left unprotected despite knowing the vast quanitities of high-density explosives there.

This is a direct result of Rumsfeld's push to win the war on the cheap.

The evidence is also mounting up that a certain person from the UN knew about this situation for months and months and suddenly, just before the election, crafts a memo on this "crisis." What the hell is the UN doing trying to influence US voters and an election outcome? Shouldn't they be concentrating on their own damn faults, like the Oil-for-Terror scandal?

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: conjur
The timing is suspect but I have no problem with it. The evidence is mounting up that the Bush administration's incompetence caused the Al Qaqaa site to be left unprotected despite knowing the vast quanitities of high-density explosives there.

This is a direct result of Rumsfeld's push to win the war on the cheap.

The evidence is also mounting up that a certain person from the UN knew about this situation for months and months and suddenly, just before the election, crafts a memo on this "crisis." What the hell is the UN doing trying to influence US voters and an election outcome? Shouldn't they be concentrating on their own damn faults, like the Oil-for-Terror scandal?

Trying to blame this on the UN?? LMAO

 

[Grunt03]

Wow he actual truth be told, no way. It's just to bad that even the UN thinks they are correct.
Maybe they should learn to move through the red tape and take action. Anything that the UN say seems to be a joke.

 

[wiin]

NY Times Flashback: Paper Reported Saddam Transferred High Explosives

The New York Times want President Bush out of office so bad that they put aside their own story on this matter. Like CBS, the New York Times will do anything to help kerry win even if it means lying.

But Times reporters knew way back in Feb. 2003 that the removal process was instigated - not by looters or insurgents after the U.S. liberation - but instead by the government of Saddam Hussein.

On Feb. 15, 2003, the Times reported on an address to the United Nations Security Council by Mohamed ElBaradei, the UN's chief nuclear watchdog. In quotes covered extensively by the paper, ElBaradei shared his concern about the removal of high explosives from facilities like Al Qaqaa:
"We have also continued to investigate the relocation and consumption of the high explosive HMX," ElBaradei explained a month before the U.S. invasion.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: conjur
The timing is suspect but I have no problem with it. The evidence is mounting up that the Bush administration's incompetence caused the Al Qaqaa site to be left unprotected despite knowing the vast quanitities of high-density explosives there.

This is a direct result of Rumsfeld's push to win the war on the cheap.

The evidence is also mounting up that a certain person from the UN knew about this situation for months and months and suddenly, just before the election, crafts a memo on this "crisis." What the hell is the UN doing trying to influence US voters and an election outcome? Shouldn't they be concentrating on their own damn faults, like the Oil-for-Terror scandal?

Trying to blame this on the UN?? LMAO

Trying to deny the UN is involved in this? LMAO.

 

[NightCrawler]

Questions:

1. Why report the story now when the weapons were stolen 18 months ago?

2. The press says the weapons weren't there or were, can't really get a straight answer?

3. 380 tons out of millions of tons, kinda a drop in the bucket ?

4. Isn't Iraq littered with weapon stashes everywhere ?

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: wiin
NY Times Flashback: Paper Reported Saddam Transferred High Explosives

The New York Times want President Bush out of office so bad that they put aside their own story on this matter. Like CBS, the New York Times will do anything to help kerry win even if it means lying.

But Times reporters knew way back in Feb. 2003 that the removal process was instigated - not by looters or insurgents after the U.S. liberation - but instead by the government of Saddam Hussein.

On Feb. 15, 2003, the Times reported on an address to the United Nations Security Council by Mohamed ElBaradei, the UN's chief nuclear watchdog. In quotes covered extensively by the paper, ElBaradei shared his concern about the removal of high explosives from facilities like Al Qaqaa:
"We have also continued to investigate the relocation and consumption of the high explosive HMX," ElBaradei explained a month before the U.S. invasion.

D'oh!

If El Baradei knew this, then why did he craft the oddly timed memo in the first place? Hmmm. This is getting curioser and curiouser.

 

[Chadder007]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: conjur
The timing is suspect but I have no problem with it. The evidence is mounting up that the Bush administration's incompetence caused the Al Qaqaa site to be left unprotected despite knowing the vast quanitities of high-density explosives there.

This is a direct result of Rumsfeld's push to win the war on the cheap.

The evidence is also mounting up that a certain person from the UN knew about this situation for months and months and suddenly, just before the election, crafts a memo on this "crisis." What the hell is the UN doing trying to influence US voters and an election outcome? Shouldn't they be concentrating on their own damn faults, like the Oil-for-Terror scandal?

Trying to blame this on the UN?? LMAO

Ignoring the UN's involvement in anything that is bad? LMAO!

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: wiin
NY Times Flashback: Paper Reported Saddam Transferred High Explosives

The New York Times want President Bush out of office so bad that they put aside their own story on this matter. Like CBS, the New York Times will do anything to help kerry win even if it means lying.

But Times reporters knew way back in Feb. 2003 that the removal process was instigated - not by looters or insurgents after the U.S. liberation - but instead by the government of Saddam Hussein.

On Feb. 15, 2003, the Times reported on an address to the United Nations Security Council by Mohamed ElBaradei, the UN's chief nuclear watchdog. In quotes covered extensively by the paper, ElBaradei shared his concern about the removal of high explosives from facilities like Al Qaqaa:
"We have also continued to investigate the relocation and consumption of the high explosive HMX," ElBaradei explained a month before the U.S. invasion.

There was disagreement among the inspectors about allowing the explosives to remain, considering their dual use capabilities.

Mohamed ElBaradei is pissed he wasn't awarded a Nobel Prize & has been criticized by Bush admin & they've been actively seeking his replacement on the IAEA as Director General.

 

[conjur]

Iraq says 'impossible' explosives taken before regime fall
http://story.news.yahoo.com/ne...afp/iraq_us_explosives

BAGHDAD (AFP) - A top Iraqi science official said it was impossible that 350 tonnes of high explosives could have been smuggled out of a military site south of Baghdad before the regime fell last year.

The UN nuclear watchdog this week said about 350 tonnes of high explosives went missing from a weapons dump some time after Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s regime was toppled in April 2003 after the US-led invasion .

But as the issue of the missing explosives took centre stage in the final days of the US presidential campaign, some US officials have suggested they had gone before the US-led forces moved on Baghdad.

"It is impossible that these materials could have been taken from this site before the regime's fall," said Mohammed al-Sharaa, who heads the science ministry's site monitoring department and previously worked with UN weapons inspectors under Saddam.

"The officials that were inside this facility (Al-Qaqaa) beforehand confirm that not even a shred of paper left it before the fall and I spoke to them about it and they even issued certified statements to this effect which the US-led coalition was aware of."

Sharaa also warned that other nearby sites with similar materials could have also been plundered.

"The Al-Milad Company in Iskandariyah and the Yarmouk and Hateen facilities contained explosive materials that could have also been taken out," the official told AFP in an interview.

The Al-Qaqaa facility is near the town of Latifiyah, 30 kilometers (18 miles) south of Baghdad and the bulk of materials in question include HMX (high melting point explosive) and RDX (rapid detonation explosive), which experts say can be used in major bombing attacks, making missile warheads and detonating nuclear weapons.

The area in Babil province, which includes the towns of Iskandariyah and Mahmudiyah, used to be the centre of Saddam's military-industrial complex.

It is now one of the most dangerous parts of the country rife with crime, kidnappings and attacks. Several headless bodies hav been found in the area, according to marines stationed there.

"It may be already too late to salvage many of these sites, which are controlled by bandits and beyond the control of Iraqi forces," warned Sharaa.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: conjur
Iraq says 'impossible' explosives taken before regime fall
http://story.news.yahoo.com/ne...afp/iraq_us_explosives

BAGHDAD (AFP) - A top Iraqi science official said it was impossible that 350 tonnes of high explosives could have been smuggled out of a military site south of Baghdad before the regime fell last year.

The UN nuclear watchdog this week said about 350 tonnes of high explosives went missing from a weapons dump some time after Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s regime was toppled in April 2003 after the US-led invasion .

But as the issue of the missing explosives took centre stage in the final days of the US presidential campaign, some US officials have suggested they had gone before the US-led forces moved on Baghdad.

"It is impossible that these materials could have been taken from this site before the regime's fall," said Mohammed al-Sharaa, who heads the science ministry's site monitoring department and previously worked with UN weapons inspectors under Saddam.

"The officials that were inside this facility (Al-Qaqaa) beforehand confirm that not even a shred of paper left it before the fall and I spoke to them about it and they even issued certified statements to this effect which the US-led coalition was aware of."

Sharaa also warned that other nearby sites with similar materials could have also been plundered.

"The Al-Milad Company in Iskandariyah and the Yarmouk and Hateen facilities contained explosive materials that could have also been taken out," the official told AFP in an interview.

The Al-Qaqaa facility is near the town of Latifiyah, 30 kilometers (18 miles) south of Baghdad and the bulk of materials in question include HMX (high melting point explosive) and RDX (rapid detonation explosive), which experts say can be used in major bombing attacks, making missile warheads and detonating nuclear weapons.

The area in Babil province, which includes the towns of Iskandariyah and Mahmudiyah, used to be the centre of Saddam's military-industrial complex.

It is now one of the most dangerous parts of the country rife with crime, kidnappings and attacks. Several headless bodies hav been found in the area, according to marines stationed there.

"It may be already too late to salvage many of these sites, which are controlled by bandits and beyond the control of Iraqi forces," warned Sharaa.

We went in there with no plan, not enough resources or troops and this is what happens.

 

[NightCrawler]

This story is dead.

 

[TravisT]

I see the left is forming up conspiracy theories again...