37 Children Dead - Latest Israeli Air Strike

[jpeyton]

Support for Hezbollah is really fading, can't you tell? :roll: What a magnificent offensive by Israel; destroying its good will worldwide and enciting support for its enemies. The parallels to the US and our offensive in Iraq are easy to see.

 

[Jaskalas]

Nope. No mention of any suspected bomb factory in this building was mentioned by the IDF.
Thier excuse was because it was near some firing.

I watched the video myself off Fox News. The rockets were being fired DIRECTLY next to, or from, that building. Collateral damage is bound to happen when using high powered explosives.

This is war, if you?re willing to die to the terrorists because you allow them safe haven, be my guest. I however, will never advocate surrendering to their use of human shields as a means by which they can kill us.

So a nation fights terror with terror? I mean bombing apartment buildings full of civilians is exactly that.. terror. The excuse that they didn't know is just someone trying too hard to justify a wrong. If you do not know what it is you are bombing then don't bomb it. How hard can that be?

Again, it was collateral damage while taking out a rocket launching site. You think bombs only effect a single building? As for fighting terror ?with terror?, you do not throw back punches when being hit?

Terror IS war, war is terror. The only difference is the country that fights conventionally does not hide behind their own people to get them killed, and does not SPECIFCALLY without any other purpose kill innocents.

I can say this over and over, but you?ll still side with Hezbollah and politically fight Israel for them. How many more innocents must die before you are capable of admitting that Hezbollah waging war in people?s HOMES are what causes these deaths?

Why is it people justify the wrongs of country A by comparing it to the wrongs of country B .. oh but in this case it is not a country.. it is a group within a country... so ...

This isn?t about the wrongs of country A. This is country A fighting to kill an aggressive military group inside country B. There will be costs, no one pretends to claim war is pretty or fun. If group B does not want its own people dying, they can surrender at ANY TIME.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Aimster


I wasn't exactly directing it to you... I am bored and having fun.

Maybe if the pro-Hezbollahi people came out I would go pick on them but they are in hiding.

This is a symptom of the sickness, the brainwashing -- that anyone who is against Israel flattening Lebanon and killing children, women, civilians, people who are trying to flee, people trying to bring aid, must be "pro-Hezbollah".

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Aimster


I wasn't exactly directing it to you... I am bored and having fun.

Maybe if the pro-Hezbollahi people came out I would go pick on them but they are in hiding.

This is a symptom of the sickness, the brainwashing -- that anyone who is against Israel flattening Lebanon and killing children, women, civilians, people who are trying to flee, people trying to bring aid, must be "pro-Hezbollah".

Im not going to disagree with you there.

 

[Jaskalas]

If you voice for protecting Hezbollah, I do not see how much more FOR them you can be. Well, without picking up a gun or rocket launcher yourself.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Aelius
That's the first time I heard Israel willing to kill many civilians outright to complete objectives.

What is your source?

There are a dozen news sources (news.google.com) that have the Lebanese civilian body count. Does that not meet your qualification of "many civilians"?

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
If you voice for protecting Hezbollah, I do not see how much more FOR them you can be. Well, without picking up a gun or rocket launcher yourself.

Another symptom -- I'm raising my voice to protect innocent civilians including women and children and in your mind that equates with "picking up a gun or rocket launcher yourself"???

This is the same form of brainwashing that got us into Iraq. If you weren't for the invasion you were a terrorist or a terrorist sympathizer -- even though there were NO terrorists in Iraq and Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

This is the kind of simplistic nonsense that leads people to commit the kinds of atrocities we're seeing today in Iraq, Lebanon, and Israel -- to name just a few.

It's either us or them. You're with us or against us.

We can all see where that kind of neanderthal logic is leading us.

 

[Jaskalas]

I?ll try to wrap it up in a summary, instead of just calling it what it is.

It is Hezbollah?s entire strategy to have YOU protect them.

That is why they take off their military uniforms and wage war from homes. They guarantee that innocents will die. This in turn, makes you support protecting Hezbollah by having you argue against any action that would STOP Hezbollah.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
I?ll try to wrap it up in a summary, instead of just calling it what it is.

It is Hezbollah?s entire strategy to have YOU protect them.

That is why they take off their military uniforms and wage war from homes. They guarantee that innocents will die. This in turn, makes you support protecting Hezbollah by having you argue against any action that would STOP Hezbollah.

That is utter nonsense.

How am I going to protect Hezbollah? And why do they need protection since they handed Israel's ground forces their a$$es?

The truth is, Israel won't fight Hezbollah on the ground because Israel doesn't have the stomach for it, so the cowards bomb women and children with U.S. bombs and U.S. planes from 35,000 feet.

 

[Aimster]

Did the U.S bomb Iraq like this before they invaded?

 

[linkgoron]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
I?ll try to wrap it up in a summary, instead of just calling it what it is.

It is Hezbollah?s entire strategy to have YOU protect them.

That is why they take off their military uniforms and wage war from homes. They guarantee that innocents will die. This in turn, makes you support protecting Hezbollah by having you argue against any action that would STOP Hezbollah.

That is utter nonsense.

How am I going to protect Hezbollah? And why do they need protection since they handed Israel's ground forces their a$$es?

The truth is, Israel won't fight Hezbollah on the ground because Israel doesn't have the stomach for it, so the cowards bomb women and children with U.S. bombs and U.S. planes from 35,000 feet.

Meh, Hezbullah was firing rockets from there to Israel from crowded areas, so every time Israel would try to fire a rocket, Lebanese civilians would be killed. Also, I've heard that Hezbullah stopped civilians from leaving villages.

BTW, reports from Lebanon say that the building was hit around 6 or 7 hours before it collapsed, which may indicate that there were weapons and stuff in the building.

Oh, and while 9 soldiers were killed, the Israeli soldiers still killed more than a 5:1 rate in that incident...

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Did the U.S bomb Iraq like this before they invaded?

Yep. rumsfeld bragged about "shock and awe".

Killed a lot of civilians doing it too. And we're still killing civilians in Iraq.

What's your point? That it's OK to slaughter women and children to "soften up" the enemy?

If that is your point please pardon me but I disagree.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: linkgoron

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
I?ll try to wrap it up in a summary, instead of just calling it what it is.

It is Hezbollah?s entire strategy to have YOU protect them.

That is why they take off their military uniforms and wage war from homes. They guarantee that innocents will die. This in turn, makes you support protecting Hezbollah by having you argue against any action that would STOP Hezbollah.

That is utter nonsense.

How am I going to protect Hezbollah? And why do they need protection since they handed Israel's ground forces their a$$es?

The truth is, Israel won't fight Hezbollah on the ground because Israel doesn't have the stomach for it, so the cowards bomb women and children with U.S. bombs and U.S. planes from 35,000 feet.

Meh, Hezbullah was firing rockets from there to Israel.

BTW, reports from Lebanon say that the building was hit around 6 or 7 hours before it collapsed, which may indicate that there were weapons and stuff in the building.

Yeah. Uh huh. The same excuse the Israelis used on the beach in Gaza that they shelled -- you remember, the shelling that killed those civilians that started all of this.

 

[Jaskalas]

You are among the majority who want a one sided case fire, for us to surrender, even if it means Hezbollah continues to exist and continues to involve innocents in the war they wage against us. Eventually the UN will stop Israel, or the US will do so ? because of your ideology.

President Bush is just about the only reason Israel hasn?t been condemned for fighting Hezbollah, if you had your way you certainly would have done so already. You express it all the time.

The truth is, Israel won't fight Hezbollah on the ground

Of course not, they know full well what international pressure to ?play nice? in a war zone and ground forces turn into. We call it Iraq. There would be more bloodshed, more innocents dying, and more ammo for your side to get Israel to surrender. It?s no wonder you just advocated it.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
I?ll try to wrap it up in a summary, instead of just calling it what it is.

It is Hezbollah?s entire strategy to have YOU protect them.

That is why they take off their military uniforms and wage war from homes. They guarantee that innocents will die. This in turn, makes you support protecting Hezbollah by having you argue against any action that would STOP Hezbollah.

And how are Israel's actions going to stop Hezbollah? Last I heard, the damage Israel has inflicted by killing dozens of Hezbollah soldiers has been undone by the increase in support Hezbollah has received since Israel started slaughtering Lebanese civilians wholesale.

Israel has the best of American military technology. They can pinpoint and level a single building with deadly precision. How many Hezbollah were pulled from the rubble along with the dozens of women and children?

Israel is just trying to shock the Lebanese into submission with a high number of casualties, regardless of whether they are men, women or children.

 

[linkgoron]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: linkgoron

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
I?ll try to wrap it up in a summary, instead of just calling it what it is.

It is Hezbollah?s entire strategy to have YOU protect them.

That is why they take off their military uniforms and wage war from homes. They guarantee that innocents will die. This in turn, makes you support protecting Hezbollah by having you argue against any action that would STOP Hezbollah.

That is utter nonsense.

How am I going to protect Hezbollah? And why do they need protection since they handed Israel's ground forces their a$$es?

The truth is, Israel won't fight Hezbollah on the ground because Israel doesn't have the stomach for it, so the cowards bomb women and children with U.S. bombs and U.S. planes from 35,000 feet.

Meh, Hezbullah was firing rockets from there to Israel.

BTW, reports from Lebanon say that the building was hit around 6 or 7 hours before it collapsed, which may indicate that there were weapons and stuff in the building.

Yeah. Uh huh. The same excuse the Israelis used on the beach in Gaza that they shelled -- you remember, the shelling that killed those civilians that started all of this.

Oh please, the shelling was in RESPONSE to Qassam rockets that were fired to Israel, Shderut was under fire for a long time.

and the incident in Lebanon has nothing to do with the Palestinians. The Hezbullah has been planning this for a long time, and from what I've heard they aren't even asking for the release of any Palestinians.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: linkgoron

Oh please, the shelling was in RESPONSE to Qassam rockets that were fired to Israel, Shderut was under fire for a long time.

and the incident in Lebanon has nothing to do with the Palestinians. The Hezbullah has been planning this for a long time, and from what I've heard they aren't even asking for the release of any Palestinians.

So you're saying Israel INTENTIONALLY fired missiles at Palestinian civilians on that Gaza beach?

Does this mean you've finally given up on that ridiculous excuse that it wasn't Israel?

 

[jpeyton]

C'mon guys, it's not like Israel has done this before. Oh...wait...I forgot about the 1996 Israeli shelling of a UN compound housing civilian refugees that killed 106.

 

[linkgoron]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: linkgoron

Oh please, the shelling was in RESPONSE to Qassam rockets that were fired to Israel, Shderut was under fire for a long time.

and the incident in Lebanon has nothing to do with the Palestinians. The Hezbullah has been planning this for a long time, and from what I've heard they aren't even asking for the release of any Palestinians.

So you're saying Israel INTENTIONALLY fired missiles at Palestinian civilians on that Gaza beach?

Does this mean you've finally given up on that ridiculous excuse that it wasn't Israel?

I believe that Israel did not cause the deaths of those Palestinians.

GJ ignoring the rest of my post.

Other than that...
You missed my point.
Israel fired at Gaza that day. That is true. It was in response to rockets fired from Gaza into Israel.
Do you deny that?

EDIT:
and about that building that collapsed 7 hours after the rockets actually hit it, that's not from Israeli reporters, but from Lebanese.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Suffice it to say it's been:

1) a bad conflict for the US . . . and we aren't even fighting in it.

2) a bad conflict for Israel. They wanted a fight on their terms . . . then they realized their terms were not going to be sufficient as long as it was on someone else's turf. For a conflict that allegedly started due to two kidnappings and sporadic rocket fire into northern Israel, IDF now has . . . two kidnapped soldiers and regular daily rocket/missile fire into northern Israel.

3) a REALLY bad conflict for Lebanese civilians. True innocents are bearing the brunt of the Israeli offensive. Some may argue Hezbollah has minimal concern for them. But it's readily apparent IDF has NONE!

4) a bad conflict for the UN. Yet again confirmation that the UN really is worthless when it's needed most. Granted, the US (Bolton/Bush) is a significant handicap. Further, the UN has been forced to withdraw observers due to reckless attacks by IDF. To add insult to injury, some in the region are now lumping the UN's acts of omission in with IDF/US acts of commission. (Aside from rushing arms to the front, the US has been actively opposing an unconditional ceasefire).

5) potentially a great conflict for Syria. The UN and US are coming to the realization that Syria is a regional powerbroker. The 'political' solution will invariably go through Damascus.

6) potentially a great conflict for Iran. Did somebody say sanctions? How about strong-arming them into giving up their nuke program? That's SOOOO last month! Iran is THE regional power. Iran is flush with oil cash, theocrats with a firm hold of power, and an elected sort of . . . leader with populist support. The reform movement in Iran is on life support, yet the US and Israel are trying to help the mullahs pull the plug.

7) a bad conflict for the EU and Asia. The former appears to be weak. The latter appears to be indifferent.

8) a bad conflict for Republicans. They were giddy early on b/c they thought this played into their global war on terror BS agenda . . . plus they thought Israel was going to 'win' something. But as the headlines fill with deaths of innocents, Israel winning nothing but global rebuke, and more troops needed in Iraq . . . calling this conflict 'ours' is starting to look like a losing proposition.

9) a bad conflict for black Secretaries of State. The only thing looking rougher than Condi Rice's physical appearance is her performance. Granted, it's not like she started the conflict but any time the US Secretary of State gets the Heisman from a pebble of a country like Lebanon . . . it's a BAD week.

Colin gets dragged in b/c every time Rice gives a less than rosy performance people (often neocons) say, "well what do you expect . . . she's not qualified and won't drink the Kool-Aid!" They then note how the last Secretary of State not only wouldn't drink the Kool-Aid but is largely responsible for our current predicament in Iraq. Yes, I know its warped reasoning but it's what these people do best.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: linkgoron

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: linkgoron

Oh please, the shelling was in RESPONSE to Qassam rockets that were fired to Israel, Shderut was under fire for a long time.

and the incident in Lebanon has nothing to do with the Palestinians. The Hezbullah has been planning this for a long time, and from what I've heard they aren't even asking for the release of any Palestinians.

So you're saying Israel INTENTIONALLY fired missiles at Palestinian civilians on that Gaza beach?

Does this mean you've finally given up on that ridiculous excuse that it wasn't Israel?

I believe that Israel did not cause the deaths of those Palestinians.

GJ ignoring the rest of my post.

Other than that...
You missed my point.
Israel fired at Gaza that day. That is true. It was in response to rockets fired from Gaza into Israel.
Do you deny that?

EDIT:
and about that building that collapsed 7 hours after the rockets actually hit it, that's not from Israeli reporters, but from Lebanese.

Hezbollah, Hamas United by Tactics

A common enemy creates allies.

EDIT

For those who won't sign up for the Washington Post.

But Not All See Actual Coordination

By John Ward Anderson
Washington Post Foreign Service
Sunday, July 16, 2006; Page A14

GAZA CITY, July 15 -- When the Lebanese militant group Hezbollah launched a cross-border raid Wednesday and captured two Israeli soldiers, barely two weeks after Hamas militants in the Gaza Strip had done virtually the same thing, Gaza accountant Mohammed Abu Asen saw the events as "completely connected" and a cause for celebration.

"It was an act of solidarity with the Palestinian people, when not a single Arab state had lifted a finger to help us" after two weeks of retaliatory Israeli attacks, he said.

But according to Asen and many others here, the notion that Hezbollah and Hamas had actually coordinated their separate abductions, despite the similarities, is far-fetched.

"I don't think they planned this together," said Khalid Salah, 31, a butcher. "Rather, it's a divine coincidence."

U.S. and Israeli officials have gone a step further, publicly charging -- without offering direct evidence -- that Iran and Syria had a hand in the operations. A senior U.S. official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the United States had intelligence that Hezbollah leader Hasan Nasrallah traveled from Beirut to Damascus to visit Hamas political chief Khaled Mashal shortly before Wednesday's Hezbollah raid, suggesting the operations were linked, the official said.

Jointly planned or not, the capture of three Israeli soldiers by Hezbollah and Hamas -- both labeled as terrorist organizations by Israel and the United States -- has thrown the two groups together in a way that hasn't happened since 1992, when more than 400 Hamas activists were deported by Israel to southern Lebanon. It was there, in refugee camps, that some Hamas members honed their bombmaking skills with the help of Hezbollah experts, according to Israeli intelligence sources.

Now, both groups say they want to trade the Israeli soldiers they are holding for their own supporters who are being held in Israeli prisons.

Israel is refusing a prisoner swap, saying it would be a bad precedent. Instead, Israel invaded and reoccupied parts of Gaza and launched one of the largest military operations in Lebanon since its 1982 invasion. Gideon Meir, a senior Israeli Foreign Ministry official, said the goal is not only to secure the release of the soldiers but to stop the continuing rocket attacks that have terrorized Israeli communities near both borders for years.

"It was a well-coordinated operation" between Hezbollah and Hamas, Meir said. "How come it happened in two places simultaneously?"

"Certainly there was strategic coordination," said another senior Israeli official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "If Hamas is attacked, then Hezbollah comes to its aid, and vice versa." Furthermore, according to Meir, "the ideological support, the weapons, everything comes from Iran, and in the case of Hezbollah, through Damascus." However, he added, "I'm not saying they had an operational hand in it."

Palestinian government spokesman Ghazi Hamad, a member of Hamas, denied any connections.

"If they have proof or evidence, they should show the world there is cooperation between Hamas and Hezbollah," he said, adding that in attempting to link Iran and Syria to events last week, the United States is "trying to convince the world that all these organizations should be put in one basket, and present this as the image of terror to the world." Nonetheless, in the aftermath of the two kidnappings, he said, "we think there may be an opportunity to talk about one deal for all the prisoners and all the soldiers."

Many Palestinians on the street in Gaza said that Hezbollah and Hamas had their own agendas and goals and would not coordinate military operations. And they said the United States and Israel always blamed everything on Iran and Syria, whether they were involved or not.

"It's not a matter of coordination," said Mahei al-Masri, 44, a fruit vendor in Palestinian Square near Gaza's Old City. "What's common here are the goals. Hezbollah wants Lebanese and Arab prisoners freed, and Hamas wants the Palestinian prisoners freed."

"The U.S. accuses the Islamic states of everything that happens here," said Marwa al-Haddad, 34, who was shopping with one of her seven children at the Friday market in the Beach Refugee Camp along the Gaza City coast.

At the same time, some Gazans said they believed Hezbollah launched its operation at least partly to relieve Israeli military pressure on the strip, which has been relatively quiet since the fighting intensified on the Israel-Lebanon border on Thursday.

Ziad Abu Amr, an independent member of the Palestinian legislature who often acts as a mediator between Hamas and other Palestinian groups, said such beliefs were "naive" because Israel could easily fight wars on two fronts. But it was possible, he said, that the problems in the north and the south were linked, because Hamas leaders living outside the Palestinian territories and the leaders of Hezbollah, Iran and Syria all derived much of their influence from continuing instability.

"Iran definitely has some cards to play against America, and they are using Hezbollah and Hamas to that end, to shift the position on nuclear arms," said Eyad Sarraj, a Gazan psychiatrist and human rights activist, referring to U.S. efforts to have the U.N. Security Council impose punitive actions on Iran for not stopping its uranium enrichment program.

Abu Amr made a similar point, saying, "The whole world is focused on the Security Council meeting to discuss Lebanon" and not Iran.

Palestinians here said they were happy to have another ally in the fight against their sworn enemy. And few showed any compassion for Israelis seen on televised reports scurrying into shelters as Hezbollah bombs rained down on northern Israel. Ismail Abu Ali Mustafah, an unemployed 58-year-old with two wives and 18 children, said he didn't want to talk about how he felt watching such scenes.

"I have a question for the Israelis now in shelters," he said. "How do you feel when you see Israeli jets bombing our homes and killing our people? Are they human beings and we're not?"

But for Abu Islam, 62, also unemployed and with 12 children, the entire crisis simply underscores how desperate Palestinians have become, and how little weight they carry.

"We have 9,000 men, children and woman in Israeli prisons, and for three Israeli soldiers the whole world is calling for their release, including the U.N. and G-8. And they're soldiers, not innocent civilians," he said. "The world is not hearing the Palestinian cries. No one listens to the weak."

PS I ignore most of what you post. You're so slanted toward Israel reading your posts is a waste of time.

 

[daveymark]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: daveymark
Ugh...it's disgusting the way the Lebanese and Hamas are willing to sacrifice their children

I know there are real people like you in the world but I never get to meet any of them personally because they are usually hiding under a rock somewhere.

Coming from someone like you, I take that as a compliment. Does this mean you want to compare rocks?

 

[0roo0roo]

if you dont like it, well how about the europeans and arabs go in and disarm hezbollah. frankly they should have volunteered from day one to stop this. but really they don't care to.

its the cost of war, hezbollah made the choice that started all this, and its indescriminate attacks on civilians cannot go unanswered. even targeted response is not perfect, but so it is, terrorists who use human shields force such situations to happen as they bring the war straight to civilian areas. do not lose perspsective, the blood is on hezbollahs hands, and all that are apologists or supporters for their cause and tactics.

and as said, body count doesn't equal moral superiority. or the nazi's would have been morally superior with their 3 million dead civilians. if israel had the same intent as hezbollah, for their thousands of bombs, each could have easily been targeted to kill atleast 30+. if you want death and destruction its very simple, you don't waste time on targeted bombs. you toss down some explosive bombs, then some incendiaries, and then some more high explosive bombs to whip up an unstoppable firestorm that will burn entire cities away. think dresden. so dont even pretend its the same.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: linkgoron

Meh, Hezbullah was firing rockets from there to Israel from crowded areas, so every time Israel would try to fire a rocket, Lebanese civilians would be killed. Also, I've heard that Hezbullah stopped civilians from leaving villages.

Any reliable source or are you making stuff up again? Infact its Israeli bombing gas stations to prevent civilians from leaving. They also do not guarentee safety for civilians on the road. Not everyone leaves when there is a disaster in any part of the world.

Oh, and while 9 soldiers were killed, the Israeli soldiers still killed more than a 5:1 rate in that incident...

says who? The IDF? Hezbollah has only confirmed 33 deaths. This just confirms that YOU are falling prey to Israeli propaganda.

 

[linkgoron]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: linkgoron

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
I?ll try to wrap it up in a summary, instead of just calling it what it is.

It is Hezbollah?s entire strategy to have YOU protect them.

That is why they take off their military uniforms and wage war from homes. They guarantee that innocents will die. This in turn, makes you support protecting Hezbollah by having you argue against any action that would STOP Hezbollah.

That is utter nonsense.

How am I going to protect Hezbollah? And why do they need protection since they handed Israel's ground forces their a$$es?

The truth is, Israel won't fight Hezbollah on the ground because Israel doesn't have the stomach for it, so the cowards bomb women and children with U.S. bombs and U.S. planes from 35,000 feet.

Meh, Hezbullah was firing rockets from there to Israel from crowded areas, so every time Israel would try to fire a rocket, Lebanese civilians would be killed. Also, I've heard that Hezbullah stopped civilians from leaving villages.

Any reliable source or are you making stuff up again? Infact its Israeli bombing gas stations to prevent civilians from leaving. They also do not guarentee safety for civilians on the road. Not everyone leaves when there is a disaster in any part of the world.

Oh, and while 9 soldiers were killed, the Israeli soldiers still killed more than a 5:1 rate in that incident...

says who? The IDF? Hezbollah has only confirmed 33 deaths. This just confirms that YOU are falling prey to Israeli propaganda.

Because Hezbullah has no need to lie about casualties and deaths? To up their sodlier's moral?

I've never seen Hezbullah propoganda...