$35,000 Tesla Model III Is Coming In 2017

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KentState

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2001
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I think the lack of any physical presence is going to be a bad decision. It will be hard for a lot of people to part with $35 - 120k for something that they do as an online transaction. Even if the smartphone market, the willingness to buy a $1k phone online is really not there. I can only speak for one of the large carriers, but in-store sales are still king. Maybe there were too aggressive with the number of stores, but to wipe them out completely doesn't feel right.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
13,168
3,949
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I'm trying to figure out if the Amazon direct-sales model is going to work. They have test-drive events every few months in my area (my state is one of the few where you can't buy a Tesla yet, you have to buy it out-of-state) & I finally convinced my wife to go to one, which ended up changing her mind about the car - about Tesla, about autopilot, about electric vehicles. I've been a Tesla fan for years, but she, as a non-nerd, didn't "get it" until she got a hands-on driving experience & was able to ask the Tesla employee a bunch of questions. So I definitely think there is some value for non-enthusiasts in terms of getting some hands-on time with the car & being able to ask a knowledge person questions to get a better idea about the vehicle & get more comfortable with it.

I think Tesla will always have a market for people who are excited about new things & actively research their options, but I remember reading some dealership history & learning about how car-buying is a fairly emotional decision, not so much a logical one. Right now, Tesla does zero advertising & will now have zero dealerships, so I'm interested to see how that is going to work out for them long-term.

The availability of a $35k base-model car is pretty appealing, but $35k is still out of reach for a huge amount of people. Not only that, but self-driving is, imo, the main seller of the car...there's plenty of other electric vehicles on the road, but none that offer quite what Tesla has (side note, they just passed 10 billion miles driven on Autopilot & fed into their neural-net AI system), but in order to get that, you have to spend an additional $8,000, bringing the price up to $43k for the car.

I think that a $25k electric car with FSD would be a pretty appealing price-point, but that's years away (as is actual, hands-off FSD). A lot of people I talk to are interested in electric and are very interested in self-driving, but even the $35k base price is a showstopper for a lot of people right off the bat. I think they'll definitely gain some traction later this year as they release the babysitting-required version of FSD, but until the price comes down, I don't think it will really be a mass-market vehicle.

I'm really interested in the Model Y...definitely hoping to see an official announcement later this month! I figure it will probably be two years until they start making the Y (although the latest "reports" say that it will start production in 2020 & will be built on the 3's frame instead of an entirely new platform), then maybe another two years before they get all the kinks worked out (the recent Consumer Reports article detailed QC issues & bugs on the 3 - cracked rear windshields in the cold, screens freezing, body panel gaps, paint issues, and so on).

I just bought a stick-shift Ecoboost Mustang last year, which I plan on both keeping forever & also having it be my last ICE vehicle, especially as they don't make many cars with manual transmissions anymore (the upcoming 700+ HP Mustang GT500 is automatic-only, because human reaction time is now the slowest part of the driventrain, lol). My plan is to finish paying it off over the next four years & then pick up an AWD Y with HW3 & FSD. Hopefully by then it will be a fairly bug-free machine & hopefully have real self-driving available. That would be a killer combo for me...stick-shift ICE for summer & AWD FSD for winter & trips! #Team2023 lol
I think right now we're all skeptical about an online-only sales model. It smells like Tesla was very pained by paying off that $920M note, so they are in full cost-cutting mode. Eventually online only sales will probably be great, but like I said, I think eventually Tesla will not be an independent company. I'm happy to be proved wrong.

My girl says TM3 is not on our shopping list now, because we want a "crossover". Model Y is probably too far off to wait for, but we'll see.

As far as price/value, I think TM3 is not bad now. The average sale price of a new car is now $36k. The average term of a new car loan is nearly 70 months. People are being suckered into more car than they can actually afford. Now the average cost is skewed by expensive cars, so the median is closer to $30k. My point is that a $35k (or $37k Standard Plus) model is within spitting distance of a typical new car sale (esp. if you factor in fuel cost savings as Tesla does).

And if you think about it, it's also very much region dependent. In blue states (with high cost of living), these prices don't make people blink an eye. In low cost of living areas, I agree with you that it's a LOT of money. I personally am a big advocate of used cars due to depreciation (but there are some exceptions).

(As an aspiring environmentalist) I sorta hate to buy another ICE car, but I kind of agree with you that if I had to buy something now, it's probably going to be ICE. Who knows, maybe I can hold off the woman long enough for the Model Y to enter the discussion LOL.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
50,976
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I think right now we're all skeptical about an online-only sales model. It smells like Tesla was very pained by paying off that $920M note, so they are in full cost-cutting mode. Eventually online only sales will probably be great, but like I said, I think eventually Tesla will not be an independent company. I'm happy to be proved wrong.

My girl says TM3 is not on our shopping list now, because we want a "crossover". Model Y is probably too far off to wait for, but we'll see.

As far as price/value, I think TM3 is not bad now. The average sale price of a new car is now $36k. The average term of a new car loan is nearly 70 months. People are being suckered into more car than they can actually afford. Now the average cost is skewed by expensive cars, so the median is closer to $30k. My point is that a $35k (or $37k Standard Plus) model is within spitting distance of a typical new car sale (esp. if you factor in fuel cost savings as Tesla does).

And if you think about it, it's also very much region dependent. In blue states (with high cost of living), these prices don't make people blink an eye. In low cost of living areas, I agree with you that it's a LOT of money. I personally am a big advocate of used cars due to depreciation (but there are some exceptions).

(As an aspiring environmentalist) I sorta hate to buy another ICE car, but I kind of agree with you that if I had to buy something now, it's probably going to be ICE. Who knows, maybe I can hold off the woman long enough for the Model Y to enter the discussion LOL.

Yeah, I'm curious about the company's plan, with so much debt nearing maturity. So far:

* Had $3.7 billion in cash at the end of last year
* Had $11 billion in debt at the end of last year
* Just paid off $920 million in convertible bonds
* $566 million in notes that come due in November
* $1.1 billion credit line that comes due in June 2020
* $1.38 billion in notes that mature in March 2021
* $978 million due in March 2022

So the recent announcements were:

* $35k Tesla Model 3 now available
* Full-self driving (but still requires babysitting) available at the end of 2019
* Supercharger V3 announced (this Wednesday)
* Model Y announcement in a couple weeks
* Pickup truck announcement later this year
* Semi-truck in the works
* Roadster 2.0 in the works

Rumor has it that:

* Tesla is planning an S/X interior refresh this year
* Tesla is planning a full refresh in 2021
* Possible redesign of existing Tesla battery packs to take advantage of Supercharger V3 (maybe longer-range S/X too?)

So the full lineup will be:

* Roadster (retired)
* Roadster 2.0
* Stores (retired)
* Supercharger V3
* Model 3
* Model Y
* Model S
* Model X
* Pickup truck
* Semi-truck

Notes:

* They are facing some strong competition from Rivian in the pickup truck market
* Ford also announced they are doing an F-150 EV
* I don't see much competition for Autopilot for many years from other manufacturers
* Tesla could make a mint licensing out their AP tech to other companies
* LIDAR has been getting pretty compact lately & would do a great job supplementing the AP cameras
* There are going to be a TON of electric cars available within the next 5 years from pretty much all manufacturers
* Standard EV range is now in Tesla's territory; he Hyundai Kona EV gets 258 miles of range & the new Kia Soul EV gets 243-miles of range
* Tesla does zero advertising & is discontinuing all stores, so their self-driving game better get pretty strong pretty fast if they want to stand out over the next few years
* Still no heated steering wheel option in the Model 3, what the heck!

Going to be a busy year for Tesla! Very interested to see what the Y's production schedule is like.
 
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NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
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I want to know where the snake oil salesman is going to get the money to make a Model Y happen. Even a massive waiting list with deposits won't get them anywhere close enough.
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,688
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I want to know where the snake oil salesman is going to get the money to make a Model Y happen. Even a massive waiting list with deposits won't get them anywhere close enough.
Lol. Are you seriously doubting whether Model Y will happen or not? I'll give you a hint. It's 100% happening and people will be driving it on US roads in 2020.
 

bigi

Platinum Member
Aug 8, 2001
2,490
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Model Y unveil - March 14, 2019.

Model Y, being an SUV, is about 10% bigger than Model 3, so will cost about 10% more & have slightly less range for same battery
Show this thread

Model Y unveil event on March 14 at LA Design Studio
Show this thread

First public Tesla V3.0 Supercharger Station goes live Wed 8pm
 

NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,136
622
126
Lol. Are you seriously doubting whether Model Y will happen or not? I'll give you a hint. It's 100% happening and people will be driving it on US roads in 2020.
No, I'm wondering how Tesla can continue to remain solvent as a company. Yes, they're selling lots of cars but cash flow is bad. Plus that little issue where Elon likes to run his mouth and get the SEC all riled up.

So from a practical standpoint where will they get the cash to:
1.) Design a new car
2.) Build an assembly line for it
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,688
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No, I'm wondering how Tesla can continue to remain solvent as a company. Yes, they're selling lots of cars but cash flow is bad. Plus that little issue where Elon likes to run his mouth and get the SEC all riled up.

So from a practical standpoint where will they get the cash to:
1.) Design a new car
2.) Build an assembly line for it
No. You're asking the wrong questions. Your questions should be how will GM and Ford stay in business in the future selling ICE vehicles as the world moves towards EV and Tesla and China are eating their lunch. Are they going to be the next Sears and Kodak? Once great companies that failed to change and adapt.

You think Elon and Tesla can't tap the capital market if they really needed/wanted it? I remember the dumb bears saying how will Tesla build Gigafactory in China and where they were going to get the money to build it when they're broke. Now we know banks in China were fighting each other to lend Tesla the money to buy the land and build the Gigafactory in Shanghai.

Tesla produced almost $1.8 billion free cash flow in Q3 '18. They already have the design for the Model Y. Cars will be built at the Nevada Gigafactory and Shanghai Gigafactory.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
13,168
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Here are the actual free cash flow numbers:
https://www.zacks.com/stock/chart/TSLA/fundamental/free-cash-flow-quarterly

Two solid quarters (after burning through cash like drunken sailors for years). I’m not a finance guy, but Elon Musk has already said current Q1 will post a small net loss. There will be some one time charges due to layoffs/killing retail. Think about it, if U.S. demand for Tesla cars isn’t softening, then why cut prices across the board? Keep in mind there have been a few separate price cuts to Model 3 since Jan. 1.

So I’m guessing FCF will be merely slightly positive for this quarter. NutBucket asks a legit question about their cash burn rate to build cars in China and to launch an entire new production line. Car manufacturing requires massive investments, competing against entrenched large players. You can’t just hand wave this away by saying they have a superior product, and the coolest tech.

Honestly their debt position for the next 20 months doesn’t look that bad. The real problem is that you can only turn the levers of belt tightening so many times before there is no fat left to cut. Right now, they arguably have no serious competition but we know dozens of BEVs will be launched in the next few years. For Tesla to succeed, they need to sell hundreds of thousands of cars each year at a solid profit.

It’ll be interesting to watch, and I’m more or less rooting for them despite my bearish outlook.
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,688
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126
Here are the actual free cash flow numbers:
https://www.zacks.com/stock/chart/TSLA/fundamental/free-cash-flow-quarterly

Two solid quarters (after burning through cash like drunken sailors for years). I’m not a finance guy, but Elon Musk has already said current Q1 will post a small net loss. There will be some one time charges due to layoffs/killing retail. Think about it, if U.S. demand for Tesla cars isn’t softening, then why cut prices across the board? Keep in mind there have been a few separate price cuts to Model 3 since Jan. 1.

So I’m guessing FCF will be merely slightly positive for this quarter. NutBucket asks a legit question about their cash burn rate to build cars in China and to launch an entire new production line. Car manufacturing requires massive investments, competing against entrenched large players. You can’t just hand wave this away by saying they have a superior product, and the coolest tech.

Honestly their debt position for the next 20 months doesn’t look that bad. The real problem is that you can only turn the levers of belt tightening so many times before there is no fat left to cut. Right now, they arguably have no serious competition but we know dozens of BEVs will be launched in the next few years. For Tesla to succeed, they need to sell hundreds of thousands of cars each year at a solid profit.

It’ll be interesting to watch, and I’m more or less rooting for them despite my bearish outlook.
Cutting prices across the board is clearly demand lever move. It's natural for the demand to fall after US Fed tax rebate was cut in half. Add Jan/Feb seasonality and it makes sense. So they'll get some new buyers from this price cut move. Musk expects loss this quarter and small profit in Q2. He's clearly trying his best not to access the capital market and become self funding. Last two quarters showed Tesla can be quite profitable. I expect Tesla to start Model 3 leasing soon as well for additional lever. That will spur additional demand but will make their fiances look worse. But at the very worst scenario, they'll go to the capital market and do another debt/equity raise if they truly need the money and they have nothing further to cut. But thinking they'll go bankrupt or won't be able to access the capital market if needed is just shorts fantasy. Tesla is not going anywhere. GM and Ford are more in danger of bankruptcy than Tesla.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
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Sounds like a bunch of hand waving to me.

Tesla made a solid Q3 & Q4 profit when they could sell a Model 3 for $55k ASP.
Now that they are selling the base model, the ASP is most likely going to be $45k give or take. ASP of the high margin S/X are also being cut as well. Hence no net profit for the quarter.

So explain to us how selling more cars (or just maintaining recent sales volume) at significantly lower margin helps Tesla generate future profits and retire debt? The only two ways to increase profits are to manufacture more efficiently, or by raising prices (higher ASP can mean a better product mixture, not actual raising of prices).

We're not even getting into the billions needed to spin up Model Y production. I don't think Tesla has ever hit a production schedule that was publicly announced. We'll see what they say about the Y but how optimistic can you be that they will be mass producing a new vehicle in 2020? By mass produce, I don't mean the rounding error quantities of TM3 produced in 2017. Presumably they've learned so much from "production hell" that TMY will go according to plan, but that would be a first.

As far as capital markets, they can indeed go to equity or bond markets now. But wait too long until the economy softens (2020), and those markets will be closed. In the mid 2000s, Ford was savvy enough to basically mortgage everything they had to strengthen their balance sheet before the reckoning. GM and Chrysler simply failed, and had to be bailed out.

I'm not an auto industry analyst, but saying GM & Ford are in more danger of insolvency is a joke. GM & Ford do have plenty of issues on their plates, but they have time and stronger financials on their side. When you're in the business of selling $45k light trucks in the hundreds of thousands (to millions), all at a healthy profit margin, you still have time to react to advances in technology.

The sad thing is that enough Americans don't consider greenhouse gases a moral hazard that Detroit can continue to sell high margin ICE light trucks for many years to come.

Unlike @ponyo, I have no long or short position in Tesla so I have no vested interest in how their stock performs. Personally I would like to see Tesla succeed as an independent automaker, even if that means another legacy automaker fails.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
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I think the lack of any physical presence is going to be a bad decision.

It's pretty bad for me right now. All camera-related functions on my car are dead -- with the exception of the rear camera. This means that I don't have access to AutoSteer, Traffic-Assisted Cruise Control, Auto Headlights, Auto Wipers, Blindspot Assist, Speed Limits, etc. What's more frustrating is that even though TACC is dead, I still have no access to basic cruise control.

Although, the part that really bugs me is Tesla's overall attitude toward issues. Every time you bring up an issue to them, it's always this sort of "Oh, it'll sort itself out" response. When I mentioned that my turn signal didn't work correctly, the response was, "Oh, it's a firmware issue." (No, it wasn't.) When I brought up the issues with AutoPilot not working, I was told that the car was just recalibrating, and it would sort itself out. I asked if the car provides any indication that it is going to calibrate or the progress of said calibration, and they said no. Excuse my frustration over the issue, but what idiot considered that something that can disable major functionality in the car should have no indication?

So, yeah.... I'm going to call up Tesla first to find out what's the best course of action. I won't bring my car up if they don't even have the parts to fix it. My guess is that the MCU either needs to be tweaked/reflashed or replaced.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
50,976
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It's pretty bad for me right now. All camera-related functions on my car are dead -- with the exception of the rear camera. This means that I don't have access to AutoSteer, Traffic-Assisted Cruise Control, Auto Headlights, Auto Wipers, Blindspot Assist, Speed Limits, etc. What's more frustrating is that even though TACC is dead, I still have no access to basic cruise control.

Although, the part that really bugs me is Tesla's overall attitude toward issues. Every time you bring up an issue to them, it's always this sort of "Oh, it'll sort itself out" response. When I mentioned that my turn signal didn't work correctly, the response was, "Oh, it's a firmware issue." (No, it wasn't.) When I brought up the issues with AutoPilot not working, I was told that the car was just recalibrating, and it would sort itself out. I asked if the car provides any indication that it is going to calibrate or the progress of said calibration, and they said no. Excuse my frustration over the issue, but what idiot considered that something that can disable major functionality in the car should have no indication?

So, yeah.... I'm going to call up Tesla first to find out what's the best course of action. I won't bring my car up if they don't even have the parts to fix it. My guess is that the MCU either needs to be tweaked/reflashed or replaced.

So to recap:

1. Your Enhanced Autopilot is currently non-functional; only the backup camera works?
2. Your blinker is acting weird?

And you contacted them and they said just to wait it out??
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
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So to recap:

1. Your Enhanced Autopilot is currently non-functional; only the backup camera works?
2. Your blinker is acting weird?

And you contacted them and they said just to wait it out??

I asked them about the turn signal early on. Well, to be fair, I didn't talk to support. I talked to the people at the "local" service center, and they suggested that it was likely a firmware issue, and that it should sort itself out. I just kind of ignored it for a while, because it's always a pain to deal with car servicing -- even if it's local -- and while annoying, it still worked.

It isn't just Enhanced AutoPilot. It's literally anything that uses the front or side cameras, which includes blindspot indicator, auto rain-sensing wipers, and auto headlights. I actually don't mind not having those other three bits of tech -- albeit, I've gotten very used to auto-headlights over the years -- but with my previous cars, manually adjusting the wipers or headlights was easy. I knew where the physical controls were, and I never had to take my eyes off the road, but with the Tesla, the wipers are controlled by a slider at the bottom left (you have to tap to make it visible) and the headlights are under the car options.

The initial CS said that the Enhanced AutoPilot was just recalibrating itself, and that I should wait. It wasn't until I pieced together a few bits like how I noticed that the lights were on during a bright, sunny day that I knew something else was wrong. After relaying this to another CS, the person told me to reset the car, which I had already done days ago. That didn't do anything, so the response to that was to just make a service appointment. I think the part that's disappointing there is that when I Googled Tesla's support, I'd see accounts of people saying support would connect to their car to take a look at it and such, but I get none of that. I'd like to find out if there's some way to access a diagnostics menu or even get a live feed of the cameras. I've seen people post imagery from them.

I have a Mobile Support appointment, and I'm going to see if that person can take a peek at my other problems. If they can't fix it because it's out of their wheelhouse, maybe they can provide the service center with a diagnosis so we can ensure parts are available -- if necessary. Although, I will admit that I do cringe over the idea of a longer drive without cruise control. My right ankle seems to have hated me ever since I did a long, 14-hour drive in a U-Haul that had no cruise control. (My foot was literally convulsing after stopping.)
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
13,168
3,949
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Typical tier 1 (tech) support these days, pretend the customer is always wrong.

FWIW The Verge just reported that Tesla is un-closing most of its stores (supposedly breaking long term leases is a lot harder than imagined..), but the ordering process is still going to be 100% online. Oh, and most prices nudge back upwards by about 3%. :tearsofjoy:
 

NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,136
622
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Yeah, buying a car "online" without a physical store is nothing something that the vast majority of consumers are going to feel comfortable with for a while. What is surprising is how quickly Elon altered course on this decision.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
So, interesting news. I stopped off last night, and noticed that my back-up camera was looking a bit... odd. It had this weird purplish haze to it, and all I could think was "Please don't die on me too...!!" When I was getting in my car to head home, I noticed that my back-up camera was fine. On the drive, I noticed something... my steering wheel (AutoSteer) icon was back. In fact, all of my missing features were back. Essentially, after about a week, the car... "fixed itself"?

I still have an appointment with the Mobile Service for the other issues with the car, and I'll see if they can peek at the hardware diagnostics.

Yeah, buying a car "online" without a physical store is nothing something that the vast majority of consumers are going to feel comfortable with for a while. What is surprising is how quickly Elon altered course on this decision.

Keep in mind that Tesla has usually relied quite a bit on their owners to help promote the car to people they know. The thing is... most people will gladly do it. I wonder if it relates to the weird way that people look at Tesla cars. For example, if I tell people that I have an EV, and then that it's a Model 3, the response is usually something like "no, you have a Tesla". They realize that it's an EV, but it's kind of like how an iPhone isn't just "a smartphone".
 

NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,136
622
126
Even at the relatively young age of 35 I don't like the idea. Plus I hate not being able to haggle. I find it sort of fun.

Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk
 

zapbrannigan99

Junior Member
Mar 12, 2019
1
0
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Even at the relatively young age of 35 I don't like the idea. Plus I hate not being able to haggle. I find it sort of fun.

Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk

Honestly I hate the dealership experience in the US. Tesla nailed it by doing direct sales with fixed prices. Look at the Kona EV - some dealers were marking it up $5-$8k above list.

The launch of the $35k model 3 has got me worried for the used car market though. Almost bought a BMW 3 series a week before it was announced. Thank god I didn't pull the trigger, the residuals will be a disaster in a year or so. EVs make gas just seem so old fashioned.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
50,976
6,901
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Keep in mind that Tesla has usually relied quite a bit on their owners to help promote the car to people they know. The thing is... most people will gladly do it. I wonder if it relates to the weird way that people look at Tesla cars. For example, if I tell people that I have an EV, and then that it's a Model 3, the response is usually something like "no, you have a Tesla". They realize that it's an EV, but it's kind of like how an iPhone isn't just "a smartphone".

My buddy just ordered the $35k base model...he said it was the easiest car-buying experience he ever had! Hop on the website, place the order, all done! He ended up getting the Plus option (extra 20 miles, plus a few other frills) & the nicer 19" rims, but no Autopilot or FSD. I'm very curious to see how a non-smart Tesla is to drive...it just has standard cruise control, not even traffic-aware cruise control.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
My buddy just ordered the $35k base model...he said it was the easiest car-buying experience he ever had! Hop on the website, place the order, all done! He ended up getting the Plus option (extra 20 miles, plus a few other frills) & the nicer 19" rims, but no Autopilot or FSD. I'm very curious to see how a non-smart Tesla is to drive...it just has standard cruise control, not even traffic-aware cruise control.

Honestly, if he doesn't sit in traffic most of the time, at least in my opinion, he might be better off with normal cruise control. I still wish I had access to it as the TACC slows down so early, and I'd rather not start slowing down, eventually move over, and have to regain all of that lost speed. It also causes me to do something that I hate doing, and that's sitting in the left lane more. The reason is that I know if I move back over, I only have maybe a few seconds before TACC would start slowing down for the next car.

What I'm more curious about is how he'll like the in-cabin changes with the Partial Premium Interior compared to the full-fledged Premium Interior. The biggest differences that I see are no streaming, no garage door opener, no traffic visualization, and "less immersive audio" (no one is sure what the configuration is). Although, it's worth noting that the streaming and traffic are not free even if you have the Premium Interior. After the first year, the fancy Internet features cost $100 a year. Given how Tesla uses AT&T and how bad AT&T is around here, it's a real debate on whether it's worth it. AT&T has this issue where it fails to properly pass off to a new tower, which you'll see when you have about 3 bars and nothing is working, but a few seconds later, you're at full signal and it starts working. I had a similar problem with my iPhone before I switched to Verizon years ago. I could be at a place, have reception, but nothing worked. If I got in the car and drove, once the signal passed to a new tower, it worked fine.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
50,976
6,901
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Honestly, if he doesn't sit in traffic most of the time, at least in my opinion, he might be better off with normal cruise control. I still wish I had access to it as the TACC slows down so early, and I'd rather not start slowing down, eventually move over, and have to regain all of that lost speed. It also causes me to do something that I hate doing, and that's sitting in the left lane more. The reason is that I know if I move back over, I only have maybe a few seconds before TACC would start slowing down for the next car.

What I'm more curious about is how he'll like the in-cabin changes with the Partial Premium Interior compared to the full-fledged Premium Interior. The biggest differences that I see are no streaming, no garage door opener, no traffic visualization, and "less immersive audio" (no one is sure what the configuration is). Although, it's worth noting that the streaming and traffic are not free even if you have the Premium Interior. After the first year, the fancy Internet features cost $100 a year. Given how Tesla uses AT&T and how bad AT&T is around here, it's a real debate on whether it's worth it. AT&T has this issue where it fails to properly pass off to a new tower, which you'll see when you have about 3 bars and nothing is working, but a few seconds later, you're at full signal and it starts working. I had a similar problem with my iPhone before I switched to Verizon years ago. I could be at a place, have reception, but nothing worked. If I got in the car and drove, once the signal passed to a new tower, it worked fine.

1. He has a very short work commute & has a lot of stuff in his town. He wanted TACC, but only TACC, not auto-steer & everything else. On a tangent, when I got rid of my Renegade, I really wanted to get TACC on my next car, as I drive a lot of highway miles. It came down to the Honda Rideline truck & the Ford Mustang. The Ridgeline has a somewhat poor implementation of the Honda Sense suite, which doesn't behave like the CRV...it over-compensates even worse than the Tesla by leaving too big of a gap between cars even on the lowest distance setting & then braking harder & more often than it needs to.

My wife's Forester has EyeSight, which has a really good implementation of TACC. The Mustang has Ford's version of adaptive cruise control, except that I hated the 10-speed transmission (especially after the Renegade's crummy 9-speed implementation), so I went with stick-shift. Surprisingly, they do offer adaptive cruise on stick-shift, except that (1) it disengages as soon as you press the clutch pedal, which is annoying (I didn't get the package, and even regular cruise control disengages when you engage the clutch), (2) it disengages when you slow down (which makes sense, re: manual transmission), and (3) it was a pretty rare option on the 6-speed manual configuration.

I bought a year-end model (outgoing '18) & decided I didn't "need" it as a must-have, especially as it was super hard to find, even on the existing remaining stock of the available '18 automatic models. As I've driven the car over the last 6 months, I've found that I rarely even use cruise control (I used it a ton on my Renegade) because shifting in traffic is even more fun when you actually have the power to go with it, haha! The only thing I wish it had was blindspot detectors, not because the sports car visibility is bad (it's actually quite good! better than my previous 2nd-gen Kia Soul, actually!), but just for safety reasons, as my state has some pretty insane roads. I can always add it aftermarket down the road, however, as they sell kits (Goshers etc.).

He is taking his 3 on a road-trip this summer & it looks like Tesla still offers the free Autopilot trial for a month, so he'll probably get that enabled for the trip to see how it works. I'm very curious to see if Tesla can meet their promise of FSD at the end of the year...

2. I'll take some pictures when he gets it. He really wanted the premium seats, as they are ridiculously comfortable, but again, his commute is pretty short. He's driving a Honda Fit EV now & installed the charger literally by his front door (no garage, so no garage door opener needed), so this is a perfect swap. His biggest issue with his Fit is the winter range...the batteries aren't insulated, so he gets about 19 miles of range at 20F, and about 5 miles of range at 0F, which is pretty useless, especially because when you turn on the heat while driving, it eats up the range like crazy!

I'll also have to compare it to the new Nissan Leaf. My other buddy just replaced his OG Leaf with the upgraded version, but also kept his old one (100k+ miles on an 80-mile battery!). 2008 - 2015 Leafs are selling between $7k to $12k around here with 20-40k miles on them...super cheap, if you can handle the range limitations, and I hate to say it, but as much fun to drive as my Mustang (in the city at >40mph, at least), thanks to the instant torque & low CG/weight of the battery.

3. He mostly listens to podcasts, so he wasn't too worried about the speaker setup, and that can always be modified later with a Da Vinci DAC or whatever.

4. AT&T is terrible in our area. I switched from AT&T to Verizon like you did on my personal phone because of this.

5. Tesla's website is amazingly spartan about the differences between models & options. One of my buddies has a loaded X, so I'll have to compare stuff like traffic visualization & Internet browsing to the Standard Plus Model 3's configuration.

6. The Standard 3 is 0 to 60 in 5.6 seconds, and the Plus is 5.3, which is what my Ecoboost Mustang is rated at. But I have to shift manually, and I think the instant torque off the line will be a huge advantage for the 3.