$35,000 Tesla Model III Is Coming In 2017

[monkeydelmagico]

I'm very curious to see how many they sell of that particular model - like actually $35k OTD with no other options.

I am too. The timing is terrible. By the time they actually start selling a version that cheapskates would be willing to consider the tax credit that would make it desirable will be exhausted.

I mistook it for an S at first, because it looked so nice.

Yeah from the front or in your rear view mirror it's difficult to distinguish the two. I saw a black one yesterday and think that it looked sharp even with the aero rims.

 

[JoeBleed]

Brovane, somewhat unrelated question, what do you think of what this guy does considering it isn't "sanction" by Elon? Do you feel that Elon disabling features on a car due to a salvaged title and not being re-certified by them to be against a right to repair your own cars?

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfV0_wbjG8KJADuZT2ct4SA

 

[ponyo]

I've been seeing more & more Model 3's pop up lately. Color-wise, I'm not a big fan of the white (looks great on the S & X though, especially on the S with the dark rims!). Blue & the dark grey look really good on it. Haven't seen a black one yet. The red was pretty decent, although I like the new Mazda red a lot better (like on the CX-5), but it does look very classy on the 3. I mistook it for an S at first, because it looked so nice. Still have mixed feelings about the aero rims - the red paintjob with the dark gray aero rims was a surprisingly good combination IRL, but in pictures, I didn't like it at all.

If I get one, it would be black because it's free option. I'm cheap like that.

maybe you've said and i forgot, but what do you think of the dashboard and the traditional instrument cluster location being replaced by that touch screen in the center. and not even embedded, just kind of mounted there.? i can't stand that concept myself. that alone would keep me from even taking one for free. And that's not an exaggeration. One video said the screen isn't movable. ugh..

I don't mind the center touch screen. I wished it also had Heads Up Display as I really like HUD on my Corvette.

I am too. The timing is terrible. By the time they actually start selling a version that cheapskates would be willing to consider the tax credit that would make it desirable will be exhausted.

Yeah from the front or in your rear view mirror it's difficult to distinguish the two. I saw a black one yesterday and think that it looked sharp even with the aero rims.

I think most people will get some form of tax credit even on the $35k base model since the reduced tax credit will run all the way to the end of 2019. I don't need the Model 3 since I already have four cars and no extra garage space but I might pull the trigger on the long range model before end of this year for the $7.5k tax credit.

 

[Kaido]

maybe you've said and i forgot, but what do you think of the dashboard and the traditional instrument cluster location being replaced by that touch screen in the center. and not even embedded, just kind of mounted there.? i can't stand that concept myself. that alone would keep me from even taking one for free. And that's not an exaggeration. One video said the screen isn't movable. ugh..

1. I like the idea (note: just the idea) from a minimalist standpoint, and I understand why they're doing it from a production standpoint (to reduce the number of things that can break, for starters). I think it will be great...AFTER autopilot is fully enabled with FSD.

2. I hate the actual implementation. I'm very practical when it comes to interfaces; I still think the Tivo peanut remote is the best design ever made because each button had a different shape that you could feel for in the dark. One of the things I really like about my Jeep is that it has large, logically-placed buttons in front center stack - I don't have to take my eyes off the road to change the HVAC settings or radio settings. And yes, my steering wheel has controls, but sometimes you want to yank the volume down quickly & a dial is really the fastest way to do that. So I think they missed the boat in terms of usability. Same thing with the Model X's falcon wing doors - really cool, but it would have been a much better car if they had just gone with a minivan-style sliding door. But Tesla wanted to make a statement & the car definitely stands out from the crowd with the minimalist interior design. Although I'm sad they didn't include a HUD! Elon has some interesting things to say about the X's doors here:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brooke...and-explains-migration-of-model-3-technology/

3. I've used the giant touchscreen in the S & X and I personally do not care for it. It's mostly done to show off technology, like the falcon wing doors on the X, and I think it looks kinda slapped on. Apple still owns the market on a consistently fast interface & excellent touch responsiveness with their iOS products, and even the Tesla's setup doesn't feel as nice (and most cars with touchscreens have somewhat terrible interaces, haha). Also don't like having that much light at night (even in dark mode).

I think it won't matter once they release full self-driving, but it will still be mildly annoying if you like buttons (which I do). So I understand it, I just don't care for it all that much. Maybe if FSD comes out next month & they let you stream Netflix, I'll change my mind

 

[Kaido]

If I get one, it would be black because it's free option. I'm cheap like that.

The blue is a really great color on it. And I've never been a fan of silver, but after seeing the dark gray gunmetal color on the X, I fell in love with it.

They have regular black & then like a metallic black on the 3. I'd be curious to see how the two compare IRL...

 

[JoeBleed]

I don't mind the center touch screen. I wished it also had Heads Up Display as I really like HUD on my Corvette.

A good HUD might make it livable, but i doubt they can dim or night mode that display well enough to not be a bother to me at night. and it didn't seem to be movable so i would think it would be hard to read. Plus the push to hands free and no cell phone use while driving, this really takes away from attention to driving. you lose your tactile feel for controls for hvac and radio. I'm also trying to remember now if there was a windshield wiper control on the steering column or if that's also controlled by the screen.

 

[Kaido]

I don't mind the center touch screen. I wished it also had Heads Up Display as I really like HUD on my Corvette.

I just drove a car with a HUD (Buick LaCrosse, I think) and I REALLY liked it! I've also used several aftermarket HUD systems (ranging from the cheapo ones that reflect your cell phone, to the good ones that have an integrated microprocessor) & they are pretty neat. Nothing beats built-in tho, imo, I think having it right on your windshield, in your face, in your line of vision, is a really great idea for GPS, speed, BLIS, etc.

iirc Elon said a HUD will never happen in a Tesla because FSD will negate the need for it. Maybe...

 

[ponyo]

I just drove a car with a HUD (Buick LaCrosse, I think) and I REALLY liked it! I've also used several aftermarket HUD systems (ranging from the cheapo ones that reflect your cell phone, to the good ones that have an integrated microprocessor) & they are pretty neat. Nothing beats built-in tho, imo, I think having it right on your windshield, in your face, in your line of vision, is a really great idea for GPS, speed, BLIS, etc.

iirc Elon said a HUD will never happen in a Tesla because FSD will negate the need for it. Maybe...

I don't look at HUD much when I'm driving. I just glance at it occasionally with corner of my eyes and I bet it's the same way with the center touch screen display on the Model 3. I really liked the Model 3 car when I went to take a look at it. I think it's good looking car.

 

[Kaido]

A good HUD might make it livable, but i doubt they can dim or night mode that display well enough to not be a bother to me at night. and it didn't seem to be movable so i would think it would be hard to read. Plus the push to hands free and no cell phone use while driving, this really takes away from attention to driving. you lose your tactile feel for controls for hvac and radio. I'm also trying to remember now if there was a windshield wiper control on the steering column or if that's also controlled by the screen.

1. I believe it's fixed in place. No movement or tilt or angle adjustment at all, iirc.

2. Would have been better to have it face forward & rotate into the driver's view (no option to angle towards the passenger, for safety reasons).

3. An 8" screen is about the right size, imo. Maybe a 10" for backup camera purposes. But I found the 17" vertical screens too bright, and while I haven't tested the 3 yet (especially not at night), I think, to me at least, it would be annoying, even in "night mode" (gotta test it tho!). They just built 100 Performance Model 3's to send out as test-drive cars & I've already signed up, so I'll have to check it out in both daytime & nighttime driving.

 

[Kaido]

I don't look at HUD much when I'm driving. I just glance at it occasionally with corner of my eyes and I bet it's the same way with the center touch screen display on the Model 3. I really liked the Model 3 car when I went to take a look at it. I think it's good looking car.

How well did you fit in it? One option I'm entertaining is selling my Jeep, getting 3, driving that for a couple years, then getting a Model Y & keeping that for a long time.

 

[ponyo]

How well did you fit in it? One option I'm entertaining is selling my Jeep, getting 3, driving that for a couple years, then getting a Model Y & keeping that for a long time.

Very well. I'm 6 ft and about 185 lbs so I'm like the optimal size for any car and really don't have problem with fit. If I get the Model 3, I will likely get rid of the Sienna since I have the LX470 for vacation road trips. The most logical choice for me is to get rid of the C6 Corvette since I never drive it and only put 10k miles total in 11 years. But getting rid of it now would be a waste and I rather keep the C6 forever at this stage. And I can't get rid of my Tundra since I use it for work.

 

[Kaido]

Very well. I'm 6 ft and about 185 lbs so I'm like the optimal size for any car and really don't have problem with fit. If I get the Model 3, I will likely get rid of the Sienna since I have the LX470 for vacation road trips. The most logical choice for me is to get rid of the C6 Corvette since I never drive it and only put 10k miles total in 11 years. But getting rid of it now would be a waste and I rather keep the C6 forever at this stage. And I can't get rid of my Tundra since I use it for work.

My buddy just passed 100k on his Honda Fit EV...has had to change the tires out once & that's pretty much been it as far as maintenance goes. Not even brakework required (it has regen). That's the biggest appeal to me...ultra-low maintenance (plus Autopilot! if it doesn't kill me! lol) I could make the 310-mile range work & still have room to avoid range anxiety on most days, as I no longer work out-of-state, so even round-trips typically wouldn't require a recharge.

Time to cash in my ATOT CoolCoin & blow it all on an $80k Model 3?

 

[Pantoot]

My buddy just passed 100k on his Honda Fit EV...
That's the biggest appeal to me...ultra-low maintenance

Tesla certainly isn't Honda.
I haven't looked, but make sure you check the service schedule for the 3. I know for the S they recommend an annual service, and I just did the 2 year on my wife's for a cool $725. Sure, its only recommended, but I am hoping (dreaming?) that I can keep these cars long term.
I guess my point is, this ultra low maintenance might not be reality. I am already stockpiling cash for the out of warranty repairs that I know I am going to have.

 

[bradly1101]

It can even land when it and the airport have the proper equipment.

That's the thing; cars need the ability to electronically talk to each other rather than relying on cameras and sensors. The two systems could back each other up.

So IMO self-driving requires rethinking it.

 

[Kaido]

Tesla certainly isn't Honda.
I haven't looked, but make sure you check the service schedule for the 3. I know for the S they recommend an annual service, and I just did the 2 year on my wife's for a cool $725. Sure, its only recommended, but I am hoping (dreaming?) that I can keep these cars long term.
I guess my point is, this ultra low maintenance might not be reality. I am already stockpiling cash for the out of warranty repairs that I know I am going to have.

One of my biggest worries is body repair - fender benders, accidents, door dings, etc. Which is partly why I'm in no rush at all right now...I'd rather see them figure out the production line stuff & get it 100% standardized, figure out the AP + FSD stuff (at least to the point where it won't run into a static barrier or stopped car) and get more bodyshops available so you can get your car back in a reasonable time period.

 

[Pantoot]

One of my biggest worries is body repair - fender benders, accidents, door dings, etc. Which is partly why I'm in no rush at all right now...I'd rather see them figure out the production line stuff & get it 100% standardized, figure out the AP + FSD stuff (at least to the point where it won't run into a static barrier or stopped car) and get more bodyshops available so you can get your car back in a reasonable time period.

Very valid concerns (well, except the AP killing you, but I think I beat that horse to death.) Tesla's refusal to distribute service manuals (except in Massachusetts, because they have to) and their lock down on approved service shops is a situation that I believe has to change with the release of the model 3.
I saw a post above that brought this up, but Tesla's stranglehold on the cars they sell, long after the sale, is something that needs to be challenged in court. If I want to make modifications or restore a salvage I should have that right.

 

[ponyo]

 

[Kaido]

I saw a post above that brought this up, but Tesla's stranglehold on the cars they sell, long after the sale, is something that needs to be challenged in court. If I want to make modifications or restore a salvage I should have that right.

It's difficult because it's very controlling, but for good reason - Tesla's brand is rolling with every vehicle sold, and they're riding on (1) electric, and (2) self-driving, so there's a lot at stake, especially because every AP crash & fire gets nationally publicized. It's kind of like how Apple controls their products, and how that one lady got electrocuted when not using a certified charger - they can ensure their own product quality if they control the iPhone/iPod/iPad, the app store, the chargers, etc. Tesla vehicles are continually updated via new software releases, and modifying them much outside of aesthetic stuff risks screwing up what they built. I don't want to sound like a downer or anti-modification, but Tesla cars are appliances in much the same way that iPhones are appliances. They don't want to get blamed if something goes wrong thanks to an aftermarket modification or repair job, which is understandable.

 

[JoeBleed]

That's the thing; cars need the ability to electronically talk to each other rather than relying on cameras and sensors. The two systems could back each other up.

So IMO self-driving requires rethinking it.

I agree.

 

[JoeBleed]

It's difficult because it's very controlling, but for good reason - Tesla's brand is rolling with every vehicle sold, and they're riding on (1) electric, and (2) self-driving, so there's a lot at stake, especially because every AP crash & fire gets nationally publicized. It's kind of like how Apple controls their products, and how that one lady got electrocuted when not using a certified charger - they can ensure their own product quality if they control the iPhone/iPod/iPad, the app store, the chargers, etc. Tesla vehicles are continually updated via new software releases, and modifying them much outside of aesthetic stuff risks screwing up what they built. I don't want to sound like a downer or anti-modification, but Tesla cars are appliances in much the same way that iPhones are appliances. They don't want to get blamed if something goes wrong thanks to an aftermarket modification or repair job, which is understandable.

The right to repair has been around for a long time with car manufactures not being liable for shoddy work done by a mechanic either dealer or others. This is nothing new, but for some reason, people seem to be turning a blind eye to. Any work done shouldn't matter as long as it was done correctly and not damaging system functionality. And if the Tesla can't properly detect a faulty or bad sensor for their driving assist, then that IS on the manufacture for filing to do so.

Same thing for apple but that's a whole other thing that will derail this thread.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

That's the thing; cars need the ability to electronically talk to each other rather than relying on cameras and sensors. The two systems could back each other up.

So IMO self-driving requires rethinking it.

It's been thought about for some time now.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/samabu...mmunications-roll-out-from-2021/#6b14bed1146c

I believe the cameras and sensors will end up being a fail safe mode for if/when V2V communications get disrupted. It's good that both technologies are being developed in parallel.

 

[Kaido]

It's been thought about for some time now.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/samabu...mmunications-roll-out-from-2021/#6b14bed1146c

I believe the cameras and sensors will end up being a fail safe mode for if/when V2V communications get disrupted. It's good that both technologies are being developed in parallel.

I like the idea, but the difficulty lies in implementation. We've produced over a billion cars worldwide already (historically) & are hitting 70 million produced annually on a global scale. So there are a LOT of legacy vehicles out there that currently don't have the ability to communicate with the infrastructure, at least not without retrofitting, and new "smart" cars still need some way to figure out sensor-free roads & driving with sensor-less cars.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

I don't want to sound like a downer or anti-modification, but Tesla cars are appliances in much the same way that iPhones are appliances. They don't want to get blamed if something goes wrong thanks to an aftermarket modification or repair job, which is understandable.

The only problem with that logic is the violations to Magnuson Moss warranty act. Tesla is using a strong arm tactic similar to some other major players.
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/gv5ddm/warranty-void-if-removed-stickers-are-illegal

When it comes to cars we have a long history of rolling up our sleeves and doing the work in our garage.

 

[Kaido]

The right to repair has been around for a long time with car manufactures not being liable for shoddy work done by a mechanic either dealer or others. This is nothing new, but for some reason, people seem to be turning a blind eye to. Any work done shouldn't matter as long as it was done correctly and not damaging system functionality. And if the Tesla can't properly detect a faulty or bad sensor for their driving assist, then that IS on the manufacture for filing to do so.

Same thing for apple but that's a whole other thing that will derail this thread.

I don't disagree (especially on the Apple thing, re: particularly that dude on Youtube who shows you how to repair "unrepairable" Apple products), but I do think the story has gotten more complicated with the additional AI type of stuff that Tesla is putting into your products. But you're right, their system should be smart enough to be able to figure out if something is faulty.

 

[Kaido]

The only problem with that logic is the violations to Magnuson Moss warranty act. Tesla is using a strong arm tactic similar to some other major players.
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/gv5ddm/warranty-void-if-removed-stickers-are-illegal

When it comes to cars we have a long history of rolling up our sleeves and doing the work in our garage.

Yes, I don't disagree, but I do think the situation is more complicated now than just nuts & bolts on an average car. For example, do we really want people hacking into the self-driving software on a Tesla?

My Jeep, for instance, is a lemon. Unfortunately, it's also highly-controlled by a central computer, which keeps failing in my vehicle (I'll probably be on my 8th BCM by the end of the year, lol). It's not something I can just "fix" myself, you know? Everything is so electronically controlled these days, it's not even funny. Even my parking brake is a pushbutton (which has gotten stuck in the "locked" position multiple times & left me stuck in parking lots, thanks software!).

Speaking of my Renegade, I love to complain about it Yesterday it decided not to detect my keyfob (wireless near-field entry). So I pulled out the built-in key, opened the door, and the alarm proceeded to go off for 15 minutes straight because it didn't detect the keyfob upon entry, despite me using a key. Highly embarrassing. I tried to use the emergency call feature in Uconnect to get an operator to disable it, but all of the operators were busy & so I started doing a monkey dance to get the car to detect the fob, which it did eventually (after 15 long minutes, all while the car was still on hold with the Jeep support people).

Anyway, enough rambling, haha. I do think we should have the right to repair things. My question is what can be repaired & what can't be repaired by a Tesla-authorized shop vs. a non-Tesla-authorized shop, you know? I'd imagine the AP cameras have very specific locations with measured distances & angles, for example. I can see replacing like a body panel or something, but at what point do you get into risky territory by modifying or doing a DIY repair on an EV with Autopilot?