$35,000 Tesla Model III Is Coming In 2017

[zinfamous]

I agree Model S wasn't built with racing in mind. When Tesla released the Model S in 2012, it was designed to be comfortable highway cruiser for the American roads. Tesla was focused on battery range and motor efficiency. You can see how good the 2012 Model S design was considering cars released today by other automakers are struggling to match 2012 Model S performance and range. Porsche took and studied the Model S and used 2015 Model S as the baseline car to beat. Porsche knew they couldn't beat Tesla in battery range efficiency so they tried to match or beat Tesla in everything else and focused on racing where they had more experience and Model S only major weak point. So Porsche built Taycan with racing in mind to beat Tesla. And Porsche did a good job with Taycan minus the price and range. But it's foolish to think Tesla couldn't design fast race car if they wanted to. Tesla lead in EV is unmatched. All these "Tesla killers" coming out now are just confirming what Tesla fans already knew. Tesla has 3-5 years technology lead on everyone. So while Porsche may tout Taycan fast Nürburgring time, Tesla was prepared for Taycan's arrival. Tesla knows better than Porsche the weak points of the Model S. It's why they updated the Model S to Raven motor and cooling in May and Tesla brought Model S Plaid to Nürburgring. The Model S Plaid is actually 2017 Model S buyback lemon car Tesla have been doing testing and development work on. It's 7 seats passenger car. So the Plaid edition is not something Elon and Tesla just dreamed up last week. Tesla have been working on Plaid and was just waiting for Porsche to unveil the Taycan so they could show it off to the world.

I don't know man...I'd still take Porsche and the others over Tesla when it comes to designing a proper racing car with all that is required for racing. The battery tech is really just...barely any percentage of that expertise that is needed. In all seriousness, Tesla has many more hills to climb on that battle that anyone else does.

Don't forget that it has taken Porsche about 60 years to figure out how to make a rear-engined, RWD car not kill everyone that is sitting in it, and they do it very very well these days. But that took years of development and meticulous refinement ...(some might argue that they were just stupid to insist that they even bother with it, that they were just wasting time all along; but then they are German, you were never going to change their minds anyway, and look where they are now!). Anyway, not that RE/RWD is going to be the direct comparison, just that the expertise and knowledge to do a proper racing car is far more than simply comparing power-delivery expertise between electric and ICE motors.

I would definitely like to see Tesla succeed here, no reason they can't--just that it's not going to happen overnight, unless they buy a bunch of engineers from Mercedes, Porsche, Ferrari, et al, that really know how to do this. They can't just win at a thing because they think they can, and because they are really good at only one out of the twenty or more things that are needed for them to be good at this particular thing.

And yeah, it would be a cool demo to show if they have made this one unicorn car, but no one cares if they can't produce the thing. There are standards to meet--Isn't it something like minimum 100 cars manufactured, before any international body will recognize your street racer, and license it for competition? This goes back decades. This wasn't set up "to get" Tesla and prevent them from succeeding, some decades before they ever existed. A lot of these companies have amazing performance cars that do amazing things on the Nurburgring, but were never really manufactured to any number, so no one bothers.

 

[ponyo]

I don't know man...I'd still take Porsche and the others over Tesla when it comes to designing a proper racing car with all that is required for racing. The battery tech is really just...barely any percentage of that expertise that is needed. In all seriousness, Tesla has many more hills to climb on that battle that anyone else does.

Don't forget that it has taken Porsche about 60 years to figure out how to make a rear-engined, RWD car not kill everyone that is sitting in it, and they do it very very well these days. But that took years of development and meticulous refinement ...(some might argue that they were just stupid to insist that they even bother with it, that they were just wasting time all along; but then they are German, you were never going to change their minds anyway, and look where they are now!). Anyway, not that RE/RWD is going to be the direct comparison, just that the expertise and knowledge to do a proper racing car is far more than simply comparing power-delivery expertise between electric and ICE motors.

I would definitely like to see Tesla succeed here, no reason they can't--just that it's not going to happen overnight, unless they buy a bunch of engineers from Mercedes, Porsche, Ferrari, et al, that really know how to do this. They can't just win at a thing because they think they can, and because they are really good at only one out of the twenty or more things that are needed for them to be good at this particular thing.

And yeah, it would be a cool demo to show if they have made this one unicorn car, but no one cares if they can't produce the thing. There are standards to meet--Isn't it something like minimum 100 cars manufactured, before any international body will recognize your street racer, and license it for competition? This goes back decades. This wasn't set up "to get" Tesla and prevent them from succeeding, some decades before they ever existed. A lot of these companies have amazing performance cars that do amazing things on the Nurburgring, but were never really manufactured to any number, so no one bothers.

You're putting Porsche and other legacy automakers up on a pedestal while completely dismissing the major accomplishments and the incredible engineering talents at Tesla. Sure it's taken Porsche 60 years to perfect rear-engine, RWD car. Mercedes have been making cars with engine for over 100 years. But what good is all that engine knowledge when combustible engine is no longer needed? What good are all those huge engine factories when future cars won't need engines? It's like when typewriter makers might have perfected the typewriter but what good was that when everyone switched to computers? Same as when Nokia and others made great dumb phones but couldn't compete with the new kid on the block, Apple, with their superior and game changing iPhone. Same with Kodak and Fuji perfecting the film camera but couldn't adapt to the changes to digital film. You get the point.

Legacy automakers have perfected the automotive engine. But like I said, what good is that engine knowledge when it will no longer be needed just like carburetor knowledge is no longer needed. Engines are dead weight and what's going to sink the legacy automakers. Electric motors and batteries are the new engines. And Tesla has the most knowledge and massive technical lead on everyone else in that department along with massive lead in software, AI, and vertical integration. No one has their own Giga battery factory like Tesla. That's a huge advantage for Tesla.

You're impressed with Porsche, Ferrari, Mercedes, and others racing knowledge and history. But that's with ICE. You're saying Tesla has no ICE tradition and history so they must be inferior. Let me ask you this. What kind of history Porsche, Ferrari, and Mercedes have with software and rocket technology? Because Tesla has software and rocket technology. You're going to see both on the 2021 Roadster SpaceX package with cold air thrusters aiding and improving track performance of the Roadster. It's a whole new ballgame and I will bet my money on Elon and Tesla's superior knowledge of physics and science over ICE racing knowledge of the legacy automakers.

 

[zinfamous]

You're putting Porsche and other legacy automakers up on a pedestal while completely dismissing the major accomplishments and the incredible engineering talents at Tesla. Sure it's taken Porsche 60 years to perfect rear-engine, RWD car. Mercedes have been making cars with engine for over 100 years. But what good is all that engine knowledge when combustible engine is no longer needed? What good are all those huge engine factories when future cars won't need engines? It's like when typewriter makers might have perfected the typewriter but what good was that when everyone switched to computers? Same as when Nokia and others made great dumb phones but couldn't compete with the new kid on the block, Apple, with their superior and game changing iPhone. Same with Kodak and Fuji perfecting the film camera but couldn't adapt to the changes to digital film. You get the point.

Legacy automakers have perfected the automotive engine. But like I said, what good is that engine knowledge when it will no longer be needed just like carburetor knowledge is no longer needed. Engines are dead weight and what's going to sink the legacy automakers. Electric motors and batteries are the new engines. And Tesla has the most knowledge and massive technical lead on everyone else in that department along with massive lead in software, AI, and vertical integration. No one has their own Giga battery factory like Tesla. That's a huge advantage for Tesla.

You're impressed with Porsche, Ferrari, Mercedes, and others racing knowledge and history. But that's with ICE. You're saying Tesla has no ICE tradition and history so they must be inferior. Let me ask you this. What kind of history Porsche, Ferrari, and Mercedes have with software and rocket technology? Because Tesla has software and rocket technology. You're going to see both on the 2021 Roadster SpaceX package with cold air thrusters aiding and improving track performance of the Roadster. It's a whole new ballgame and I will bet my money on Elon and Tesla's superior knowledge of physics and science over ICE racing knowledge of the legacy automakers.

You're putting Tesla up on a pedestal while completely dismissing the major accomplishments and the incredible engineering talents at all the other automakers.


.....basically how I read a lot of your Tesla posts. ...actually, the point of my posts wasn't even about engines (because it doesn't matter in this subject). It's about racing performance related to chassis and everything else. It eliminates what makes Tesla innovative, and demands that they learn how to design a car the way it is to be designed....so yes, you are literally ignoring those innovations because everything that Tesla has done up to this point isn't that relevant in this latest task. (yes, it looks like they can run hot without catching on fire now, so that's good.)

But notice that I never dismissed things that Tesla has done--only that they make many claims that only by their shear, unique brilliance, will they do a thing they have not yet proven capable of doing. They have done some of those things, but this is an industry where, quite literally, the rubber meets the road when it comes to wild claims.

I'd be more fond of them if Elon would just shut his trap and disappear from public, quite honestly.

 

[ponyo]

Racing is physics. Model S Plaid has 3 motors. Eventually, the fastest cars will have 4 motors, one on each wheel. And probably cold air rocket thrusters like the SpaceX Roadster. No one has designed a car like that before. So there is no blueprint to go by other than physics. Not with sophisticated electronics and computer that can independently control each rocket thrusters and power and aid the car during the initial launch and during turns. Tesla is building and testing these cars. Tesla will fail, learn, and improve like they've always done.

Love or hate him, no auto CEO has the physics and science knowledge of Elon and he pushes Tesla hard. Some say too hard but that's Elon, good and bad. And Tesla can't stand still. Apple is still major wildcard with their Project Titan. And the Chinese are not resting. They built the Gigafactory 3 for Tesla in less than a year. So in order to beat the Chinese, Tesla has to work like a madman and Elon has to keep pushing Tesla to innovate faster.

 

[ultimatebob]

Racing is physics. Model S Plaid has 3 motors. Eventually, the fastest cars will have 4 motors, one on each wheel. And probably cold air rocket thrusters like the SpaceX Roadster. No one has designed a car like that before. So there is no blueprint to go by other than physics. Not with sophisticated electronics and computer that can independently control each rocket thrusters and power and aid the car during the initial launch and during turns. Tesla is building and testing these cars. Tesla will fail, learn, and improve like they've always done.

Love or hate him, no auto CEO has the physics and science knowledge of Elon and he pushes Tesla hard. Some say too hard but that's Elon, good and bad. And Tesla can't stand still. Apple is still major wildcard with their Project Titan. And the Chinese are not resting. They built the Gigafactory 3 for Tesla in less than a year. So in order to beat the Chinese, Tesla has to work like a madman and Elon has to keep pushing Tesla to innovate faster.

I think that the point that Zinfamous is trying to make is that it's a lot easier to make a car go fast in a straight line than it is to make it hug a turn around a race track. I'd imagine that Tesla will probably get it right with the new Roadster, but the Model S in its current form is lacking in precision handling department.

But, hey... I'd love to see Tesla field their own race team (In Formula E, perhaps?) and get some real racing experience.

 

[ponyo]

I think that the point that Zinfamous is trying to make is that it's a lot easier to make a car go fast in a straight line than it is to make it hug a turn around a race track. I'd imagine that Tesla will probably get it right with the new Roadster, but the Model S in its current form is lacking in precision handling department.

But, hey... I'd love to see Tesla field their own race team (In Formula E, perhaps?) and get some real racing experience.

Did you somehow miss the track record the Model S just set at Laguna Seca and Nürburgring? Laguna Seca is very technical track with lots of curves. Nürburgring is very long and fast track and Porsche's backyard test track. Model S just beat everyone on both tracks. 2012 Model S chassis can't be that bad if Tesla just embarrassed Porsche who spent 5 years and $6 billion to develop Taycan as "Tesla killer." Taycan was developed as track car and can't even beat a car that was developed as highway cruiser with seating for 7. Race car vs big ass 7 passenger sedan. And Tesla Model S is faster on the street and the track. So who's lacking?

 

[ultimatebob]

Something tells me that there isn't much left of the original Model S in that track car other than the original body, ponyo. They probably stripped it bare to lighten the load and replaced the original suspension with a race suspension. I wouldn't be surprised if they put in a smaller and lighter battery pack as well, which is something you'll probably not see in the production model.

 

[zinfamous]

Did you somehow miss the track record the Model S just set at Laguna Seca and Nürburgring? Laguna Seca is very technical track with lots of curves. Nürburgring is very long and fast track and Porsche's backyard test track. Model S just beat everyone on both tracks. 2012 Model S chassis can't be that bad if Tesla just embarrassed Porsche who spent 5 years and $6 billion to develop Taycan as "Tesla killer." Taycan was developed as track car and can't even beat a car that was developed as highway cruiser with seating for 7. Race car vs big ass 7 passenger sedan. And Tesla Model S is faster on the street and the track. So who's lacking?

That's great, but we still don't know what goes into these racing testers that makes them perform well, and for how long. I want to see it. You think my criticism is anti-Tesla, but it isn't. I'm just not thoroughly invested in them succeeding; I just want them to.

My reservations have a lot to do with their manufacturing issues: insane panel gaps across their line, shitty paint application...things like that which speak to some flaws in producing a consistent inventory. I only mention that because once they start manufacturing some racers so that they can get some official times, they need to tighten up their manufacturing a bit so that they have far less error tolerance when building a couple hundred of these things. ...and they aren't making a lot of cars right now in comparison to the other manufacturers, so it's a bit concerning that these issues seem very common with them. Again, something I think/hope that they are going to solve.

 

[zinfamous]

Something tells me that there isn't much left of the original Model S in that track car other than the original body, ponyo. They probably stripped it bare to lighten the load and replaced the original suspension with a race suspension. I wouldn't be surprised if they put in a smaller and lighter battery pack as well, which is something you'll probably not see in the production model.

Right, it probably has one seat, a roll cage, overhauled suspension, proper race tires (looks like Pilot Sport S?) and lighter wheels, many things. Granted, they don't have to deal with all the ICE components, like transmission, exhaust...but I feel like it gives them some room to meddle with a custom cooling solution for the battery?

Good tinkering, and the results will be cool to see, but they still need to make 100 of them, I think, for it to be registered with other competition cars. (now that I think about it--that might just be for certain classes of cars that register for races like LeMans...)

 

[ponyo]

Something tells me that there isn't much left of the original Model S in that track car other than the original body, ponyo. They probably stripped it bare to lighten the load and replaced the original suspension with a race suspension. I wouldn't be surprised if they put in a smaller and lighter battery pack as well, which is something you'll probably not see in the production model.

And when the production model is even faster, you're going to claim Tesla is cheating somehow. Doesn't matter because production model will be faster. As Elon said, it's a start.

That's great, but we still don't know what goes into these racing testers that makes them perform well, and for how long. I want to see it. You think my criticism is anti-Tesla, but it isn't. I'm just not thoroughly invested in them succeeding; I just want them to.

My reservations have a lot to do with their manufacturing issues: insane panel gaps across their line, shitty paint application...things like that which speak to some flaws in producing a consistent inventory. I only mention that because once they start manufacturing some racers so that they can get some official times, they need to tighten up their manufacturing a bit so that they have far less error tolerance when building a couple hundred of these things. ...and they aren't making a lot of cars right now in comparison to the other manufacturers, so it's a bit concerning that these issues seem very common with them. Again, something I think/hope that they are going to solve.

Instead of good job Tesla and the ball is now in Porsche's court, we're going to resort to talking about material build quality and panel gaps. Because wrapped cow leather and mahogany wood are about the only thing Porsche and Germans will be able to claim they're better at if they don't wake up. This is a wake up call to all legacy automakers. Future is electric and Tesla is out to prove it.

Porsche might be better off just putting Porsche emblem on Rimac cars if they want to compete with Tesla. Or poach some Tesla and Rimac engineers. Because if Porsche had asked Tesla about putting 2 speed gearbox, Tesla would've told them not to do it and just put another motor instead. Tesla experimented with 2 speed gearbox on the original Roadster before deciding it wasn't worth the headache. But how else will Porsche dealers make money on electric car service if it didn't have something extra to break?

 

[zinfamous]

And when the production model is even faster, you're going to claim Tesla is cheating somehow. Doesn't matter because production model will be faster. As Elon said, it's a start.


Instead of good job Tesla and the ball is now in Porsche's court, we're going to resort to talking about material build quality and panel gaps. Because wrapped cow leather and mahogany wood are about the only thing Porsche and Germans will be able to claim they're better at if they don't wake up. This is a wake up call to all legacy automakers. Future is electric and Tesla is out to prove it.

Porsche might be better off just putting Porsche emblem on Rimac cars if they want to compete with Tesla. Or poach some Tesla and Rimac engineers. Because if Porsche had asked Tesla about putting 2 speed gearbox, Tesla would've told them not to do it and just put another motor instead. Tesla experimented with 2 speed gearbox on the original Roadster before deciding it wasn't worth the headache. But how else will Porsche dealers make money on electric car service if it didn't have something extra to break?

yeah, you didn't really understand the comment, at all. I feel like your commenting on Tesla on these forums is always about 5 minutes away from trying to sell us some Herbalife.

Never once did I not give Tesla props. I said they need to get out there and prove it, then manufacture their proven cars to a competitive, consistent level. They haven't been designing racecars...ever, but you are convinced they will do it overnight because Elon apparently shits unicorn dust.

I hope they do it. I want to see them do it. I'm just waiting for them to actually do it. Say they beat Porsche with this one car that they purpose-build for that, specifically, and they never make another one that can do it? Are they going to provide their later production versions of the P 100D to the track, or just stick with what they do this week? That's revealing whatever happens.

 

[ultimatebob]

Yeah, don't forget that the better their car gets at handling the Nürburgring, the worse it will get for daily driving. You can only stiffen up the suspension so much before the ride quality goes all the crap. I remember that one of the Grand Tour presenters (probably Captain Slow) hated to test drive cars that were developed using the Nürburgring as a test track for that reason.

Sure, they have adjustable suspensions now that can mitigate some of that, but even the mighty Elon Musk can't break the laws of physics.

 

[zinfamous]

Yeah, don't forget that the better their car gets at handling the Nürburgring, the worse it will get for daily driving. You can only stiffen up the suspension so much before the ride quality goes all the crap. I remember that one of the Grand Tour presenters (probably Captain Slow) hated to test drive cars that were developed using the Nürburgring as a test track for that reason.

Sure, they have adjustable suspensions now that can mitigate some of that, but even the mighty Elon Musk can't break the laws of physics.

Yeah, that's his big bugaboo about modern design and marketing in cars: "tested on the Nurburgring!" ...then they made him test the Toyota Grmnninnnann, and it was fun watching him do his presenter hat, and talk about how awesome it was...the very thing that he hated.

It's a tradeoff for sure, but I think it's a good badge for a company to wear as part of your portfolio. I think the customers that are going to know what that is about and want such a car, aren't going to have an issue with the compromised daily driving characteristics.

There's always a compromise...and in fact it is allowing such compromises that is what separates some of the battery performance from Tesla and the Porsche's and Jaguars and the others looking to compete with them. Tesla is working on the mass market, daily driver component, and there are limitations to battery heat and use that will effect range and lifetime performance. Tesla has generally lived with a less-tolerant minimum for default, but of course some models allow you to easter-egg your way into "Ludicrous Speed" after several warnings and much information about what you are doing, which is essentially turning off those nannies that will compromise the battery in order to access that advertised performance. ...which I think is the right way to go about it.

I think it's a great thing for Tesla to do and it's a proper response to the critics. They haven't really been in a position to challenge these criticisms until now, especially with the Roadster and all of those known problems--the actual real ones, not "the fake ones" (which really weren't fake problems...just exaggerated at times).

 

[ponyo]

yeah, you didn't really understand the comment, at all. I feel like your commenting on Tesla on these forums is always about 5 minutes away from trying to sell us some Herbalife.

Never once did I not give Tesla props. I said they need to get out there and prove it, then manufacture their proven cars to a competitive, consistent level. They haven't been designing racecars...ever, but you are convinced they will do it overnight because Elon apparently shits unicorn dust.

I hope they do it. I want to see them do it. I'm just waiting for them to actually do it. Say they beat Porsche with this one car that they purpose-build for that, specifically, and they never make another one that can do it? Are they going to provide their later production versions of the P 100D to the track, or just stick with what they do this week? That's revealing whatever happens.

Oh I'm not going to stop until you sell your AMD shares and buy some TSLA stock.

Tesla will definitely produce Model S Plaid. Elon says next Oct/Nov but add Elon time and by Spring 2021, I expect Model S Plaid deliveries followed by Model X Plaid and Roadster Plaid. Tesla didn't build Model S Plaid just to beat Porsche. They definitely wanted to put smackdown on Taycan but their real goal was to test the drive train for the new Roadster. The tri Model 3 motor setup is what Tesla is going to use on the new Roadster. Future is motor at each wheel for electric torque vectoring.

 

[zinfamous]

Oh I'm not going to stop until you sell your AMD shares and buy some TSLA stock.

Tesla will definitely produce Model S Plaid. Elon says next Oct/Nov but add Elon time and by Spring 2021, I expect Model S Plaid deliveries followed by Model X Plaid and Roadster Plaid. Tesla didn't build Model S Plaid just to beat Porsche. They definitely wanted to put smackdown on Taycan but their real goal was to test the drive train for the new Roadster. The tri Model 3 motor setup is what Tesla is going to use on the new Roadster. Future is motor at each wheel for electric torque vectoring.

already sold half my AMD shares--made 780% profit on those.

It's a tiny pittance of shares though--not enough for you to ever consider being in the game for. I could buy like....10 shares of Tesla now, lol.

 

[bigi]

For excellent TSLA trading forum, I invite everyone to read/join

Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the 2019 Investors' Roundtable


HERE

Tons of information about technology, market manipulation, FUD, trading, short sellers, etc.

 

[JEDI]

But, hey... I'd love to see Tesla field their own race team (In Formula E, perhaps?) and get some real racing experience.

thought all the major racing circuits require dino-fuel engines?

 

[Commodus]

thought all the major racing circuits require dino-fuel engines?

Formula E is all-electric!

 

[ponyo]

One of Tesla Model S Plaid broke down on the track so Tesla is done with testing for now. But Tesla claims they will return next month for more testing after making some improvements. They claim 7:05 time might be possible next month.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1174740201421377537

 

[JEDI]

Formula E is all-electric!

wait.. theres an all electric racing?

"Racing takes place on temporary city-centre street circuits which are 1.9 to 3.4 km (1.2 to 2.1 mi) long"

so it's like a Grand Prix instead of a boring race track oval?

all teams use the same Spark racing car?
cool! so it's all driver skill that wins.

surprised Tesla isn't somehow a part of this already??

 

[Commodus]

wait.. theres an all electric racing?

"Racing takes place on temporary city-centre street circuits which are 1.9 to 3.4 km (1.2 to 2.1 mi) long"

so it's like a Grand Prix instead of a boring race track oval?

all teams use the same Spark racing car?
cool! so it's all driver skill that wins.

surprised Tesla isn't somehow a part of this already??

They used to use the same car, but they've since been allowed to design their own (within certain guidelines, of course). It's not as big as F1, but it has some serious drivers attached along with teams like Audi, Jaguar and Mercedes.

 

[ponyo]

Model 3 earns the highest safety rating from Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. (Top Safety Pick+).
https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/tesla/model-3-4-door-sedan/2019

 

[Brovane]

Something tells me that there isn't much left of the original Model S in that track car other than the original body, ponyo. They probably stripped it bare to lighten the load and replaced the original suspension with a race suspension. I wouldn't be surprised if they put in a smaller and lighter battery pack as well, which is something you'll probably not see in the production model.

The "Plaid" Model S probably used a Model 3 battery pack out of the Performance Model 3. It has been rumored for a while that Tesla will eventually switch the S and X over to the 2170 battery modules which is what the 3 uses. The battery technology in the 2170 are overall better performance over anything else that any other manufacturer has in production. A lot of the performance for EV's comes down to drive train (Electric Motors and Pack) and Tesla is at least 5+ years more advanced than anything else in production.

 

[ponyo]

I love how all the skeptics are convinced the Model S Plaid was totally stripped bare inside and Taycan wasn't. From the pictures I've seen, it's the opposite and it's Taycan that was stripped inside and bare. I think the Taycan only had drivers seat installed and no passenger seats or door trims.

On the other hand, here's Model S Plaid on Nürburgring.

You can see it has both driver and passenger seats.

And full driver side door trim

And full passenger side door trim too.

Interior looks pretty stock to me. And even if it wasn't, stripped interior is not the reason Model S Plaid was more than 20 seconds faster than the Taycan.

 

[ponyo]

Tesla May Soon Have a Battery That Can Last a Million Miles

Tesla Model 3 motor is supposed to last like 1 million miles while the current battery is rated for 300,000 - 500,000 miles. I remember Musk saying earlier this year at Tesla Autonomy Day that Tesla would soon have battery that lasts 1 million miles for the Model 3. I remember being skeptical and surprised at his claim. But Tesla filed patent couple weeks ago and we'll probably see the million miles battery in Tesla cars in the next couple of years. The million miles battery should pair nicely with autonomous Robotaxis on Tesla Network.