32 bit is no longer valid

[JustaGeek]

Originally posted by: wordsworm

Then we will see if there is *any practical difference in gaming* between 32bis OS and 64-bis OS on absolutely identical 4GB rigs. All my HW is new, 64-bit and i will just compare two basic "skeleton" systems, 32bit vs. 64bit. - the *only variable* being the OS.

Why stop there? Put 8GB on both of them before conducting your tests. Is there any software that gauges stuttering and other annoying things like that? Isn't the real purpose of your quest to determine which platform is high end?

Now you are being totally unreasonable.

Why would you need to put 8GB of RAM, even on the 64-bit machine for gaming...?

All the 32-bit games are designed with the 2GB upper application limit, and if any game today needs more, it is because of the system processes, and it can all be accomodated within the 3GB.

That's why you can't even install the 64-bit Vista with more than 3GB of RAM today.

Now you're gonna tell me about the patch, correct...? :roll:

Stop crying wolf...

 

[JustaGeek]

Originally posted by: Mem

Originally posted by: JustaGeek
Once you boot into XP, the System Restore "takes over" the computer, including the Vista Drive/Partition, and wipes out the Restore Points created by Vista.

Once you boot back into Vista, all the Restore Points are gone, and ex. you can't use the "Last configuration that worked" option in case of failure, because.... there is no record!

I just create a new point, but again, it is not very safe. Sure, it is possible to "Repair Install" Vista, but it is more hassle than "going back" with the System Restore.

More here

I never had to use a restore point in Vista or XP in 7 years,so I think you don't have a lot to worry about.

I create a Restore Point every time I install a new application.

Many times it was the ONLY way to get rid of an unwanted driver or a program.

Every time you install an update from Microsoft, the restore point is created automatically.

I do need it. So do you - but perhaps you've been lucky for the past 7 years.

I will try to make the Vista drive "offline' in the XP registry, as MS recommends.

Thanks.

 

[Mem]

Originally posted by: JustaGeek

Originally posted by: Mem

Originally posted by: JustaGeek
Once you boot into XP, the System Restore "takes over" the computer, including the Vista Drive/Partition, and wipes out the Restore Points created by Vista.

Once you boot back into Vista, all the Restore Points are gone, and ex. you can't use the "Last configuration that worked" option in case of failure, because.... there is no record!

I just create a new point, but again, it is not very safe. Sure, it is possible to "Repair Install" Vista, but it is more hassle than "going back" with the System Restore.

More here

I never had to use a restore point in Vista or XP in 7 years,so I think you don't have a lot to worry about.

I create a Restore Point every time I install a new application.

Many times it was the ONLY way to get rid of an unwanted driver or a program.

Every time you install an update from Microsoft, the restore point is created automatically.

I do need it. So do you - but perhaps you've been lucky for the past 7 years.

I will try to make the Vista drive "offline' in the XP registry, as MS recommends.

Thanks.

My CCleaner and Reg Cleaner 4.3 never let me down when I do my registry/file cleaning in XP/Vista x64,never had any issues with uninstalling programs either .

As to being lucky I doubt it,my games see a lot of updates(especially online ones) just done a 175mb game update while I've been typing this,I also update my drivers often too(as soon as new official ones are out).

 

[JustaGeek]

Originally posted by: nullpointerus

..........................................

[An early adopter? Sort of...although I think XP 64-bit users were the real early adopters. We're just late-comers who gripe about some software incompatibilities; that hardly qualifies as "pioneering" in my book. The real issue here is that some third parties need to get off their respective duffs and release compatible software.

Again, very impressive and informative post.

To me, widespread adoption means availability at Best Buy, Circuit City and other B&M stores.

32-bit Vista has been adopted immediately after the February 2007 release.

I have yet to find a store selling an OEM machine with the 64-bit Vista pre-installed...

 

[nullpointerus]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: nullpointerus

Originally posted by: apoppin

...

- to everyone else with an open mind ... lets *test* 64-bit vs. 32-for gaming ... we will be the first forum to have anything definitive on the subject[/b]

I would volunteer (since we have similar hardware ATM), but unfortunately I do not have that many "modern" games. The closest I have are F.E.A.R., Hg:L, and NFS:C -- not exactly the largest, most stressful games. Of those, only Hg:L has both 32-bit and 64-bit installations, and I don't know of any benchmarks for Hg:L.

Cool idea, though. :thumbsup:

let's just DO it ... i will be glad to exchange some games [trade and trade back] with you ... and there are many established benchmarks available on the 'net: Crysis/Prey/HL2/PK/D3/Q4/STALKER/LP:EC/CoJ/etc. --*All* i would need is the 64-bit Vista DVD [i am sure my key would work for the 30 day trial] and to setup Vista64-bit up on a clean partition.

Technically, a product key is not required to install Vista. (That's one difference from XP.) Since you already have a valid license, I suppose it would be legal/ethical. Not according to strict interpretation of the EULA, but EULAs have questionable legality anyway.

Further concidence: I have a 40 GB partition sitting useless from earlier troubleshooting.

But I'm not quite sure what you were asking me to do. Are you offering to trade games for my Vista 64-bit DVD? Or trade games for games so that we can benchmark both? I doubt I would have any games that would interest you, and certainly nothing I would want to part with on a permanent basis. But I will run anything I can download off the net if you want.

Then we will see if there is *any practical difference in gaming* between 32bis OS and 64-bis OS on absolutely identical 4GB rigs. All my HW is new, 64-bit and i will just compare two basic "skeleton" systems, 32bit vs. 64bit. - the *only variable* being the OS.

OK...now it sounds like you want to test the 64-bit OS yourself...?

Not that I would mind...if you are offering to do all the work.

i am sick of being lectured by clueless HW elitists with nothing but "how it feels" to back them up ... lets lay this crap to rest. We will be the *first* forum on the Internet to publish results on this!
[again]

Heh, it sounds like you will be e-mailing keys about web hosting for some nice graphs.

 

[JustaGeek]

Originally posted by: Mem
My CCleaner and Reg Cleaner 4.3 never let me down when I do my registry/file cleaning in XP/Vista x64,never had any issues with uninstalling programs either .

As to being lucky I doubt it,my games see a lot of updates(especially online ones) just done a 175mb game update while I've been typing this,I also update my drivers often too(as soon as new official ones are out).

Again, I am not disputing your needs, so please don't dispute mine

And questioning the importance of System Restore sounds little ignorant to me (no offense...)

I use the system restore, and treat it as an integral part of my system's security.

And you've never had to use "The last configuration that worked"...?

If you did, and were successful, it is because the "Restore Point" saved your "bum"

 

[JustaGeek]

Originally posted by: apoppin

why stop there? ... why not 16GB of RAM ?

:laugh: LMAO

Yeah, let's go for 128GB, let's load this baby right up! :laugh:

 

[Mem]

Originally posted by: JustaGeek

Originally posted by: Mem
My CCleaner and Reg Cleaner 4.3 never let me down when I do my registry/file cleaning in XP/Vista x64,never had any issues with uninstalling programs either .

As to being lucky I doubt it,my games see a lot of updates(especially online ones) just done a 175mb game update while I've been typing this,I also update my drivers often too(as soon as new official ones are out).

Again, I am not disputing your needs, so please don't dispute mine

And questioning the importance of System restore sound little ignorant to me (no offense...)

I use the system restore, and treat it as an integral part of my system's security.

And you've never had to use "The last configuration that worked"...?

If you did, and were successful, it is because the "Restore Point" saved your "bum"

I think you got the wrong end of the stick from my post ,I do have System Restore enabled (sure its handy if you need to use it).

Again, I am not disputing your needs, so please don't dispute mine

Did I dispute your needs ,please show me where I did?

And you've never had to use "The last configuration that worked"...?

Nope ,never needed too so far.

Don't take this the wrong way but I build my own PCs and install all the software myself so know my way around a PC pretty well.I have had my fair share of hardware failue over the years ie...AMD CPU,printers ,monitors,PSU exploding,Crucial ram going faulty etc...but nothing that I have caused.

I have also been lucky with BIOS flashing(done this dozens of times with no problems ,touchwood ).

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: nullpointerus

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: nullpointerus

Originally posted by: apoppin

...

- to everyone else with an open mind ... lets *test* 64-bit vs. 32-for gaming ... we will be the first forum to have anything definitive on the subject[/b]

I would volunteer (since we have similar hardware ATM), but unfortunately I do not have that many "modern" games. The closest I have are F.E.A.R., Hg:L, and NFS:C -- not exactly the largest, most stressful games. Of those, only Hg:L has both 32-bit and 64-bit installations, and I don't know of any benchmarks for Hg:L.

Cool idea, though. :thumbsup:

let's just DO it ... i will be glad to exchange some games [trade and trade back] with you ... and there are many established benchmarks available on the 'net: Crysis/Prey/HL2/PK/D3/Q4/STALKER/LP:EC/CoJ/etc. --*All* i would need is the 64-bit Vista DVD [i am sure my key would work for the 30 day trial] and to setup Vista64-bit up on a clean partition.

Technically, a product key is not required to install Vista. (That's one difference from XP.) Since you already have a valid license, I suppose it would be legal/ethical. Not according to strict interpretation of the EULA, but EULAs have questionable legality anyway.

Yes, i might play a bit fast-and-loose with this one BUT MS does offer a 30-day trial ... i will not keep 64-bit on my paritition after the test UNLESS it offers practical advantages for me in games ... in THAT case, i will just BUY it

Further concidence: I have a 40 GB partition sitting useless from earlier troubleshooting.

But I'm not quite sure what you were asking me to do. Are you offering to trade games for my Vista 64-bit DVD? Or trade games for games so that we can benchmark both? I doubt I would have any games that would interest you, and certainly nothing I would want to part with on a permanent basis. But I will run anything I can download off the net if you want.

No i will "give" any games to you that you need ... but please give them back when you are done with them; i will do the same thing with your Vista 64-bit DVD ... use it ... return it ... unscratched and insured. There are at least a dozen benchmarks on the 'net ... we probably won't need to trade unless there is something "special" that needs testing. We can also make custom benchmarks.

*coincidence* ... i still have 4 partitions - 2 unused - on my 500GB RAID - from my last benchmarking Vista32 vs. XP32 and 2900xt vs. GTS-640 just ready to set up new installations of Vista 32 and Vista 64

Then we will see if there is *any practical difference in gaming* between 32bis OS and 64-bis OS on absolutely identical 4GB rigs. All my HW is new, 64-bit and i will just compare two basic "skeleton" systems, 32bit vs. 64bit. - the *only variable* being the OS.

OK...now it sounds like you want to test the 64-bit OS yourself...?

Not that I would mind...if you are offering to do all the work.

By myself? - No!, i prefer to do it with you or someone else so we can *validate* each other's results. Keys and i did this last Summer and our results were totally consistent with each other

i am sick of being lectured by clueless HW elitists with nothing but "how it feels" to back them up ... lets lay this crap to rest. We will be the *first* forum on the Internet to publish results on this!
[again]

Heh, it sounds like you will be e-mailing keys about web hosting for some nice graphs.

let's do it and anyone else that wants to join in ... *all* i need is a Vista64-bit DVD and some TIME and HARD WORK

... well, lots of time ... at least

 

[JustaGeek]

Originally posted by: Mem

And you've never had to use "The last configuration that worked"...?

Nope ,never needed too so far.

Don't take this the wrong way but I build my own PCs and install all the software myself so know my way around a PC pretty well.I have had my fair share of hardware failue over the years ie...AMD CPU,printers ,monitors,PSU exploding,Crucial ram going faulty etc...but nothing that I have caused.

I have also been lucky with BIOS flashing(done this dozens of times with no problems ,touchwood ).

See, we are not talking about how successful YOU are, and how lucky YOU have been not to have failures with your builds.

We all have our own ways, and if you had a problem with the CCleaner, and I told you to use the System Restore instead, you would say "No, I want my CCleaner!"

And I... want... my... System Restore!

And please, don't discard such important features like "The last config that worked" or the System Restore in general.

Again, the fact that YOU never had to use it means absolutely nothing to the rest of the "computing world".

 

[Mem]

Originally posted by: JustaGeek

Originally posted by: Mem

And you've never had to use "The last configuration that worked"...?

Nope ,never needed too so far.

Don't take this the wrong way but I build my own PCs and install all the software myself so know my way around a PC pretty well.I have had my fair share of hardware failue over the years ie...AMD CPU,printers ,monitors,PSU exploding,Crucial ram going faulty etc...but nothing that I have caused.

I have also been lucky with BIOS flashing(done this dozens of times with no problems ,touchwood ).

See, we are not talking about how successful YOU are, and how lucky YOU have been not to have failures with your builds.

We all have our own ways, and if you had a problem with the CCleaner, and I told you to use the System Restore instead, you would say "No, I want my CCleaner!"

And I... want... my... System Restore!

And please, don't discard such important features like "The last config that worked" or the System Restore in general.

Again, the fact that YOU never had to use it means absolutely nothing to the rest of the "computing world".

Again you keep getting the wrong end of the stick,exploding PSU or faulty CPU/ram is not going to be fixed by System Restore or last known config so that's why I never needed to use it.The PSU exploding incident happened when I was gaming in Vista x64(back in April),I was lucky enough to install a new PSU and it booted right up again with no problems.

I have already said System Restore etc has a use and I have mine enabled(never know when I need to use it) etc. but so far been lucky in that department,drivers I find straight forward on installing/uninstalling etc.. same goes for software in general ie I've had no issues so far that required me to use System restore or last known config,I also keep all important data backed up.

We all have our own ways, and if you had a problem with the CCleaner, and I told you to use the System Restore instead, you would say "No, I want my CCleaner!"

I would use what options are available ,seems like we are going off topic from main thread again.
Can we drop this subject now its going in wrong direction.

None of my posts were remarks against you,hope you realize that,if anything I was trying to help you a few posts up.
Btw I always find it a bit ironic that software I normally have no issues with,but hardware wise(I always buy quality hardware) always lets me down in the end,you don't want to see my full hardware failure list.

Getting back on topic,I think down the road the importance of Vista x64 gaming and 4GB plus will become a more critical factor.

 

[nullpointerus]

apoppin:

It sounds like we're good to go. :thumbsup:

I will do a clean installation. What should I download first? It should be games with built-in benchmarks (so I can start collecting some results while you wait for the disc to arrive). We should also get some input from chizow as to which games are likely to show benefits on a 64-bit OS in terms of fps, load times, and/or noticable stuttering during gameplay.

I'm checking the Vista Alternate Media page to see if I can order another 64-bit disc (for the cost of shipping) and maybe I will just eat the cost of that myself. See, there's slight cracking in the plastic in the center of the disc (but absolutely no damage to the part where the data is stored).

But...here is what happened on the order confirmation page:

Error

We?ve encountered an error while processing your request. Please contact customer support for more information.

Error Code: 1061

:Q

Well, it's up to you. I've had no errors related to the disc itself, and it's been through 30+ installations (mostly due to the incredible amount of testing I had to do to find and work around a stupid bug with the setup program for Microsoft's .NET 3.5 Framework).

What would be really funny (ironic) is if a mod finally came in and locked the thread just as we were preparing to post benchmark results.

 

[JustaGeek]

Originally posted by: Mem

.........................................................

We're all cool, Mem.

I understand where you're coming from, and I think you do understand my issues as well.

Peace out.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: nullpointerus
apoppin:

It sounds like we're good to go. :thumbsup:

I will do a clean installation. What should I download first? It should be games with built-in benchmarks (so I can start collecting some results while you wait for the disc to arrive). We should also get some input from chizow as to which games are likely to show benefits on a 64-bit OS in terms of fps, load times, and/or noticable stuttering during gameplay.

I'm checking the Vista Alternate Media page to see if I can order another 64-bit disc (for the cost of shipping) and maybe I will just eat the cost of that myself. See, there's slight cracking in the plastic in the center of the disc (but absolutely no damage to the part where the data is stored).

But...here is what happened on the order confirmation page:

Error

We?ve encountered an error while processing your request. Please contact customer support for more information.

Error Code: 1061

:Q

Well, it's up to you. I've had no errors related to the disc itself, and it's been through 30+ installations (mostly due to the incredible amount of testing I had to do to find and work around a stupid bug with the setup program for Microsoft's .NET 3.5 Framework).

What would be really funny (ironic) is if a mod finally came in and locked the thread just as we were preparing to post benchmark results.

not so fast
-or you might be doing this by yourself

i *need* to get a copy of Vista 64 from you first ... and since i am "part-time" expect at least a couple of weeks to have a final verdict ... two more weekends after getting the disk. i will - of course, do clean installs of both OSes and the necessary game benchmarks, drivers and tools - a "bare-bones gaming rig" with no HW or SW differences except for the OSes.

We also should get together in PMs, exchange email addresses and if you live in the USA, we can talk on my cellphone [i have 1,000 anytime minutes] or if you prefer, IM. i have some suggestions and ideas to go over with you and also where to get the benches.

As to a mod locking this thread, i think Keys is following it ... he and i did a very similar thing this last summer on our "in house 2900xt vs GTS640 shootout" ... i seriously doubt we are breaking any Eula for a short 'test- - after all i *will* buy it if there is a practical performance advantage and DELETE it if there is not within MS' 30 days 'activate it or lose it' period.
... and if there is a problem, i am certain there is a legal 'workaround' before we get to problems with anyone here. i think they like what we are doing as no other forum does this regularly *before* the HW sites think of it.

 

[nullpointerus]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: nullpointerus
apoppin:

It sounds like we're good to go. :thumbsup:

...

What would be really funny (ironic) is if a mod finally came in and locked the thread just as we were preparing to post benchmark results.

not so fast
-or you might be doing this by yourself

It's your idea; I had no intention of posting the numbers until you had yours.

The problem is the combination of defragmentation (which must be done before we can isolate stuttering issues) and media center recordings (which occur late at night, practically every night). I want time to download and install demos. And my college work has to be done on this machine, too. I'll make time if I must -- just a matter of convenience, really.

You can go ahead and create the thread/reserve some posts if you want.

Run with it!

i *need* to get a copy of Vista 64 from you first ... and since i am "part-time" expect at least a couple of weeks to have a final verdict ... two more weekends after getting the disk. i will - of course, do clean installs of both OSes and the necessary game benchmarks, drivers and tools - a "bare-bones gaming rig" with no HW or SW differences except for the OSes.

Same here.

We also should get together in PMs, exchange email addresses and if you live in the USA, we can talk on my cellphone [i have 1,000 anytime minutes].

No cellphones! I don't talk much...

LOL

...in person, I mean. You will get a PM soon.

As to a mod locking this thread, i think Keys is following it ... he and i did a very similar thing this last summer on our "in house 2900xt vs GTS640 shootout" ... i seriously doubt we are breaking any Eula for a short 'test- - after all i *will* buy it if there is a practical performance advantage and DELETE it if there is not within MS' 30 days 'activate it or lose it' period.
... and if there is a problem, i am certain there is a legal 'workaround' before we get to problems with anyone here.

Ah...I was referring to past experiences with moderators on other boards who remember to lock "active" threads (like this one) just after they become "constructive"; I was not referring to you, Keys, or to the product key at all.

I didn't mean to insinuate you were doing anything wrong.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: nullpointerus

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: nullpointerus
apoppin:

It sounds like we're good to go. :thumbsup:

...

What would be really funny (ironic) is if a mod finally came in and locked the thread just as we were preparing to post benchmark results.

not so fast
-or you might be doing this by yourself

It's your idea; I had no intention of posting the numbers until you had yours.

The problem is the combination of defragmentation (which must be done before we can isolate stuttering issues) and media center recordings (which occur late at night, practically every night). I want time to download and install demos. And my college work has to be done on this machine, too. I'll make time if I must -- just a matter of convenience, really.

You can go ahead and create the thread/reserve some posts if you want.

Run with it!

i *need* to get a copy of Vista 64 from you first ... and since i am "part-time" expect at least a couple of weeks to have a final verdict ... two more weekends after getting the disk. i will - of course, do clean installs of both OSes and the necessary game benchmarks, drivers and tools - a "bare-bones gaming rig" with no HW or SW differences except for the OSes.

Same here.

We also should get together in PMs, exchange email addresses and if you live in the USA, we can talk on my cellphone [i have 1,000 anytime minutes].

No cellphones! I don't talk much...

LOL

...in person, I mean. You will get a PM soon.

As to a mod locking this thread, i think Keys is following it ... he and i did a very similar thing this last summer on our "in house 2900xt vs GTS640 shootout" ... i seriously doubt we are breaking any Eula for a short 'test- - after all i *will* buy it if there is a practical performance advantage and DELETE it if there is not within MS' 30 days 'activate it or lose it' period.
... and if there is a problem, i am certain there is a legal 'workaround' before we get to problems with anyone here.

Ah...I was referring to past experiences with moderators on other boards who remember to lock "active" threads (like this one) just after they become "constructive"; I was not referring to you, Keys, or to the product key at all.

I didn't mean to insinuate you were doing anything wrong.

sounds good ... i guess we need to go to PMs . ... or perhaps IM ... forget my phone idea.
- i don't want to start the thread too early ... probably next week, when i get the OS. i have 2 identical partitions ready to go!

IF you install 2 separate partitions on your spare 40GB HD - 1 for 64-bit and another clean install for 32-bit - you can leave your rig to do all the regular chores on your regular HD without any interference - except when you are actually running the benchmarking.

For a student and a working guy, i expect a proper "review" will take a couple of weekends and some spare nights. It just means running a lot of benchmarks on one OS and noting the results and observations; rebooting and then running the same benchmarks again to compare. i think i had about 7 relatively new games last time and want to add a couple of more [including a DX10 benchmark for Hg:L - that'd have to be *custom*]. We can then compare our results with each other and post them.

We don't have to be fancy like Keys - although it IS nice with the charts and graphs - we can just post numbers ... we are only comparing *two variables* - 32 vs 64-bit. Two sets of numbers. nice! And there are a lot more variables than just FPS that i would like to test.


This thread can go to hell as far as i am concerned. There isn't enough fresh water to flush the FUD clean. A simple test and a new topic will do nicely. And we will see if 32-bit in a 4GB rig is "high end" ... or not.
--then you can expect articles and charts to follow *everywhere*
--i like being first

 

[JustaGeek]

You go guys!!! Glad the idea comes to fruition! :thumbsup:

BTW, the SuperAntiSpyware was giving me strange messages about the incompatibility in the Event Viewer, so it had to go...

But Quake 4, STALKER and CoH look absolutely amazing!

Ladies and gentlemen, I think we have a winner here!

Hope TurboTax works in 64-bit, but if Quicken does, Turbotax will (most likely) too.

The Microsoft fix with "Offline" drive doesn't work for me, so I guess I'll just abort logging-in to XP altogether. Who needs it anyway, huh...?

@apoppin and nullpointerus - can't wait for your results. You are like the pioneers of the new age of PC gaming!!!

OK, I 'll shut up now...

Good luck! :beer:

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: JustaGeek
You go guys!!! Glad the idea comes to fruition! :thumbsup:

BTW, the SuperAntiSpyware was giving me strange messages about the incompatibility in the Event Viewer, so it had to go...

But Quake 4, STALKER and CoH look absolutely amazing!

Ladies and gentlemen, I think we have a winner here!

Hope TurboTax works in 64-bit, but if Quicken does, Turbotax will (most likely) too.

The Microsoft fix with "Offline" drive doesn't work for me, so I guess I'll just abort logging-in to XP altogether. Who needs it anyway, huh...?

@apoppin and nullpointerus - can't wait for your results. You are like the pioneers of the new age of PC gaming!!!

OK, I 'll shut up now...

Good luck! :beer:

thank-you ... luck is always welcome!
- *good* luck

i found myself irritated a few times over the years here at things that were said or "assumed" as fact that were not. However, i was only motivated this year to do something about it as two things coincided at once with my rig's makeover - it IS nice to have a decent rig to use as a benchmarker. This Summer, there was much FUD about 2900xt being a fire-breathing dustbuster PoS and at the same time there was much FUD about Vista 32 being inferior to XP for gaming. So we found out the truth ourselves - 2900xt is roughly equivalent to GTS640 and Vista is not the slightest big inferior to XP. Others followed us with similar conclusions.

Well, we have a similar situation now and i want to find out for *myself* if 64-bit offers ME any advantage in a 4GB rig for gaming. All my internet research ultimately lead to silly arguments and opinion like this thread. Little fact and not enough info; even some tech sites are full of it and have misleading info. NO reviews.

As i said, we might as well be first.
-or else, someone will do it ... eventually.


Watch for an AT article by Derek Wilson ... shortly

 

[Mem]

BTW, the SuperAntiSpyware was giving me strange messages about the incompatibility in the Event Viewer, so it had to go...

That's weird,did you install the free version?....I never had any issues with SUPERAntiSpyware at all.

I'll check their forums for info.

Some info here.

Still checking.


Note: on free version

SUPERAntiSpyware Free Edition does not include real-time blocking or scheduled scanning.

.

FYI have same error info in event viewer,however it updates and manual scanning works fine,I'm going to try running as admin for the application and see if that gets rid of it(did not work).

 

[rchiu]

For those who claim 32 bit is not valid anymore, wonder if they can back it up with some number. The last time I checked, only Vista premium retail box comes in 32/64 bit version and every other retail version comes in 32 bit only. The only way to upgrade is to order the 64 bit DVD from MS. Even the next OS (Vienna) will come in 32 and 64 bit version. Let's face it, 32 bit is here to stay. It doesn't matter if 64 bit is far superior than 32 bit. If only a few geeks uses it, Anandtech will be doing their readers a disservice by not running benchmark with 32 bit OS. Lots of geeks think the only viable product is the latest and the best technology, but in reality, the product most people uses are middle of the road/mature product. Anandtech should continue to focus on the version/products that most reader uses, and if resources are available, additional version can be benchmarked/reviewed.

 

[wordsworm]

For those who claim 32 bit is not valid anymore, wonder if they can back it up with some number.

Did you read the original post? 32 bit performance evaluations of video cards with 4 GB of RAM cannot be held as accurate since 32 bit can only handle 4GB of total RAM, including the video card.

Most people have 512MB of RAM. Slowly, that's moving upwards to 1GB. So, if we were to focus on what most people have, then Anandtech would have to start doing tests with that amount of RAM. Also, throw out any motherboard and video card over $75. That's what the average is. In fact, a lot of folks don't even have video cards, so why not just toss that out altogether and stick to integrated platforms?

Look, if you're going to test to see what the latest and best technology is, you need to use the OS that can actually make use of all the hardware that's in the machine rather than shaving some off because of its inherent limitation.

Now, you *can* buy a computer with Vista 64 installed. Most don't because most computers aren't high end enough to make use of it. Vista Basic is the most common flavour out there, and its limitation is 1GB.

Average consumers don't come to sites like Anandtech. They don't want to find out what the latest power supplies are the best. They will let the salesman tell what is 'best.' They want something cheap. So, let's stop arguing such foolishness. If websites such as these are going to test high end computers, then they need to use the OS that can run the thing without compromise.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: wordsworm

For those who claim 32 bit is not valid anymore, wonder if they can back it up with some number.

Did you read the original post? 32 bit performance evaluations of video cards with 4 GB of RAM cannot be held as accurate since 32 bit can only handle 4GB of total RAM, including the video card.

Most people have 512MB of RAM. Slowly, that's moving upwards to 1GB. So, if we were to focus on what most people have, then Anandtech would have to start doing tests with that amount of RAM. Also, throw out any motherboard and video card over $75. That's what the average is. In fact, a lot of folks don't even have video cards, so why not just toss that out altogether and stick to integrated platforms?

Look, if you're going to test to see what the latest and best technology is, you need to use the OS that can actually make use of all the hardware that's in the machine rather than shaving some off because of its inherent limitation.

Now, you *can* buy a computer with Vista 64 installed. Most don't because most computers aren't high end enough to make use of it. Vista Basic is the most common flavour out there, and its limitation is 1GB.

Average consumers don't come to sites like Anandtech. They don't want to find out what the latest power supplies are the best. They will let the salesman tell what is 'best.' They want something cheap. So, let's stop arguing such foolishness. If websites such as these are going to test high end computers, then they need to use the OS that can run the thing without compromise.

First of all, you *can't* back it up with any numbers so you try flawed logic. Secondly, average consumers DO come to AT and ATF. There were a couple of guys here yesterday looking for advice that won't build their own rigs.

Finally ...

Yeah we read it and many of us just don't agree with you. We think that 32-bit is just as "high-end" and just as Valid as 64-bit for benchmarking games. We think that Devs are writing 32-bit games with the 2-GB barrier in mind and that it makes *no practical difference* whether the video card uses 512MB as part of the "addressable RAM" or not. We think that MS' hotfix resolved the issue - for now.

i am SO certain you are wrong that we are going to *test* it.

nullpointerous and i are both going to install brand new Vista 32 and Vista 64 on separate partitions and benchmark and review the performance differences in 32-bit gaming.

Look for a new thread this weekend. Until then, perhaps you can take your own advice and stop arguing such foolishness.

 

[wordsworm]

MS cannot hot fix 32 bit to make it take more RAM unless it resorts to PAE. PAE is a workaround that isn't for a gaming rig.

As for not agreeing with me, it has nothing to do with me. I didn't know. I wanted to find out. So, I sent an email to nVidia, and they confirmed my suspicion in a letter that I published in this thread almost a month ago. If nVidia isn't a good enough source of technical information for you, then that's your problem.

As far as which OS is better, it's a matter of simple math. 64 bit gives access to more. 32 bit has hit its limit. It can't get better. In order to get better, you must move to 64 bit. Apple has done this with Leopard. Whether or not you accept this is irrelevant. The truth doesn't wait for you to believe it.

Average consumers don't want to know about computers. The average person doesn't know what Intel or AMD means, and they don't want to know. They set a purpose and a budget, at best. The rest is Greek.

32 bit benchmarking makes sense for systems with 2GB or less, but not for 4GB and more since it's essentially a hobbled system. It's like a dog with a collar that's gotten too small and it's getting choked. This is a fact, not an opinion. If you argue against nVidia, you're arguing against people who know an awful lot more than we do. They're experts. Their experts are likely among the best in the world, and you don't think that's good enough?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: wordsworm
MS cannot hot fix 32 bit to make it take more RAM unless it resorts to PAE. PAE is a workaround that isn't for a gaming rig.

As for not agreeing with me, it has nothing to do with me. I didn't know. I wanted to find out. So, I sent an email to nVidia, and they confirmed my suspicion in a letter that I published in this thread almost a month ago. If nVidia isn't a good enough source of technical information for you, then that's your problem.

As far as which OS is better, it's a matter of simple math. 64 bit gives access to more. 32 bit has hit its limit. It can't get better. In order to get better, you must move to 64 bit. Apple has done this with Leopard. Whether or not you accept this is irrelevant. The truth doesn't wait for you to believe it.

Average consumers don't want to know about computers. The average person doesn't know what Intel or AMD means, and they don't want to know. They set a purpose and a budget, at best. The rest is Greek.

32 bit benchmarking makes sense for systems with 2GB or less, but not for 4GB and more since it's essentially a hobbled system. It's like a dog with a collar that's gotten too small and it's getting choked. This is a fact, not an opinion. If you argue against nVidia, you're arguing against people who know an awful lot more than we do. They're experts. Their experts are likely among the best in the world, and you don't think that's good enough?

nvidia didn't confirm anything except in your own mind. i don't take the word of a third-level techie at nvidia Customer care. i trust AT more than i trust nvidia and even the very latest reviews use 32-bit vista - even when comparing GPUs with 256MB to 1024MB vRAM:

http://en.expreview.com/?p=159

IF you are basing your entire premise on your low-level nvidia techie's response at CS, then you are sadly gullible ...
... in your email you wrongly claimed that a 2nd GPU in SLi would use more RAM than a single card and they wrongly agreed with you and they ALSO [wrongly] said they were "working with MS to resolve it"
- it *cannot* be fixed ... that is the stupidest response from Customer Care possible and it is full of factual errors.
:roll:


*We* are going to TEST 64bit vs 32-bit in at least 2 4GB gaming rigs right here - in-house ... can't you handle a proper review?
--Would you rather we not test it ?


An in-depth analysis will (1) either confirm what you think or it (2) will completely destroy your topic's premise. We will find out if 32-bit benchmarking makes sense - or not - for a 4GB system.
-Then we won't have to listen to FUD anymore about 32-bit ... from *anyone*

 

[JustaGeek]

Talk about beating the dead horse, huh...? :roll: