30,000 Union Workers have taken the Ford Buyout

[Old Hippie]

Yahoo for unions, miscalculating the global economic impacts on labor for over 30 years!!!! It's nice to watch people blindly resisting change until they are simply out of jobs completely. Do you want to discuss the number of companies that the unions have driven into the ground or out of the country in the last few decades? I guess that pot does have an affect on the hippy mind.

If you can predict what tomorrow will bring, my hat's off to you. I'm sorry, but Unions were created with the every-day worker in mind. If employers would have recognized lifes realities, I wouldn't have a quibble.
Unions have become a "Life Unto Their Own" and that's good and bad.
What really irritates me is someone with no background and knowledge gives Unions a bad rap....kinda like YOU.

 

[bctbct]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Old Hippie

Hurray for unions!

I'm glad to hear your company puts your best interests at heart.:roll:
Or, Don't you work?

Yahoo for unions, miscalculating the global economic impacts on labor for over 30 years!!!! It's nice to watch people blindly resisting change until they are simply out of jobs completely. Do you want to discuss the number of companies that the unions have driven into the ground or out of the country in the last few decades? I guess that pot does have an affect on the hippy mind.

They didnt misjudge the world economy. They were throw into a no win situation. Everyone seems to think that costs are too high, how about foreign cost is too low?

Nobody did anything to protect this sector, they allow foreign makers to pump cheaper products onto the market and forced the decline of the American Auto industry.

Kind of like your job as soon as your boss decides it feasible to have what you do done cheaper.

Using your wisdom this would have been an employment ad from 1976

Wanted
Auto Workers
Lousy working conditions
Frequent mandatory OT
Good pay and benefits that will decline over the next 30 years until the cheap foreign competition puts us out of business and you will be out on your ass.

I think the average worker in China makes like .08 cents per HOUR, nobody competes with that.

 

[mrrman]

its a sinking ship

 

[waggy]

About time they did something right! to bad its 10 years late. i really hope they can turn it around.

the US really needs the big 3. even though most here would not admit it.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Old Hippie

Hurray for unions!

I'm glad to hear your company puts your best interests at heart.:roll:
Or, Don't you work?

Yahoo for unions, miscalculating the global economic impacts on labor for over 30 years!!!! It's nice to watch people blindly resisting change until they are simply out of jobs completely. Do you want to discuss the number of companies that the unions have driven into the ground or out of the country in the last few decades? I guess that pot does have an affect on the hippy mind.

They didnt misjudge the world economy. They were throw into a no win situation. Everyone seems to think that costs are too high, how about foreign cost is too low?

Nobody did anything to protect this sector, they allow foreign makers to pump cheaper products onto the market and forced the decline of the American Auto industry.

Kind of like your job as soon as your boss decides it feasible to have what you do done cheaper.

Using your wisdom this would have been an employment ad from 1976

Wanted
Auto Workers
Lousy working conditions
Frequent mandatory OT
Good pay and benefits that will decline over the next 30 years until the cheap foreign competition puts us out of business and you will be out on your ass.

I think the average worker in China makes like .08 cents per HOUR, nobody competes with that.

Auto Workers in the US are VASTLY overpaid in terms of wages and compensation packages.

And last I checked not to many cars from China are sold in the US.

What is killing the Big 3 is primarily Japan, and to a lesser extent Korea. You'd have a point on Korea their wages are much cheaper. But not Japan. But you also have to take into account most Toyotas are assembled in the US. Most Toyotas are as american as most Big 3 automobiles.

 

[bctbct]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Old Hippie

Hurray for unions!

I'm glad to hear your company puts your best interests at heart.:roll:
Or, Don't you work?

Yahoo for unions, miscalculating the global economic impacts on labor for over 30 years!!!! It's nice to watch people blindly resisting change until they are simply out of jobs completely. Do you want to discuss the number of companies that the unions have driven into the ground or out of the country in the last few decades? I guess that pot does have an affect on the hippy mind.

They didnt misjudge the world economy. They were throw into a no win situation. Everyone seems to think that costs are too high, how about foreign cost is too low?

Nobody did anything to protect this sector, they allow foreign makers to pump cheaper products onto the market and forced the decline of the American Auto industry.

Kind of like your job as soon as your boss decides it feasible to have what you do done cheaper.

Using your wisdom this would have been an employment ad from 1976

Wanted
Auto Workers
Lousy working conditions
Frequent mandatory OT
Good pay and benefits that will decline over the next 30 years until the cheap foreign competition puts us out of business and you will be out on your ass.

I think the average worker in China makes like .08 cents per HOUR, nobody competes with that.

Auto Workers in the US are VASTLY overpaid in terms of wages and compensation packages.

OK I am open minded, based on what?

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Old Hippie

Hurray for unions!

I'm glad to hear your company puts your best interests at heart.:roll:
Or, Don't you work?

Yahoo for unions, miscalculating the global economic impacts on labor for over 30 years!!!! It's nice to watch people blindly resisting change until they are simply out of jobs completely. Do you want to discuss the number of companies that the unions have driven into the ground or out of the country in the last few decades? I guess that pot does have an affect on the hippy mind.

They didnt misjudge the world economy. They were throw into a no win situation. Everyone seems to think that costs are too high, how about foreign cost is too low?

Nobody did anything to protect this sector, they allow foreign makers to pump cheaper products onto the market and forced the decline of the American Auto industry.

Kind of like your job as soon as your boss decides it feasible to have what you do done cheaper.

Using your wisdom this would have been an employment ad from 1976

Wanted
Auto Workers
Lousy working conditions
Frequent mandatory OT
Good pay and benefits that will decline over the next 30 years until the cheap foreign competition puts us out of business and you will be out on your ass.

I think the average worker in China makes like .08 cents per HOUR, nobody competes with that.

Auto Workers in the US are VASTLY overpaid in terms of wages and compensation packages.

OK I am open minded, based on what?

Based on the fact it is unskilled labor, and most auto works make more than skilled/educated labor.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: Squisher
Where to start?

Although I see daily the disadvantages of unions when it comes to under-performing employees I cannot say that that is the greatest downfall to the company. I would say that departmentalization and short sighted thinking by management are a much bigger impact.

Company officers pay gone up something like 200 fold since the early '70's. The average pay of an American dwarfs the pay of a Japanese rival whose company is outperforming the Americans by 200 fold.

Okay decrease exec pay? Know what? Wouldnt do a damn thing to save the Big 3. Only thing they can do is get rid of employees. Their healthcare cost is what is sinking them(and the US).

 

[bctbct]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Auto Workers in the US are VASTLY overpaid in terms of wages and compensation packages.[/quote]


OK I am open minded, based on what?
[/quote]

Based on the fact is unskill labor, and most auto works make more than skilled/educated labor.[/quote]

How much does an auto worker make per hour if he gets a job tommorrow?

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Auto Workers in the US are VASTLY overpaid in terms of wages and compensation packages.

OK I am open minded, based on what?
[/quote]

Based on the fact is unskill labor, and most auto works make more than skilled/educated labor.[/quote]

How much does an auto worker make per hour if he gets a job tommorrow?
[/quote]

Its in the mid-$20s. The automobile co's would like to cut starting pay into the mid teens. But really its the healthcare their older and retired workers thats killing them.

Compare this to nurses, which are skilled labor, and not to mention a shortage growing by the year. Avg nurses start in the low to mid $20s, and even after 20 years of nursing are only up into the high $20's/low $30s. Their benefits are typically 6% 401K matching, instead of a pension, and costly healthcare instead of great healthcare policies that last until you croak.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Squisher
Where to start?

Although I see daily the disadvantages of unions when it comes to under-performing employees I cannot say that that is the greatest downfall to the company. I would say that departmentalization and short sighted thinking by management are a much bigger impact.

Company officers pay gone up something like 200 fold since the early '70's. The average pay of an American dwarfs the pay of a Japanese rival whose company is outperforming the Americans by 200 fold.

Okay decrease exec pay? Know what? Wouldnt do a damn thing to save the Big 3. Only thing they can do is get rid of employees. Their healthcare cost is what is sinking them(and the US).

yeap. they had far to much labor cost they really did not need. but with the unions they just could not fire or lay them off.

this is a step in the right direction. it is not the only thing they need to do. they really need to make a car that is a hit. change how people veiw them (even though the cars are good people still have a view of them from the 70's).

i really really hope they can turn this around.

 

[bctbct]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Wreckem


How much does an auto worker make per hour if he gets a job tommorrow?

Its in the mid-$20s. The automobile co's would like to cut starting pay into the mid teens. But really its the healthcare their older and retired workers thats killing them.

I am pretty sure they start in the 17/18 range plus benefits.

Legacy costs is what is killing them. Not anyones fault, so why blame the worker.

Take away the foreign competition and they would be profitting today.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Wreckem


How much does an auto worker make per hour if he gets a job tommorrow?

Its in the mid-$20s. The automobile co's would like to cut starting pay into the mid teens. But really its the healthcare their older and retired workers thats killing them.

I am pretty sure they start in the 17/18 range plus benefits.

Legacy costs is what is killing them. Not anyones fault, so why blame the worker.

Take away the foreign competition and they would be profitting today.

Look at Ford they would still be sinking. Their worker healtecare contracts are costing them ~$4billion this year, and that number rises $800mil-$1bil a year.

Protectionist policies have NEVER worked. So you whole point about foriegn competition is moot.

If the Big 3 could produce quality products they might not be losing market share. Hell some Korean cars are of better quality than American, which is pretty sad.

 

[Squisher]

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Wreckem


How much does an auto worker make per hour if he gets a job tommorrow?

Its in the mid-$20s. The automobile co's would like to cut starting pay into the mid teens. But really its the healthcare their older and retired workers thats killing them.

I am pretty sure they start in the 17/18 range plus benefits.

Legacy costs is what is killing them. Not anyones fault, so why blame the worker.

Take away the foreign competition and they would be profitting today.

You have to remember there haven't been any new hires since the late nineties, but most of the car companies have new hire second tier that starts out about $5 less per hour, but works its way up to the prevailing wage after 5 years.

The domestics are banking on being able to introduce a third tier that never comes up to the wages and benefits they have now. It's much easier to ask people to give up the wages of people that don't even work for the company yet. 2008 will be a very interesting year for the domestics.

One of these days I'll have to post about all the sordid dealings that lead up to my union breaking ground on what all the domestics will be seeing in 2008. The details of which I don't even know about.

 

[Squisher]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Wreckem


How much does an auto worker make per hour if he gets a job tommorrow?

Its in the mid-$20s. The automobile co's would like to cut starting pay into the mid teens. But really its the healthcare their older and retired workers thats killing them.

I am pretty sure they start in the 17/18 range plus benefits.

Legacy costs is what is killing them. Not anyones fault, so why blame the worker.

Take away the foreign competition and they would be profitting today.

Look at Ford they would still be sinking. Their worker healtecare contracts are costing them ~$4billion this year, and that number rises $800mil-$1bil a year.

Protectionist policies have NEVER worked. So you whole point about foriegn competition is moot.

If the Big 3 could produce quality products they might not be losing market share. Hell some Korean cars are of better quality than American, which is pretty sad.

Many American vehicles closely rival all of their competition in quality, but it'll be a while before people change their mind about the domestics.

 

[bctbct]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Wreckem


How much does an auto worker make per hour if he gets a job tommorrow?

Its in the mid-$20s. The automobile co's would like to cut starting pay into the mid teens. But really its the healthcare their older and retired workers thats killing them.

I am pretty sure they start in the 17/18 range plus benefits.

Legacy costs is what is killing them. Not anyones fault, so why blame the worker.

Take away the foreign competition and they would be profitting today.

Look at Ford they would still be sinking. Their worker healtecare contracts are costing them ~$4billion this year, and that number rises $800mil-$1bil a year.

Protectionist policies have NEVER worked. So you whole point about foriegn competition is moot.

If the Big 3 could produce quality products they might not be losing market share. Hell some Korean cars are of better quality than American, which is pretty sad.

Protectonist policies are everywhere. If the State Department opened the borders tommorrow, none of us would have jobs in 1 year.

Moot, I think not. If it costs GM 20k to make a car they need to sell it for 22k. They cant sell it for 22k because Hyundai sells the same thing for 19K.

To compete auto workers need to cut their salaries to 13 per hour and lose half their benefits.

These are good paying jobs with benefits, not good jobs. Major manufacturing plant enviornments suck to say the least.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Old Hippie

Hurray for unions!

I'm glad to hear your company puts your best interests at heart.:roll:
Or, Don't you work?

Yahoo for unions, miscalculating the global economic impacts on labor for over 30 years!!!! It's nice to watch people blindly resisting change until they are simply out of jobs completely. Do you want to discuss the number of companies that the unions have driven into the ground or out of the country in the last few decades? I guess that pot does have an affect on the hippy mind.

They didnt misjudge the world economy. They were throw into a no win situation. Everyone seems to think that costs are too high, how about foreign cost is too low?

Nobody did anything to protect this sector, they allow foreign makers to pump cheaper products onto the market and forced the decline of the American Auto industry.

Kind of like your job as soon as your boss decides it feasible to have what you do done cheaper.

Using your wisdom this would have been an employment ad from 1976

Wanted
Auto Workers
Lousy working conditions
Frequent mandatory OT
Good pay and benefits that will decline over the next 30 years until the cheap foreign competition puts us out of business and you will be out on your ass.

I think the average worker in China makes like .08 cents per HOUR, nobody competes with that.

lol you're such a tool

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Wreckem


How much does an auto worker make per hour if he gets a job tommorrow?

Its in the mid-$20s. The automobile co's would like to cut starting pay into the mid teens. But really its the healthcare their older and retired workers thats killing them.

I am pretty sure they start in the 17/18 range plus benefits.

Legacy costs is what is killing them. Not anyones fault, so why blame the worker.

Take away the foreign competition and they would be profitting today.

Look at Ford they would still be sinking. Their worker healtecare contracts are costing them ~$4billion this year, and that number rises $800mil-$1bil a year.

Protectionist policies have NEVER worked. So you whole point about foriegn competition is moot.

If the Big 3 could produce quality products they might not be losing market share. Hell some Korean cars are of better quality than American, which is pretty sad.

Protectonist policies are everywhere. If the State Department opened the borders tommorrow, none of us would have jobs in 1 year.

Moot, I think not. If it costs GM 20k to make a car they need to sell it for 22k. They cant sell it for 22k because Hyundai sells the same thing for 19K.

To compete auto workers need to cut their salaries to 13 per hour and lose half their benefits.

These are good paying jobs with benefits, not good jobs. Major manufacturing plant enviornments suck to say the least.

Uh thats not an economic protectionist policy. That involves a lot more than economics.

Tariffs, import qoutas, and even trade embargos DO NOT work.

 

[bctbct]

Originally posted by: Squisher

Many American vehicles closely rival all of their competition in quality, but it'll be a while before people change their mind about the domestics.

I totally agree. In fact japaneese quality is slipping. US auto makers need to upgrade their interiors to get a better share of the market.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: Old Hippie

Hurray for unions!

I'm glad to hear your company puts your best interests at heart.:roll:
Or, Don't you work?

I'd rather work for a company looking out for their own interests that's in business rather than one who is coerced by unions and driven to the brink of bankruptcy (Ford and GM, anyone?)

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Wreckem


How much does an auto worker make per hour if he gets a job tommorrow?

Its in the mid-$20s. The automobile co's would like to cut starting pay into the mid teens. But really its the healthcare their older and retired workers thats killing them.

I am pretty sure they start in the 17/18 range plus benefits.

Legacy costs is what is killing them. Not anyones fault, so why blame the worker.

Take away the foreign competition and they would be profitting today.

Look at Ford they would still be sinking. Their worker healtecare contracts are costing them ~$4billion this year, and that number rises $800mil-$1bil a year.

Protectionist policies have NEVER worked. So you whole point about foriegn competition is moot.

If the Big 3 could produce quality products they might not be losing market share. Hell some Korean cars are of better quality than American, which is pretty sad.

Protectonist policies are everywhere. If the State Department opened the borders tommorrow, none of us would have jobs in 1 year.

Moot, I think not. If it costs GM 20k to make a car they need to sell it for 22k. They cant sell it for 22k because Hyundai sells the same thing for 19K.

To compete auto workers need to cut their salaries to 13 per hour and lose half their benefits.

These are good paying jobs with benefits, not good jobs. Major manufacturing plant enviornments suck to say the least.

Hyundi isnt the primary problem. The primary problem is Toyota and Honda, and Toyota and Honda arent cheaper than american made cars.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Squisher

Many American vehicles closely rival all of their competition in quality, but it'll be a while before people change their mind about the domestics.

I totally agree. In fact japaneese quality is slipping. US auto makers need to upgrade their interiors to get a better share of the market.

Im sorry but I dont see the slippage of quality on Honda or Toyota? Maybe you are thinking Hyundi and Kia are Japanese.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: brxndxn
I blame the absolutely insane amounts American companies pay their CEOs and officers...

I think GM officers all got $20million+ bonuses for 'staying on board' a company they are responsible for ruining. How the fvck does that 'maximize shareholder equity?'

I refuse to believe any ONE person at a company is worth more than 400 individual employees... unless the 400 individual employees are completely unskilled.

True, they make more than they're worth, but they are a drop in a bucket compared to the actual workers. Ford pays it's upper management barely anything in comparison to the workers. They are going to lose billions this year, so an extra $50 mil on upper management is nothing really.

 

[NL5]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Old Hippie

Hurray for unions!

I'm glad to hear your company puts your best interests at heart.:roll:
Or, Don't you work?

Yahoo for unions, miscalculating the global economic impacts on labor for over 30 years!!!! It's nice to watch people blindly resisting change until they are simply out of jobs completely. Do you want to discuss the number of companies that the unions have driven into the ground or out of the country in the last few decades? I guess that pot does have an affect on the hippy mind.

They didnt misjudge the world economy. They were throw into a no win situation. Everyone seems to think that costs are too high, how about foreign cost is too low?

Nobody did anything to protect this sector, they allow foreign makers to pump cheaper products onto the market and forced the decline of the American Auto industry.

Kind of like your job as soon as your boss decides it feasible to have what you do done cheaper.

Using your wisdom this would have been an employment ad from 1976

Wanted
Auto Workers
Lousy working conditions
Frequent mandatory OT
Good pay and benefits that will decline over the next 30 years until the cheap foreign competition puts us out of business and you will be out on your ass.

I think the average worker in China makes like .08 cents per HOUR, nobody competes with that.

Auto Workers in the US are VASTLY overpaid in terms of wages and compensation packages.

And last I checked not to many cars from China are sold in the US.

What is killing the Big 3 is primarily Japan, and to a lesser extent Korea. You'd have a point on Korea their wages are much cheaper. But not Japan. But you also have to take into account most Toyotas are assembled in the US. Most Toyotas are as american as most Big 3 automobiles.

So, Toyota pays their people the same as the Big 3, can sell BETTER cars for substantially LESS, makes a much bigger profit, and gives their employees better working conditions. But, the big 3 is failing due to the unions? Hmmmmmm. Sounds more like SEVERE mis-management. GM pays Wagonneer 400 million dollars to get taken to the cleaners by Toyota - money well spent, no? How much does the CEO of Toyota make?

 

[Cattlegod]

Originally posted by: NL5

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Old Hippie

Hurray for unions!

I'm glad to hear your company puts your best interests at heart.:roll:
Or, Don't you work?

Yahoo for unions, miscalculating the global economic impacts on labor for over 30 years!!!! It's nice to watch people blindly resisting change until they are simply out of jobs completely. Do you want to discuss the number of companies that the unions have driven into the ground or out of the country in the last few decades? I guess that pot does have an affect on the hippy mind.

So, Toyota pays their people the same as the Big 3, can sell BETTER cars for substantially LESS, makes a much bigger profit, and gives their employees better working conditions. But, the big 3 is failing due to the unions? Hmmmmmm. Sounds more like SEVERE mis-management. GM pays Wagonneer 400 million dollars to get taken to the cleaners by Toyota - money well spent, no? How much does the CEO of Toyota make?

They didnt misjudge the world economy. They were throw into a no win situation. Everyone seems to think that costs are too high, how about foreign cost is too low?

Nobody did anything to protect this sector, they allow foreign makers to pump cheaper products onto the market and forced the decline of the American Auto industry.

Kind of like your job as soon as your boss decides it feasible to have what you do done cheaper.

Using your wisdom this would have been an employment ad from 1976

Wanted
Auto Workers
Lousy working conditions
Frequent mandatory OT
Good pay and benefits that will decline over the next 30 years until the cheap foreign competition puts us out of business and you will be out on your ass.

I think the average worker in China makes like .08 cents per HOUR, nobody competes with that.

Auto Workers in the US are VASTLY overpaid in terms of wages and compensation packages.

And last I checked not to many cars from China are sold in the US.

What is killing the Big 3 is primarily Japan, and to a lesser extent Korea. You'd have a point on Korea their wages are much cheaper. But not Japan. But you also have to take into account most Toyotas are assembled in the US. Most Toyotas are as american as most Big 3 automobiles.

That is false. Most Toyota's are not as american as the Big 3. All of the engineering that is done on those Toyota's is done in Japan, not USA.