mindless1
Diamond Member
- Aug 11, 2001
- 8,798
- 1,781
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They're worth at least $4, to that extent it was a good deal. Remaining question was whether everyone was aware these are not necessary for a quiet system and that choosing these (or other LQ fans) does have a drawback. Once someone knows that, if they'd still rather spend $4 on these, more power to them, it is their system and their $.
First, the deal is not dead (at least when I checked it). Multiple item discount is mentioned at the top of the page, and when you add to card and change quantities it appears there as well. The page itself shows 300+ fans in stock as of today within the last couple hours.
If I misunderstood your question and it was BRAND related, as in, why didn't they use the same brand. Well thats because the nexus 120mm 12v (and by extension the yate loon 120mm) has a reputation for being one of the quietest availible in that category and size, whereas the panaflo 80mm 12v (some models) have the same reputation in that size and category.
Its also quite true that almost all fans are fairly quiet at lower voltages. Lowering the voltage reduces the noise because it slows the fan. But just as one wouldn't claim that they were all the same level of loudness at 12v, you can't really claim that they are all the same level of noise at 5 or 6 volts. I'll agree that for MOST people, at that voltage, they could care less about the differance and might not even be able to tell. They would all probably be quiet enough for the average person at a lower voltage. However some fans ARE quieter than others at lower voltages. And for some people who are anal about noise, this makes a differance.
You are probably not so picky about noise as to go picking out one particular size in one partiuclar model in one particular brand, and ordering a large enough sample to go cherry picking for the absolute quietest fan at a desired voltage; you yourself mentioned that you have used quiet systems for years without picking out specific make/model.
But some are. I'm not one of those to go all insane about it and try and build a one fan system, or totally passive system. Heck I even saw some posts on slashdot about some guys who even move either thier entire computer system into a separate room for zero noise (they just use long keyboard, mouse, and monitor cords, ugh I can't image the quality degradation from that), or they move thier cd and hdd drives into other rooms (usually using USB connections). A few years back I saw a project from a guy that did watercooling and went and buried a slender tank 6' underground in his front yard with a rented backho so he could get a water system cooler that didn't add any pump or fan noise inside his computer room. Some people build entire boxes to enclose components or computer cases to reduce noise (at a high cost of additional heat from reducing airflow). All that is going too far IMHO. At least for me. I also probably wont go buying various grommets and vibration reducing kits for each fan.
But SOME people ARE that anal. Most of them probably CAN tell a noise differance between various models of fans at low voltage. I'm sure that a minority of them are probably somewhat hypochondriac in the sense that they only imagine they hear a differance, they are probably influenced by things they read on web sites like SPCR.
However if a professional test setup can detect differant noise levels in fans at lower voltage levels, odds are that in general using those brands with lower noise amounts in lower voltages in a case would produce an overall lower level of noise. Its simple logic. There will be other factors of course from things such as back pressure, or airflow noises, or vibration, or the case silencing some noise, etc etc. But if you put lower level noise fans into a system, you should be able to reduce the overall level of noise in a case in general.
But I do want to reduce the current level of noise. I'm taking some steps to do so. One is install a fan controller (this probably will have the greatest effect on overall noise levels, just switching out the fans and running them at 12v probalby isn't going to make nearly as much differance as reducing the voltage). Two is to order these quiet fans from this deal. and use them in conjunction with the fan controller. Three would be potentially to order a thermalright xp-120 cooler and mount one of these fans on it as well.
I'm not sure why you claim that its premature or not valid to say that these fans (or the nexus ones) are potentially quieter in systems at lower voltages than others at the same low voltage.
Are you arguing that all fans are virtually the same noise level at lower voltages and shouldn't make much of a differance? I'm fairly sure that benchmarks can be found to show dB differances at lower voltages.
Are you arguing that once the fans are in a computer system, inside a case, in a real life situation (as opposed to the fans sitting on a test bench) it may not make much of a differance anyway? Logically if you fill your case with all high noise fans, you should hear a higher noise level from it than if you filled your case with all low noise fans, ceteris paribus.
Further, if you had all lower noise low voltage fans, the overall case noise should be decreased than if you had all higher noise low voltage fans ceteris paribus.
I see things in your message that could be interpreted either way (or even both), so maybe you can clarify.
Yeah except I wasn't the one that brought up the distinction in the first place. You brought it up as a question (see the question mark in your quote) about why would they choose that one instead of the 120mm quiet one. I was answering your question. They used it instead of the 120mm nexus because of size constraints.Originally posted by: mindless1
Originally posted by: Devistater
Its a shuttle system thats too small for the 120mm fans. So he used a quiet 80mm fan. And in the 80mm category the panaflo is one of the best choices for quiet, especialy at low voltages (it also moves a decent amount of air for a 80mm)
You're making an arbitrary distinction here, since 80 x 25 mm Yate Loon fans with same construciton are very common. Again, this idea about "this Yate Loon being quiet" is only true if throttled back enough, and likewise other fans can also be throttled back.
If I misunderstood your question and it was BRAND related, as in, why didn't they use the same brand. Well thats because the nexus 120mm 12v (and by extension the yate loon 120mm) has a reputation for being one of the quietest availible in that category and size, whereas the panaflo 80mm 12v (some models) have the same reputation in that size and category.
Its true that you can get somewhat of a random sampling (which is one reason I ordered 10 of them) with many fans in terms of the quietest possible. Thats why some people choose the nexus for a 120mm fan, they are apparently more cherry picked (in addition to being lower RPM) than the normal yate loon fans. Its also true that many will need a burn in period to tell which is quietest, so thats one thing I'll be doing, running the fans for a while to make sure I pick the quietest ones. And yeah, clicking can be a problem too, but with 10 fans I should get enough good ones for my use. I'll probably end up using the "rejects" in other systems, but my personal system I dont mind spending a little time on it, I've never done cherry picking with fans before but I figure why not, they are cheap enough.
Its also quite true that almost all fans are fairly quiet at lower voltages. Lowering the voltage reduces the noise because it slows the fan. But just as one wouldn't claim that they were all the same level of loudness at 12v, you can't really claim that they are all the same level of noise at 5 or 6 volts. I'll agree that for MOST people, at that voltage, they could care less about the differance and might not even be able to tell. They would all probably be quiet enough for the average person at a lower voltage. However some fans ARE quieter than others at lower voltages. And for some people who are anal about noise, this makes a differance.
You are probably not so picky about noise as to go picking out one particular size in one partiuclar model in one particular brand, and ordering a large enough sample to go cherry picking for the absolute quietest fan at a desired voltage; you yourself mentioned that you have used quiet systems for years without picking out specific make/model.
But some are. I'm not one of those to go all insane about it and try and build a one fan system, or totally passive system. Heck I even saw some posts on slashdot about some guys who even move either thier entire computer system into a separate room for zero noise (they just use long keyboard, mouse, and monitor cords, ugh I can't image the quality degradation from that), or they move thier cd and hdd drives into other rooms (usually using USB connections). A few years back I saw a project from a guy that did watercooling and went and buried a slender tank 6' underground in his front yard with a rented backho so he could get a water system cooler that didn't add any pump or fan noise inside his computer room. Some people build entire boxes to enclose components or computer cases to reduce noise (at a high cost of additional heat from reducing airflow). All that is going too far IMHO. At least for me. I also probably wont go buying various grommets and vibration reducing kits for each fan.
But SOME people ARE that anal. Most of them probably CAN tell a noise differance between various models of fans at low voltage. I'm sure that a minority of them are probably somewhat hypochondriac in the sense that they only imagine they hear a differance, they are probably influenced by things they read on web sites like SPCR.
However if a professional test setup can detect differant noise levels in fans at lower voltage levels, odds are that in general using those brands with lower noise amounts in lower voltages in a case would produce an overall lower level of noise. Its simple logic. There will be other factors of course from things such as back pressure, or airflow noises, or vibration, or the case silencing some noise, etc etc. But if you put lower level noise fans into a system, you should be able to reduce the overall level of noise in a case in general.
But I do want to reduce the current level of noise. I'm taking some steps to do so. One is install a fan controller (this probably will have the greatest effect on overall noise levels, just switching out the fans and running them at 12v probalby isn't going to make nearly as much differance as reducing the voltage). Two is to order these quiet fans from this deal. and use them in conjunction with the fan controller. Three would be potentially to order a thermalright xp-120 cooler and mount one of these fans on it as well.
I'm not sure why you claim that its premature or not valid to say that these fans (or the nexus ones) are potentially quieter in systems at lower voltages than others at the same low voltage.
Are you arguing that all fans are virtually the same noise level at lower voltages and shouldn't make much of a differance? I'm fairly sure that benchmarks can be found to show dB differances at lower voltages.
Are you arguing that once the fans are in a computer system, inside a case, in a real life situation (as opposed to the fans sitting on a test bench) it may not make much of a differance anyway? Logically if you fill your case with all high noise fans, you should hear a higher noise level from it than if you filled your case with all low noise fans, ceteris paribus.
Further, if you had all lower noise low voltage fans, the overall case noise should be decreased than if you had all higher noise low voltage fans ceteris paribus.
I see things in your message that could be interpreted either way (or even both), so maybe you can clarify.
got mine today, they all work fine. they shipped damn fast since i ordered Fri night.
The motor noise is alot less compared to my Enermax fans.
At 12v they push a fairly decent amount of air.
At 7v there's barely any noise at all, but the air it's pushing is more like a slight breeze.
Now I just need to replace the fans on my XP-90, and 7800GT to get my pc real quiet.
The motor noise is alot less compared to my Enermax fans.
At 12v they push a fairly decent amount of air.
At 7v there's barely any noise at all, but the air it's pushing is more like a slight breeze.
Now I just need to replace the fans on my XP-90, and 7800GT to get my pc real quiet
.
mindless1
Diamond Member
- Aug 11, 2001
- 8,798
- 1,781
- 136
Originally posted by: Spike
Originally posted by: mindless1
Originally posted by: Spike
In for 5. I figure they can't be any worse than the three pos panaflo's I have had die on me. Even if they don't last more than a few years thats fine by me as I will have 5
-spike
I would be interested to know how you managed to kill the Panaflos, have you dissected them? I've had, actually still have misc. gear with Panaflos over 12 years old still running fine.
Not sure on that. I had all three of them hooked to my cheap fan controller so that might have had something to do with it. Funny thing is I have a YS-Tech, another panaflo, and an enermax all hooked to that same controller and I have had no issues in a long time. Probably just bad luck for me...
You can probably salvage that fan controller, reduce or eliminate the chance of it killing fans by adding a capacitor across the output pins of each fan header. That may marginally increase the minimum voltage needed to spin-up fans but may make no difference in your use and is a lot better than killing fans.
WhoBeDaPlaya
Diamond Member
- Sep 15, 2000
- 7,415
- 404
- 126
Got them today, don't really like their cfm/noise ratio. I still like the 38mm fans better because I use them on radiators. Anyone interested in buying them off me?
mindless1
Diamond Member
- Aug 11, 2001
- 8,798
- 1,781
- 136
It was more of a something-for-you-to-ponder, question, not a I-want-to-know, question.
There is no "by extension". The nexus is quiet by virtue of it's low RPM. Yes you can reduce the YL's RPM towards the same end. So can it be done to some other fan. "Reputation" means little outside of certain circles. YL has a reputation for being low-end and Panaflo for being both quiet and fair quality.
It would be arbitrary and of little use to compare at 5 or 6V. Comparison should be at same RPM or flow rate.
Yes in concept there is truth to that, but the jump from this concept, to the conclusion that these fans are benefit towards that end, has been just that, a jump.
Actually I know from experience that there is no such thing as Cherry-picking unless you buy low quality fans. Among decent fans, you may get a few that are louder, but the rest are pretty normalized in fuction. With the low end you have most doing rather poorly and only a few being close to good operation. Yes I have been able to use many different makes and models, because I used to move cases of fans. The idea of cherry-picking cheap fans is like rummaging through a garbage bin to find something that is still usable. It is completely unnecesssary with better brands of (new) fans.
Your statement is simply invalid. A "professional test setup" is an arbitrary conclusion to make. Professional test setup doesn't simply mean a fancy set of equipment. On the contrary, the only gain with such equipment is usually a finer resolution than being reported, or even possible given the rest of the environment. Methodology matters more than what kind of fancy microphone was used. That is not to downplay to role of good equipment, rather that it is not in itself any indication of a professional test. It is simply invalid to conclude noise levels in a system will be same as noise levels in a dissimilar test scenario. I have already mentioned a few reasons that should've been obvious enough.
Fan balance and turbulence are two very important variables completely ignored in most tests. The resulting noise is typically far greater than a difference of single-digit db with a fan in an isolated free-air mounting or mat. There is simply no way to make a conclusion about noise i use from any evidence presented. That doesn't mean there aren't some differences, certainly there are some fans which cannot go to the lowest RPM ranges without a ticking sound from either the fan current or the result of a PWM controller's crude design, and/or the two in conjunction.
Yes that logic is a little TOO simple. One cannot ignore variables, call them constansts and conclude this. AT a given voltage, fan speed in a system WILL be different. Turbulence will too, not just of the fan but the blade design interaction with the mounting, the pressure gradient, the case-induced vibrations. Of all variables significant between two sleeve-bearing fans operating above their minimal threshold for smooth operation, the least significant is a minor noise difference in free air on an isolated mat.
That does have the potential to be effective. What it does not do is require use of these fans.
Did you read anything I wrote?
I'll repeat- do not think "same voltage". There is no point in thinking "same voltage" within the context of having a plan to use a fan controller, and further, with it being necessary to use one with these YL fans for this silent-operation goal. There should be one clear goal- Keep parts cool enough with acceptible noise. Acceptible may mean silent, or may not depending on desired lifespan of parts and limitations of other parts. For example, it makes little difference if your case fans produce 18db if your video card is making 34db. Even so, you seem to be arbitrarily jumping to conclusions as you don't even have a fan controller in the system yet, it wasn't close to being quiet.
I am claiming that most sleeve-bearing 25mm thick fans can provide similar airflow at similar noise levels, that the invalid free-air test can be ignored within these similar-enough fans and they must be tested in the actual environment to make a determination that either is ANY quieter in actual use, let alone that even if there is a difference, it is not at all hard to end up with a difference so minor it cannot be discriminated by a human ear.
Further, if you measure db value instead of db vs flow ratio, with both set to the needed flow rate, again the test cannot be applied to use. Further, depending on the fan blade shape (in free air), PLUS the mounting-induced turbulance (in use), noise levels of different fans cannot be determined by setting a mic in one specific spot, that there will necessarily need be a measurement of sound density at many points. Even a fan that is significantly louder in use could be measured quieter in a limited kind of free-air test. I don't claim that means the YL fans are louder, but rather, they cannot be concluded to be audibly quieter in use, in a real system, than most other sleeve-bearing 120mm/25mm/etc fans.
Not only that it may not matter, but the variables introduced in use can outweight those in the isolated test.
Why consider so-called "high noise" fans? Where do you propose to find these high-noise fans?
It seems you have to go out of your way to create a dissimilar situation to make it seem there is a difference. Except for some high-torque fan designs, the average wear-a-blindfold-and-grab-one-off-a-shelf, fan, will be very near same noise levels at same RPM and flow rate (in other words, same basic fan type and size) in free air. Seldom is a fan actually used in free air, and the difference is one that major fan manufacturers have been optimizing fans for, as long as there have been fans. Anyone can just create a propellar-looking-thing that doesn't actually have to do any work in any environment.
The clarification would be that there is no valid comparison except by considering all significant variables towards the actual application. If there were no need to do this there wouldn't be so many different fan designs on the market.
I pretty well summarized my feeling on this in a previous post, that it would be arbitrary to asssume these are quieter at any particular flow level your system may need and that they are a cheaper construction that has a lower expected lifespan unless relubed. If that is worth the $ savings it's your choice but if you can't achieve quiet with other fans, there is no reason to believe these are your magic bullet.
I've already posted too much, mostly because it seemed that some came to false conclusions about fundamemtals of fan-based cooling and kept repeating things without valid evidence. I don't expect agreement but that is beside the point, that it is not difficult to have a very quiet system and you need not have fans that are among the shortest-lived parts in the system to get there. This isn't a vague concept but rather a realization for anyone out there who has built quiet and long-lived systems. If you ever have a fan failure, and the system isn't old enough to be in a museum already, you could've avoided it.
Enough already, I"m sure you'll be glad that I"m done with the thread.
I just got my 10 fans today, woulda had it yesterday except...
Stupid UPS lied. They claimed they couldn't deliver it yesterday because no one was there to sign. BS, I was here at the exact time of 5:44pm they put down, I didn't take a shower or use the bathroom from 3pm to 7pm, so I was right next to the door the whole time. Plus there was no note on my door about a missed deliver. Not only that but when was the last time you saw a ups GROUND package needing a signature?
The final proof was the delivery today. No doorbell, and no asking for signature, it was just dropped off. I think the guy musta wanted to go home early yesterday and just marked all the packages as not home for signature. I'm going to call up UPS and lodge a complaint. Sure, I'm probably not going to get around to actually using the fans for a while, but its the principle of UPS lying.
BTW, none of this has to do with the company itself, tekgems was great and fast at shipping, good communication with email with tracking and order info, etc. The owner even put a business card in the box with his phone number on it. I should call and compliment him
This complaint is all about my local UPS delivery driver just so no one misunderstands.
Stupid UPS lied. They claimed they couldn't deliver it yesterday because no one was there to sign. BS, I was here at the exact time of 5:44pm they put down, I didn't take a shower or use the bathroom from 3pm to 7pm, so I was right next to the door the whole time. Plus there was no note on my door about a missed deliver. Not only that but when was the last time you saw a ups GROUND package needing a signature?
The final proof was the delivery today. No doorbell, and no asking for signature, it was just dropped off. I think the guy musta wanted to go home early yesterday and just marked all the packages as not home for signature. I'm going to call up UPS and lodge a complaint. Sure, I'm probably not going to get around to actually using the fans for a while, but its the principle of UPS lying.
BTW, none of this has to do with the company itself, tekgems was great and fast at shipping, good communication with email with tracking and order info, etc. The owner even put a business card in the box with his phone number on it. I should call and compliment him
This complaint is all about my local UPS delivery driver just so no one misunderstands.
Case and point of what mindless is trying to say. I can hear the bearing of these fans even with only 7v. My panaflo does not produce the bearing sound nor my adda fans.
anyone wanna test it out them self please buy it off me. I'll give big discount compare to website.
anyone wanna test it out them self please buy it off me. I'll give big discount compare to website.
Just to let a few users here know... I've used these for over 2 years now. My D12SL-12 models are still going strong, no noise from the bearings, little to no vibration.
They're good fans. Just like every other piece of hardware out there, bad apples pop up. I use one on my XP-120. If it fails, that's what temp throttling and other mobo preventative measures are for.
They're good fans. Just like every other piece of hardware out there, bad apples pop up. I use one on my XP-120. If it fails, that's what temp throttling and other mobo preventative measures are for.
moral of the story:
use smaller, deeper fans, mount them on soft mount points like rubber legs. run them at the right 'sound' for you, if 12v is good, leave it, if you need 7v then do it.
also note, though fan filters impede airflow, they also mute sound and are a good trade as dust in a case will impede airflow more than the filter.
another big issue with airflow is cables. tie back your cables and plan your airflow, a few 80mm case fans are easily enough, 120mm fans are not necessary especially shallow 25mm ones, get some 33mm fans and notice the difference in cf/m vs noise.
i have done this mod and it works well. make a PVC tube with a 90deg bend in the case, put the fan on on end and pad the inside of the bend and a few inches around it with some THIN foam. this will help duct the air to where you want it and muffle the fan noise. i do this fron the top rear panel into the CPU space pulling in fresh air from the right side of the tower.
use smaller, deeper fans, mount them on soft mount points like rubber legs. run them at the right 'sound' for you, if 12v is good, leave it, if you need 7v then do it.
also note, though fan filters impede airflow, they also mute sound and are a good trade as dust in a case will impede airflow more than the filter.
another big issue with airflow is cables. tie back your cables and plan your airflow, a few 80mm case fans are easily enough, 120mm fans are not necessary especially shallow 25mm ones, get some 33mm fans and notice the difference in cf/m vs noise.
i have done this mod and it works well. make a PVC tube with a 90deg bend in the case, put the fan on on end and pad the inside of the bend and a few inches around it with some THIN foam. this will help duct the air to where you want it and muffle the fan noise. i do this fron the top rear panel into the CPU space pulling in fresh air from the right side of the tower.
I dont like LED lights on my fans anyway
But yeah, you should expect strobe from a PWM fan controller. PWM means Pulse Width Modulation. Which means instead of a ------- 12v signal you get _-_-_- or __-__-__-
where its up and down and up and down. Thats what slows the fan down. Its not actually less voltage, its just pulsing the voltage. Effectivly the fan motor sees it as lowered voltage, but something like an LED could potentially be obvious that its pulsing.
I just like the idea of PWM because it doesn't waste electricity in heat with resistors. Also because you dont have to deal with weird potential issues if you use the 12v and 5v wires to create a 7 v signal, the 5v is acting as a virtual ground and in some situations that can be an issue.
But with LED lights, maybe its better to use something with resistors like a potentiometer. (aka a pot), then you wont get a strobe, although the LED will be dimmer of course with the lower voltage.
i know that i'm bringing up and older thread, but the deal is still on.
is this the official site? http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll
if so, i think i'll buy (even though most people bought items under $5...)
is this the official site? http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll
if so, i think i'll buy (even though most people bought items under $5...)
Spike
Diamond Member
- Aug 27, 2001
- 6,770
- 1
- 81
I replaced my rear Panaflo M1A 120x38 with one of these last night and it was a huge difference. I turned my YL up to the full 12v and it is way quieter than my panaflo was running at ~7v. I played BF 2 for a few hours and watched my temps, overall system temp appeard to be up ~1 degree but returned to "normal" after 15 min at idle.
This weekend I will replace my intake fan (120 x 25 enermax) with another YL and see how it's going. Now I just need to find a good replacement for my YS-Tech 80mm screamer on my HSF. Anyone know a good socket A cooler that does better than the Alpha PAL8045?
Definitly happy with this purchase, thanks op!
-spike
This weekend I will replace my intake fan (120 x 25 enermax) with another YL and see how it's going. Now I just need to find a good replacement for my YS-Tech 80mm screamer on my HSF. Anyone know a good socket A cooler that does better than the Alpha PAL8045?
Definitly happy with this purchase, thanks op!
-spike
I got my 5 blue led yate loons.... great stuff.... think i should replace my thermaltake fan with it? .... these are supposed to do 70cfm @ 32dba as opposed to 54 dba on the thermaltakes
they're still in stock...?
has everybody had a good experience from tekgems? i think i'm ready to order.
has everybody had a good experience from tekgems? i think i'm ready to order.
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