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$3.99 Yate Loon 120mm fans

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Not to refute what mindless1 in any way, because he is obviously educated on this topic. However, (there's always a 'however'), it is relevant to know there are many, testimonials on the satisfaction of these fans at SilencPCReview.com. And it should be noted that the members of that forum are very picky about their case fans.

Again, I am not disputing facts with mindless1. By all means, read everything he has written and take heed. But I thought it also important to point out that these fans seem to "pass muster" at one of the most intellectual PC hardware sites on the internet.

Perhaps these fans will crap out sooner than well-known fans such as Panaflo, Pabst, etc. But I might add one more bit of qualification here when referencing SilentPCReview. The members at the SPCR forum want the quietest fan possible and this is easily achieved with (almost) any fan when RPMs are lowered. The big difference lies in the behavior and "clicking" issues that fans exhibit at these lower RPMs. The D12SL-12 fan has been noted to be consistently "click-free" and operational at voltages in the range of 5 - 7 volts. Popular brands, including Panaflo, are noted to not consistently be "click-free" at the lower voltages. With Panaflo fans, it is somewhat more of a luck-of-the-draw situation in this respect. Additionally, many fans will not even start spinning in the low voltage range; the D12SL-12 appears to consistently be an exception.

But, in accordance with what mindless1 is saying (just to be sure that I am not picking a fight here), people at SPCR would rather have a quiet fan with a shorter life than a non-queit fan with an extended life.

Hope this clarifies the issue. If I have gotten something wrong here, you'll know it soon enough 🙂
 
It is true, some fans are clicky at lowest voltage. The ideal then is to avoid both the clicky ones and the lower quality ones.

When assessing a review 'site, question reviews. How many fans has reviewer replaced himself? We all know fans fail, so if reviewer has no experience in failure where is the measure to compare?

You can get a fair life out of these fans by relubing them. They will do fine if you do that. Some people don't want to though, and some may conceptualize that they'd do it, but then later put it off and never end up doing it. Waiting for the fan to get noisey means it has already worn play into the bearing and the benefit of lube would then only be to keep fan spinning- no longer is it such a quiet fan anymore as even after relube it will be noisier than if it had been relubed before the bearing wear accelerated.
 
what is this crap about having 2 fans with only 1 db difference? obviously something is off. if you have double the noise, you have double the noise (which is 3db anyway).
 
Originally posted by: bum
Originally posted by: mindless1
These are about the lowest quality 120mm fans on the market. That is no deal at $4.

Trying to place value on a junk part by comparing to the price of a good part is not useful.

yate loons ARE junk. They use insufficient lubrication, are poorly balanced, and have cheap basic bearing design that doesn't hold nearly as well as (take your pick - NMB, Delta, Papst, Nidec, Sunon, Sanyo, Panaflo- list goes on).

You can Froogle for Panaflo and get them for about $8 ea., likely a little less if you scavenge the electronics surplus 'sites.

The deal du joir is probably a $1.50 Papst, but that's just one option and I haven't tried that particular model myself, cannot confirm specifics of operation at 12V beyond what's stated on BGMicro's page.
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Um... First of all, Panaflos and Yate Loons are not really in the same category so they aren't a great alternative to Yate Loon. Everyone except you seems to think that Yate Loons are on par with the other "quiet fan" brands. Especially when these are as low as $3.99 a piece, you better have to evidence that convinces me these aren't worth it.

Oh yeah, and you linked to a "162CFM, 60dB, ball bearing, 6000RPM" fan which "At 12V, it is very quiet". Hmm?

Edit : Yeah, I sorta misread that link. The idea that Yate Loons are overall crap fans still doesn't mix with what I've heard, but since they are so cheap I think I'll try some for myself.
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If you want to talk quiet, go meet some of the guys at SilentPCReview. Panaflos are quiet and I admit that. I have a 120mm panaflo myself. I also have a Yate Loon. Yate loon and Nexus are the new quiet fans. Panaflos don't exactly cut it anymore.

I honestly think it just depends where you go. To be honest, you guys are a great community, but there's no specialization.

I go to XS for crazy overclocking, and SPCR for quiet computing, and DFI-street for DFI advice. A few members at AT do follow what I read at the other places, but for the most part, I don't see too many people recommending superb products here.

Yate Loon is awesome. This is a kick@$$ deal, and definitely jump in on it.
 
Originally posted by: johnnqq
what is this crap about having 2 fans with only 1 db difference? obviously something is off. if you have double the noise, you have double the noise (which is 3db anyway).
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"Noise" is a human perception. In these common frequency ranges, the human ear's sensitivity to noise changes on a logarithmic scale. It would take 10db for the listener to perceive a doubling in noise even though 2 fans do have the potential to double the sonic energy.

However, "have the potential" to double can't be considered constant either if if both fans were identical in operation since they are not in same position relative to the listener nor relative to the case. Therefore, it is entirely possible that only 1db additional noise would escape the case with a 2nd identical fan, but on the other hand depending on the case pressurization and orientation of the fans, further turblence or bearing noise might increase OR decrease as a result of the two fans working in conjunction. 3db could easily be too high or too low after they're integrated into a system.

Either way, it is highly unlikely that it would sound twice as loud, but more importantly, having added another fan there is the potential to decrease the fan speeds and still retain necessary minimum chassis flow rate. In this scenario, it is often possible to decrease the total noise produced by adding another fan, particularly when a single fan provides insufficient flow at near it's lowest smooth RPM.

Whether fans are positioned on front, side or rear of case is yet another variable, too complex to get into as I for one am not going to rearrange my room in an attempt to further reduce audible noise when it is already very low.
 
Originally posted by: johnnqq
what is this crap about having 2 fans with only 1 db difference? obviously something is off. if you have double the noise, you have double the noise (which is 3db anyway).
Click to expand...


See the link in the post where I mentioned that (the link is right next to where I mention it). The guy testing it found that at slightly higher dB, i.e. 30 dB, that 3 dB additional rule of thumb for 2 fans instead of 1 held true. But at the very low end from 16 up through 21 dB, it didn't, it was only 1 dB additional.
The link has some highly technical and detailed information on why this is the case.
It also has info and links and graphs of "Fletcher Munson curves" which I have no idea wtf they are, but I think has to do with human hearing sensitivity vs frequency, and dont really have much to do with the 1 dB differance thing anyway (from reading the thread its probably from the amount of ambient compared to the fan). Anyway, if you want technical info on some of this, that link is a decent place to start.

Also some following posts in that linked thread give highly detailed math which I'm not going to bother doing a detailed analysis, but if you want here's a sample:
1 fan at 6V PLUS ambient: 16.5 dBA
2 fan at 6V PLUS ambient
= 10*log( 10^(9.63/10) + 10^(9.63/10) + 10^(15.5/10) )
= 17.3 dBA
Click to expand...
You can read that post for more detail on where some of the numbers come from like 9.63 and 15.5 if you like, there's some calculations of ambient, etc. Anyway, apparently the 3 dB thing comes from this: 10*log(2) which is approx 3. But apparently there are some other factors that may be involved. Anyway, feel free to read it if you want detailed info. Those ppl over at SPCR can get incredibly technical on this stuff.
"Wim has shown that the Energy doubling rule still does apply, even though it doesn't seem apparent." There's another quote from the thread. So no laws of conservation are broken here 🙂

You can probably verify his specific calculations by using the dBadder proggy here if you dont want to deal with log numbers:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/Web_Links+index-req-viewlink-cid-19.html

There's a mention of the nexus dB vs airflow vs voltage:
12V : 38~41 cfm : 22~23 dBA/1m
9V : 31~33 cfm : 19~20 dBA/1m
7V : 23~24cfm : <18 dBA/1m
5V : 15 cfm : <17 dBA/1m
Click to expand...
The yate loon will be slightly higher airflow and noise than this list because if its slightly higher RPM.

And just in case you are wondering how the crap did he measure such low levels:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article190-page2.html
A Taylor Hohendahl Engineering (THE) KP- 6M Reference Microphone is in a suspension shock mount on a boom mic stand. It is a wonderfully sensitive and linear transducer, a generous donation to the SPCR cause by Taylor Johnson (as he is known); much thanks to Mr. Johnson! On the tall stool is a Nexus 120mm fan and a handheld digital display anemometer (to measure airflow) on soft foam pad atop wooden stool. On the lower stool are a B&K 2203 SLM (capable of reading below 10 dBA) with 1603 filter accessory attached and an ordinary digital multimeter.
Click to expand...

So yeah, those dB and the airflow measurements are just about as accurate as you are going to get outside of a $1,000,000 anechoic chamber. 🙂

BTW, for mindless1: the measurements with 1 dB additional that we are discussing was done with fans outside a case. So the case doesn't figure into it in this case 🙂 However, those things you mentioned can certainly factor in when you mount the fans in a case. And of course there's potential for added vibration noise, and other things.


Bottom line cliffs notes for any people who are bored with this technical gibberish:
You aint going to find a quieter 120mm 12v fan (that can be run down to around 5v for even quieter operation) for anything close to this sale price (and there's not that much in 120mm 12v fans thats quieter at any price). So if your priority is quiet 120mm fans, this is a HAWT! must have deal.
 
In for 5. I figure they can't be any worse than the three pos panaflo's I have had die on me. Even if they don't last more than a few years thats fine by me as I will have 5 🙂

-spike
 
the measurements with 1 dB additional that we are discussing was done with fans outside a case. So the case doesn't figure into it in this case However, those things you mentioned can certainly factor in when you mount the fans in a case. And of course there's potential for added vibration noise, and other things.
Click to expand...

True, the case didn't figure into those measurements, BUT one can't presume "X" fan is actually any quieter per any application until actually measured in the device, particularly with cheap fans that may be imbalanced, unless one uses a very effective isolated mounting.

So what we end up with is inconclusive evidence to believe these will be any quieter to the person sitting behind the system, but the low-cost design being more failure prone without periodic maintenance.

Also, did you not notice something on the link to the sound testing methodology?
This page clearly shows that when it came time to fit a fan for their low-noise system running in the background during fan tests, it didn't use a (same construction) Yate Loon fan, but a panaflo. Seems like if anyone has access to enough fans to pick what worked well (in their mind), the reviewer would've?

IMO, the noise level, as integrated into a system, from the user's perspective, will not be enough to notice between many different sleeve bearing fans at same RPM. Citing a db or two in free air is not really conclusive against this, but it still doesn't account for lifespan, nor what the fan sounds like except when brand-new.

Tests are only as good as they are directly applicable, duplication of the real-life scenario. In real life I think most people are better off with a higher quality fan cooling their several-hundred-dollar-system, that's all. Maybe these YL will end up quieter than some other alternative- I dont' claim that isn't possible, but rather it isn't nearly as much of a relative difference as the quality is.
 
Originally posted by: Spike
In for 5. I figure they can't be any worse than the three pos panaflo's I have had die on me. Even if they don't last more than a few years thats fine by me as I will have 5 🙂

-spike
Click to expand...


I would be interested to know how you managed to kill the Panaflos, have you dissected them? I've had, actually still have misc. gear with Panaflos over 12 years old still running fine.
 
Originally posted by: mindless1
the measurements with 1 dB additional that we are discussing was done with fans outside a case. So the case doesn't figure into it in this case However, those things you mentioned can certainly factor in when you mount the fans in a case. And of course there's potential for added vibration noise, and other things.
Click to expand...

True, the case didn't figure into those measurements, BUT one can't presume "X" fan is actually any quieter per any application until actually measured in the device, particularly with cheap fans that may be imbalanced, unless one uses a very effective isolated mounting.

So what we end up with is inconclusive evidence to believe these will be any quieter to the person sitting behind the system, but the low-cost design being more failure prone without periodic maintenance.

Also, did you not notice something on the link to the sound testing methodology?
This page clearly shows that when it came time to fit a fan for their low-noise system running in the background during fan tests, it didn't use a (same construction) Yate Loon fan, but a panaflo. Seems like if anyone has access to enough fans to pick what worked well (in their mind), the reviewer would've?

IMO, the noise level, as integrated into a system, from the user's perspective, will not be enough to notice between many different sleeve bearing fans at same RPM. Citing a db or two in free air is not really conclusive against this, but it still doesn't account for lifespan, nor what the fan sounds like except when brand-new.

Tests are only as good as they are directly applicable, duplication of the real-life scenario. In real life I think most people are better off with a higher quality fan cooling their several-hundred-dollar-system, that's all. Maybe these YL will end up quieter than some other alternative- I dont' claim that isn't possible, but rather it isn't nearly as much of a relative difference as the quality is.
Click to expand...

I believe your fighting a loosing battle here. People like myself are more concerned with a decent performing fan thats is ultra quiet then it's build quality. Why would I care if my $4 fan craps out after a year when I spent $100 extra on a case that is just that much quieter?

We are looking for flow and silence, not longevity. With this price 5 of them is a great deal. I plan to put two into my current case and two into my new case and have one as a spare. If they fail, I always have my enermax and panaflo (the one that did not crap out on me yet) as backups. My temps are low, now I want silence.

I do appreciate the data you bring, but you can't beat this price/performance for the silent but effective crowd. I'm sure your right when it comes to longevity, but that is just not a major concern.

-spike

P.S. I plan to use a higher quality fan on my cpu cooler (ninja or xp120) these are just for intake and exhaust.
 
Originally posted by: mindless1
Originally posted by: Spike
In for 5. I figure they can't be any worse than the three pos panaflo's I have had die on me. Even if they don't last more than a few years thats fine by me as I will have 5 🙂

-spike
Click to expand...


I would be interested to know how you managed to kill the Panaflos, have you dissected them? I've had, actually still have misc. gear with Panaflos over 12 years old still running fine.
Click to expand...

Not sure on that. I had all three of them hooked to my cheap fan controller so that might have had something to do with it. Funny thing is I have a YS-Tech, another panaflo, and an enermax all hooked to that same controller and I have had no issues in a long time. Probably just bad luck for me...
 
Originally posted by: Spike
Probably just bad luck for me...
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I wouldn' call it bad luck, I'd call it a poorly designed fan controller onto the point of being defective. What brand controller?

 
Wow. According to their posted stock information they have sold almost 700 since I posted the deal. 🙂 I guess quite a few people took advantage of the deal. Hopeully it will encourage them to bring more great products at these kind of prices.
 
Originally posted by: mindless1
Also, did you not notice something on the link to the sound testing methodology?
This page clearly shows that when it came time to fit a fan for their low-noise system running in the background during fan tests, it didn't use a (same construction) Yate Loon fan, but a panaflo. Seems like if anyone has access to enough fans to pick what worked well (in their mind), the reviewer would've?
Click to expand...
Its a shuttle system thats too small for the 120mm fans. So he used a quiet 80mm fan. And in the 80mm category the panaflo is one of the best choices for quiet, especialy at low voltages (it also moves a decent amount of air for a 80mm) 🙂

I have a box of some quiet panaflo 80mm fans as well. Got them for cheap on one of these AT hawt deals from BG Micro a year or more ago. They had some funky 2 pin connector that I think some PSU's use internally, but cutting off one of the tabs on it enabled it to fit on a standard 3 pin mobo connector, albeit without RPM monitoring.
But now I've graduated to a case thats mostly 120mm fans and I need something quiet for that.
 
For anyone looking in this thread, I'll match / beat their price for Delta 120x38mm fans 😛
Take a look at my FS/FT thread! 😉
 
Originally posted by: cw42
WhoBeDaPlaya: i'm pretty sure ur not allowed to advertise FS threads here.
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I'm not sure if you are allowed to post a link inside another thread or not (I know for certain you aren't supposed to start topics with links to a personal sale thing), but to be safe I think he could just remove the link from his post but keep the wording in. Then if someone really wants to they could search for his post in FS/T.
 
Originally posted by: Devistater
Originally posted by: mindless1
Also, did you not notice something on the link to the sound testing methodology?
This page clearly shows that when it came time to fit a fan for their low-noise system running in the background during fan tests, it didn't use a (same construction) Yate Loon fan, but a panaflo. Seems like if anyone has access to enough fans to pick what worked well (in their mind), the reviewer would've?
Click to expand...
Its a shuttle system thats too small for the 120mm fans. So he used a quiet 80mm fan. And in the 80mm category the panaflo is one of the best choices for quiet, especialy at low voltages (it also moves a decent amount of air for a 80mm) 🙂
Click to expand...

You're making an arbitrary distinction here, since 80 x 25 mm Yate Loon fans with same construciton are very common. Again, this idea about "this Yate Loon being quiet" is only true if throttled back enough, and likewise other fans can also be throttled back.

I have a box of some quiet panaflo 80mm fans as well. Got them for cheap on one of these AT hawt deals from BG Micro a year or more ago. They had some funky 2 pin connector that I think some PSU's use internally, but cutting off one of the tabs on it enabled it to fit on a standard 3 pin mobo connector, albeit without RPM monitoring.
Click to expand...

You can get plastic fan connectors at various online electronics houses like Digikey, Mouser, Newark (don't recall at the moment who has what). Even so, sure, if they came with the larger pitch (.1" pin spacing rather than 2mm pin spacing) connector it will do fine to just cut off a tab.

But now I've graduated to a case thats mostly 120mm fans and I need something quiet for that.
Click to expand...

yes, I keep hearing the word "quiet" used, but a complete disregard for the fact that just about any sleeve bearing fan can be throttled back, just like these will NEED to be, to achieve lowest noise. Choosing this Yate Loon fan is not choosing a fan that will necessarily be less noisey in an optimzed use, it's only choosing a fan built cheaper.

Let's be clear- measurment at only one point, of a fan on an isolating mat is NOT evidence of which fan will be quieter, if there is any audible difference, mounted in the case. Essentially this is the worst kind of testing to apply to an actual use, because the actual use introduces variables more significant than minor differences in a dissimilar test.

Is it really that hard to see that no valid test has been done that would offer evidence these will be quieter in use? With a cheaper fan it is usually more random whether it is as well balanced and particularly important to have it mounted in the particular target enclosure before any judgement can be made about noise. This is one of the reasons the major fan manufacturers don't just opt for the cheapest way to build a fan. Further, any fan subject to faster bearing wear needs to be broken in some before the average life noise can be approached.

I'm not claiming it's impossibe these YL fans are quieter in use. I am claiming it is very premature at best, to draw this conclusion. This is not only from lack of applicable testing but also that I have ran silent systems for years without needing one specific fan make/model to do it.
 
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