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2nd set Democrat debates

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I don't think there's any guarantee at all that the eventual VP choice will be someone currently in the field. I'm not saying it *won't* be, just that even given how excessively large the field is there are potential choices outside of it (e.g. a Tim Kaine type), which has the virtue of reducing the soundbites generated by the debates that seem unlikely to get any friendlier.
 
Lol, these contradictory "headlines" regarding Biden's night made me shake my head and laugh:

https://imgur.com/ne82ekS

FWIW, I didn't watch the entire debate, but my impression was disappointment that Joe isn't the perfect version of himself that my imagination wants him to be, as far as how he comes across in the "celebrity apprentice media circus in the thunderdome" type of process we now seem to have.

Trump's morality and truth free low cunning is his not so secret strength as a media-driven candidate. I can only hope it is also his Achille's heel. 🙁
 
This feels like a math problem at this point.

For Dems to win they need the following:
- historically high black voter turnout
- flip back Obama --> Trump voters
- suburban white women swinging from R to D (continuing 2018 midterm trend)
- 35 and under crowd to show up and vote

Right now Biden has the first two pegged and it's not even close for a second.
No candidate in particular has really struck hard with the suburban women other than "anyone not Trump"
35 and under only see Bernie, Pete and Yang. Slight pulse with Warren in that crowd.

The black voting support is the single most important and confusing part of this process. Biden has such a lead there no one else even registers. With that support you no longer need to play identity politics. You have it without pandering. And Biden also does not turn off rust belt white males like Harris or Booker would. He also doesn't have to dial up Staci Abrams and look like he's playing to that market either. Which again would turn away Whitey McWhiterson rust belt male. So he has a lot more open opportunity to grab a VP that can try and appeal to women and the sub 35 crowd without rocking the boat with other groups.

If other candidates polled stronger with the black voting base this would be a wildly different discussion.
 
Horrible debate format by CNN, going for ratings instead of substance by pitting the candidates against each other. Shame on them doing the Republicans work for them. Might as well have been run by Fox News.

Biden had to defend the entire time and was cut off and was too politely stopping talking when his time was up. He took the shots and kept going though so I don't think much damage was done. Harris was basically a no show this time. Booker looked much better this time around, as did Gillibrand and a couple of others. All of the no-chancers had moments. Until the field gets cut down to 4-6 on stage, It'll be a shitstorm of bantering.


One last thing, stop with all the figures...People don't and most can't understand/care about the numbers, stick to easily remembered talking points about how it will help them and solve their problems. Treat them like the children that most of the average voters are when it comes to politics. They're still more worried about the Bachelorette episode than politics.
 
Moonbeam said:
This debate left me wondering what the best ways are to lead less evolved, less political and morally thought out people to move toward and vote for things that would likely make them better off in the end. How high do you reach and how high is so high it will fail.

Progressive vision vs conservative fear. Economic benefit to average people or the stasis propaganda conditioning of cultural norms we have been indoctrinated with by those who benefit economically by our backward system. How much can you ask of sleepers that they wake up?
Click to expand...
One example of reaching out to those considered by many to be beyond redemption, but very difficult for those that believe all they have to do is point a finger from their moral high ground and anything more than that means the person is a permanently lost deplorable.



Why I, as a black man, attend KKK rallies.
 
glenn1 said:
IMHO the Biden pick was because Obama was relatively inexperienced (2 years in the U.S. Senate at that point?) and Biden had a ton of experience, Uncle Joe's relative "moderation" had very little to do with it. The other alternative he considered (Hillary) also had little experience plus was a hugely polarizing figure that might have been an active drain on his chances (see 2016 election). I suppose he could have picked another of the Dem also-rans in 2008 like Chris Dodd or John Edwards, but it's not like they brought something Biden didn't. Of course this is all speculation since it's not like Obama is going to come out and say "yeah, I picked Biden because he was a moderate" but I don't know how applicable it is here anyway.
Click to expand...

I mean who knows, but my gut says if Warren wins she'll go with a moderate VP. I guess we'll find out!
 
vi edit said:
This feels like a math problem at this point.

For Dems to win they need the following:
- historically high black voter turnout
- flip back Obama --> Trump voters
- suburban white women swinging from R to D (continuing 2018 midterm trend)
- 35 and under crowd to show up and vote

Right now Biden has the first two pegged and it's not even close for a second.
No candidate in particular has really struck hard with the suburban women other than "anyone not Trump"
35 and under only see Bernie, Pete and Yang. Slight pulse with Warren in that crowd.

The black voting support is the single most important and confusing part of this process. Biden has such a lead there no one else even registers. With that support you no longer need to play identity politics. You have it without pandering. And Biden also does not turn off rust belt white males like Harris or Booker would. He also doesn't have to dial up Staci Abrams and look like he's playing to that market either. Which again would turn away Whitey McWhiterson rust belt male. So he has a lot more open opportunity to grab a VP that can try and appeal to women and the sub 35 crowd without rocking the boat with other groups.

If other candidates polled stronger with the black voting base this would be a wildly different discussion.
Click to expand...

Women especially are going to be very bitter if white old guy Biden's the top pick and he doesn't pick a female or person of color as his Veep. Not enough to vote against him, but the undercurrent of "it's our time" is very strong in the 2018 Democratic base. They were chomping at the bit for Hillary to be elected in 2016 and if they need to wait again they might go apoplectic. If Biden is the POTUS pick then IMHO he's going to be under tremendous pressure to pick a VP that's at least one of the following (and preferably all 3): non-white, female, very progressive.
 
A ticket with Warren as top billing is DOA. Quote me on that. I'll be happy to admit I'm wrong November 2020. But I highly doubt I am.
 
vi edit said:
A ticket with Warren as top billing is DOA. Quote me on that. I'll be happy to admit I'm wrong November 2020. But I highly doubt I am.
Click to expand...

Other than booty, Warren and Sanders.. I don't see anyone else beating Trump.

Only those 3 have actual ideas.
 
Indus said:
Other than booty, Warren and Sanders.. I don't see anyone else beating Trump.

Only those 3 have actual ideas.
Click to expand...
How many of those ideas will get any traction with Moscow Mitch and a Republican senate? Unless we can get a majority controlled Congress and end the filibuster nothing will get done except rolling back Trump's executive orders.
 
Perknose said:
This may sound clueless of me, but I'm not sure how you mean this. I don't trust or want Tulsi either. She has strong homophobic fundie hawk roots, now all dressed up in glittery progressive finery. For anyone all goo-goo eyed over her, here's at least one article you should take in.
Click to expand...

As a joke of course. She also seems to have a lot of social media bots behind her, as well as some positions well aligned with Putin's.
Coincidence?....
 
SlowSpyder said:
Trump will wipe the floor with any of these Democrat scumbags.
Click to expand...
Well, it looks like most of the scumbags are polling at like 0-2%. As long as we get somebody honest, honorable, just, and sensible like Sanders or Warren, we should have no problem dethroning 2 bit dictator wanna be trump.
 
glenn1 said:
IMHO the Biden pick was because Obama was relatively inexperienced (2 years in the U.S. Senate at that point?) and Biden had a ton of experience, Uncle Joe's relative "moderation" had very little to do with it. The other alternative he considered (Hillary) also had little experience plus was a hugely polarizing figure that might have been an active drain on his chances (see 2016 election). I suppose he could have picked another of the Dem also-rans in 2008 like Chris Dodd or John Edwards, but it's not like they brought something Biden didn't. Of course this is all speculation since it's not like Obama is going to come out and say "yeah, I picked Biden because he was a moderate" but I don't know how applicable it is here anyway.
Click to expand...

That was part of it, but also because working class Joe could also ease fears about Obama with some key demographics and regions, as well as being an old Senate hand that knew how to crank the legislative machinery.

Same with Pence being wingman to Trump.

Some may not like the identity aspects of the VP nom, but politics find their way into politics.

With my comments about Warren as a VP pick (esp for Biden) Biden has all the DC connections and skills. All he'll need from a VP is an identity/demographic play, but not pick someone terrible like McCain did with Caribou Barbie.
Picking her only creates risk with very little return. It would be crazy.
 
BurnItDwn said:
Well, it looks like most of the scumbags are polling at like 0-2%. As long as we get somebody honest, honorable, just, and sensible like Sanders or Warren, we should have no problem dethroning 2 bit dictator wanna be trump.
Click to expand...

Did you try to put Sanders and Warren in the same sentence with the words honest, honorable, just, and sensible?
 
brandonbull said:
The way you and the other liberal idiots obsess over him, nice attempted homophobic insult by the way, it seems you have the fascination with Trump and not me. Some people are still trying to win the 2016 election.
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The guy is POTUS so concern is highly warranted. I wonder why you still grade him on a curve?
 
For those criticizing the Dems at this debate I want to remind you this is the same venue when Republicans were there the topic was the size of Trump's hands.
 
HomerJS said:
For those criticizing the Dems at this debate I want to remind you this is the same venue when Republicans were there the topic was the size of Trump's hands.
Click to expand...
Hard hitting issues for sure for the Republicans. Nothing but quality substance in their debates.
 
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