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.22LR not a good round for defense?

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TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,044
62
91
Originally posted by: RadiclDreamer
Originally posted by: upsciLLion
It doesn't cause enough tissue trauma.
No, but the sound and the small hole will be enough to send most criminals running. The majority are cowards
It is possible to be shot and not even realize it, or what happens when you miss? The light clack of a firearm chambered in 22LR isn't going to scare anyone. Dropping a book on the floor would be louder. Have you even shot a firearm before?


Oh, and K1052, I hear that they are fairly enjoyable in 44 magnum. Never tried one myself though.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
36,898
11,107
136
Originally posted by: TallBill
Originally posted by: RadiclDreamer
Originally posted by: upsciLLion
It doesn't cause enough tissue trauma.
No, but the sound and the small hole will be enough to send most criminals running. The majority are cowards
It is possible to be shot and not even realize it, or what happens when you miss? The light clack of a firearm chambered in 22LR isn't going to scare anyone. Dropping a book on the floor would be louder. Have you even shot a firearm before?


Oh, and K1052, I hear that they are fairly enjoyable in 44 magnum. Never tried one myself though.
Using one chambered in .44 magnum as opposed to .50AE will obviously tame down the pistol quite a bit due to less power and the sheer mass of the gun. IMO they just aren't very reliable guns and you have to practice quite a bit before it can be shot decently due to its quirks. I personally wouldn't consider them much more than a novelty.

 
Aug 23, 2000
15,511
1
81
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: sponge008
Everyone knows the deagle in .50 is best.
Yeah, if you are strong enough to hold onto it and shoot it straight. Also helps if you don't like your ability to hear.

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
While it is true a .22 can kill someone, it almost never has been an instant kill. It just isn't large enough to cause serious debilitating wounds. It also can't create a large enough wound channel to cause more damage than just the projectile. Unless you sever the spine or causes massive head trauma you aren't going to drop someone instantly, especially if they are hopped up on something. And a .22 will penetrate a body, it will not make it deep enough to reach the spine.
Where do you people come up with this bullsh!t? A damned BB can cause "debilitating wounds" if shot in the right spots.
Where do you get your bullshit? A bb nor a .22 is going to drop someone cold, hell, even a 45 wont unless you hit them in the central nerveous system, ie, spine or brain. Also, a 9mm is not that good of a self defense round as they tend to go through people Larger calibers create bigger wounds. When picking a self defense round you need to be wary of over penetration, so you don't want a 230Gr 9mm because it will be so damn fast it will just pass through someone and possibly hit a bystandard.

But I guess you are an expert marksman under stress in a moving situation where someone is trying to kill you. We are talking about real life, not Counter Strike.
 

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,806
44
91
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: sponge008
Everyone knows the deagle in .50 is best.
Yeah, if you are strong enough to hold onto it and shoot it straight. Also helps if you don't like your ability to hear.

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
While it is true a .22 can kill someone, it almost never has been an instant kill. It just isn't large enough to cause serious debilitating wounds. It also can't create a large enough wound channel to cause more damage than just the projectile. Unless you sever the spine or causes massive head trauma you aren't going to drop someone instantly, especially if they are hopped up on something. And a .22 will penetrate a body, it will not make it deep enough to reach the spine.
Where do you people come up with this bullsh!t? A damned BB can cause "debilitating wounds" if shot in the right spots.
Where do you get your bullshit? A bb nor a .22 is going to drop someone cold, hell, even a 45 wont unless you hit them in the central nerveous system, ie, spine or brain. Also, a 9mm is not that good of a self defense round as they tend to go through people Larger calibers create bigger wounds. When picking a self defense round you need to be wary of over penetration, so you don't want a 230Gr 9mm because it will be so damn fast it will just pass through someone and possibly hit a bystandard.

But I guess you are an expert marksman under stress in a moving situation where someone is trying to kill you. We are talking about real life, not Counter Strike.
230 gr. 9mm? most is like 115 or 147 from what i've seen. thats both hollow point and FMJ.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
36,898
11,107
136
Originally posted by: pontifex
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: sponge008
Everyone knows the deagle in .50 is best.
Yeah, if you are strong enough to hold onto it and shoot it straight. Also helps if you don't like your ability to hear.

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
While it is true a .22 can kill someone, it almost never has been an instant kill. It just isn't large enough to cause serious debilitating wounds. It also can't create a large enough wound channel to cause more damage than just the projectile. Unless you sever the spine or causes massive head trauma you aren't going to drop someone instantly, especially if they are hopped up on something. And a .22 will penetrate a body, it will not make it deep enough to reach the spine.
Where do you people come up with this bullsh!t? A damned BB can cause "debilitating wounds" if shot in the right spots.
Where do you get your bullshit? A bb nor a .22 is going to drop someone cold, hell, even a 45 wont unless you hit them in the central nerveous system, ie, spine or brain. Also, a 9mm is not that good of a self defense round as they tend to go through people Larger calibers create bigger wounds. When picking a self defense round you need to be wary of over penetration, so you don't want a 230Gr 9mm because it will be so damn fast it will just pass through someone and possibly hit a bystandard.

But I guess you are an expert marksman under stress in a moving situation where someone is trying to kill you. We are talking about real life, not Counter Strike.
230 gr. 9mm? most is like 115 or 147 from what i've seen. thats both hollow point and FMJ.
147 grain is pretty much the top end for 9mm. 230 grain is the orginal standard .45 ACP bullet.
 

sponge008

Senior member
Jan 28, 2005
325
0
0
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: RadiclDreamer
Originally posted by: sponge008
Everyone knows the deagle in .50 is best.
You play too much counter strike if you are calling it a DEAGLE outside of game
Its a sh!tty gun anyway.
I think this makes five people who didn't get the joke. Was it that vague?
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
36,898
11,107
136
Originally posted by: sponge008
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: RadiclDreamer
Originally posted by: sponge008
Everyone knows the deagle in .50 is best.
You play too much counter strike if you are calling it a DEAGLE outside of game
Its a sh!tty gun anyway.
I think this makes five people who didn't get the joke. Was it that vague?
There are people on here who could be serious.
 
Aug 23, 2000
15,511
1
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Originally posted by: Vic
Oh c'mon... try shooting yourself in the arm or leg with a .22 and tell me you wouldn't be incapacitated.

Anything that can put a hole in someone can stop that someone. It's that simple. Don't believe me, think about having a hole in yourself. And a .22lr will leave a hole, guaranteed.

The whole caliber argument is the gun equivalent of e-penis. I swear, I pull out my P226 at the range and some tool has to tell me that he "wouldn't trust anything less than a .45 for home defense." Which is why the 9mm is used by military and police the world around, right? :roll:


edit: Oh FFS, now people are comparing .22's to salad forks and butter knives... :roll:
The reason they are comparing salad forks and butter knives is because people like you are so stuck in a stupid belief that they have to use stupid comparisons with you. A butter knife, could kill someone IF it struck the right part of the body AND penetrated deeply enough. Replace butter knife with .22 and you'll get the point. a .22 is June Beaver's butter knife, a .45 is Rambo's knife. Is that easier for you to understand since you seem to be getting your information from make believe sources?
 

Squisher

Lifer
Aug 17, 2000
21,207
65
91
I'm not going to discount the need to be proficient with the firearm you choose as a means of defense.

But, chances are if you confront an intruder (and I like TallBill's notion of ambush) in your house you're going to need to strike a target from 6 to 8 feet away.

If you're 30 feet and two rooms away and alone in the house, if it's possible, exit the without any confrontation. Let the professionals handle it.

If I was forced to defend my family I'd surely want a gun that I wouldn't feel was a burden to keep close at hand (because I don't ever want to "go get" my gun), yet would have the greatest chance of stopping an intruder.

My choice is a .40 cal plastic framed ultra compact.

 

thepd7

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2005
9,429
0
0
Originally posted by: TallBill
Originally posted by: RadiclDreamer
Originally posted by: upsciLLion
It doesn't cause enough tissue trauma.
No, but the sound and the small hole will be enough to send most criminals running. The majority are cowards
It is possible to be shot and not even realize it, or what happens when you miss? The light clack of a firearm chambered in 22LR isn't going to scare anyone. Dropping a book on the floor would be louder. Have you even shot a firearm before?


Oh, and K1052, I hear that they are fairly enjoyable in 44 magnum. Never tried one myself though.
You were doing pretty well until here. A supersonic .22lr is loud. Not compared to a .40 or .45acp but in close quarters it will scare the piss out of some thug breaking in to your house. Shoot at them 5-6 times and they are most likely running even if you don't hit them.

I am not sure where you are getting that these people breaking in to your house are battle-hardened soldiers carrying 40 cal glocks and advancing against you even after you are shooting them. They are breaking in to someone house for goodness sakes.
 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,044
62
91
Originally posted by: thepd7

You were doing pretty well until here. A supersonic .22lr is loud. Not compared to a .40 or .45acp but in close quarters it will scare the piss out of some thug breaking in to your house. Shoot at them 5-6 times and they are most likely running even if you don't hit them.

I am not sure where you are getting that these people breaking in to your house are battle-hardened soldiers carrying 40 cal glocks and advancing against you even after you are shooting them. They are breaking in to someone house for goodness sakes.
I dunno, I guess we'll just have to disagree that a 22lr is or isn't loud. I do know that I can fire my Mark II with no hearing protection, and no ringing whatsoever in my ears, but any of my handguns with modest hearing protection will still do a bit of damage to my hearing.

 

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,806
44
91
Originally posted by: TallBill
Originally posted by: thepd7

You were doing pretty well until here. A supersonic .22lr is loud. Not compared to a .40 or .45acp but in close quarters it will scare the piss out of some thug breaking in to your house. Shoot at them 5-6 times and they are most likely running even if you don't hit them.

I am not sure where you are getting that these people breaking in to your house are battle-hardened soldiers carrying 40 cal glocks and advancing against you even after you are shooting them. They are breaking in to someone house for goodness sakes.
I dunno, I guess we'll just have to disagree that a 22lr is or isn't loud. I do know that I can fire my Mark II with no hearing protection, and no ringing whatsoever in my ears, but any of my handguns with modest hearing protection will still do a bit of damage to my hearing.
i can shoot a .22 rifle without hearing protection but its still loud. forget a .22 pistol though. tried shooting my ruger single six without protection and that is really loud.
 

Gooberlx2

Lifer
May 4, 2001
15,381
5
91
Originally posted by: thepd7
Originally posted by: TallBill
Originally posted by: RadiclDreamer
Originally posted by: upsciLLion
It doesn't cause enough tissue trauma.
No, but the sound and the small hole will be enough to send most criminals running. The majority are cowards
It is possible to be shot and not even realize it, or what happens when you miss? The light clack of a firearm chambered in 22LR isn't going to scare anyone. Dropping a book on the floor would be louder. Have you even shot a firearm before?


Oh, and K1052, I hear that they are fairly enjoyable in 44 magnum. Never tried one myself though.
You were doing pretty well until here. A supersonic .22lr is loud. Not compared to a .40 or .45acp but in close quarters it will scare the piss out of some thug breaking in to your house. Shoot at them 5-6 times and they are most likely running even if you don't hit them.

I am not sure where you are getting that these people breaking in to your house are battle-hardened soldiers carrying 40 cal glocks and advancing against you even after you are shooting them. They are breaking in to someone house for goodness sakes.
The way I look at it is that if someone has broken into your house and you're having to use your gun, you're already at the worst-case-scenario. Might as well prepare for all reasonable facets of it...some of which are that the burglar could be packing, or on drugs, or huge, or used to gunfire from gang related gun battles, or all of the above. You never know and might as well have something that's going to give a better chance of keeping the intruder at bay when firing hasty and panicked shots into their (usually, I suspect) center mass.

edit: maybe panicked isn't the right word....perhaps "adrenalized" would be better.
 

hanoverphist

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2006
9,928
23
76
Originally posted by: upsciLLion
Originally posted by: IGBT
Originally posted by: TallBill
What are you trying to prove IGBT?


..the .22 is greatly under rated in it's lethal effects and this misconception has resulted in death and injury.
Take a look at the difference between the wound cavities from .22LR and 9mm hollow points. The 22 will make you bleed out eventually, but the 9mm will send your body into shock in fairly short order.
thats the 9mm i keep in my ruger at home. i have one mag filled with those and 3 with fmj in it.
 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,044
62
91
Originally posted by: pontifex

i can shoot a .22 rifle without hearing protection but its still loud. forget a .22 pistol though. tried shooting my ruger single six without protection and that is really loud.
Thepd7, were you referring to a pistol chambered in .22? I've never fired one, so I'll concede that it probably would be loud. I keep thinking rifle, since thats what most weapons chambered in .22 are.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,434
84
91
Me.... I would just move out of the hood and not worry about home break ins.
 

hanoverphist

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2006
9,928
23
76
Originally posted by: TallBill
Originally posted by: pontifex

i can shoot a .22 rifle without hearing protection but its still loud. forget a .22 pistol though. tried shooting my ruger single six without protection and that is really loud.
Thepd7, were you referring to a pistol chambered in .22? I've never fired one, so I'll concede that it probably would be loud. I keep thinking rifle, since thats what most weapons chambered in .22 are.
ive fired that single six too, they are loud. so is that .22LR HD semiauto pistol... cant remember who makes it, only saw it a couple times when a friend brought it to a shooting trip. fun little buggers tho, 6" barrel and resembled a 1911 frame. the HD one wasnt as loud, but im guessing thats due to the shell being covered by the receiver.

i ccant believe people are still arguing in this thread...

and a hollow point 9mm wont go thru most people, unless they are less than 10" thick.

offtopic: anyone ever heard of a 44-60 round? im trying to figure out if someone i met was just spinning a yarn or not...
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
36,898
11,107
136
Originally posted by: hanoverphist
offtopic: anyone ever heard of a 44-60 round? im trying to figure out if someone i met was just spinning a yarn or not...
44-60 Sharps

an obscure and very obsolete round

 

hanoverphist

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2006
9,928
23
76
he had a huge HUGE pistol that fired them, said it was a converted rifle. was much fun to shoot, even tho it would give you a headache from the noise. had to put a strap on my arm to keep it from hitting me in the forehead on the recoil, and the rounds were huge. just had never heard of the size, thought he was funnin.
 

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,806
44
91
Originally posted by: rudder
Me.... I would just move out of the hood and not worry about home break ins.
right, so that doctor's family that was murdered a few days ago lived in the "hood"? or bad things never happen outside the "hood"? if thats your thinking, good luck.
 

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,806
44
91
Originally posted by: hanoverphist
he had a huge HUGE pistol that fired them, said it was a converted rifle. was much fun to shoot, even tho it would give you a headache from the noise. had to put a strap on my arm to keep it from hitting me in the forehead on the recoil, and the rounds were huge. just had never heard of the size, thought he was funnin.
my uncle has a 45-70 pistol that he is trying to sell
Text. the thing is f-ing huge and 45-70 is a huge rifle cartridge

i wouldn't want to shoot that thing.
 

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,806
44
91
Originally posted by: hanoverphist
Originally posted by: TallBill
Originally posted by: pontifex

i can shoot a .22 rifle without hearing protection but its still loud. forget a .22 pistol though. tried shooting my ruger single six without protection and that is really loud.
Thepd7, were you referring to a pistol chambered in .22? I've never fired one, so I'll concede that it probably would be loud. I keep thinking rifle, since thats what most weapons chambered in .22 are.
ive fired that single six too, they are loud. so is that .22LR HD semiauto pistol... cant remember who makes it, only saw it a couple times when a friend brought it to a shooting trip. fun little buggers tho, 6" barrel and resembled a 1911 frame. the HD one wasnt as loud, but im guessing thats due to the shell being covered by the receiver.

i ccant believe people are still arguing in this thread...

and a hollow point 9mm wont go thru most people, unless they are less than 10" thick.

offtopic: anyone ever heard of a 44-60 round? im trying to figure out if someone i met was just spinning a yarn or not...
quite possible one of the Ruger Mark # series. one of their big selling points is that the grip and trigger is exactly like the 1911.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
36,898
11,107
136
Originally posted by: upsciLLion
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: hanoverphist
offtopic: anyone ever heard of a 44-60 round? im trying to figure out if someone i met was just spinning a yarn or not...
44-60 Sharps

an obscure and very obsolete round
.45-70 Gov't, on the other hand, is a fucking sledge hammer.
Yep, .45-70 will ruin your whole day.

I've been meaning to pick up a Marlin .45-70 one of these days...
 

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