203,000 more jobs; unemployment down to 7%. Can we just enjoy this moment?

[schmuckley]

I wonder if its faked like before the election. Obama needs to improve his poll numbers. He's done it once, why not a 2nd.

Of course it's faked..Unemployment is about as high as it was during the Carter administration.A lot of people have simply given up.The only difference is.. back then..The "unemployment rate" was actually people that were unemployed..nowadays it's people who are collecting unemployment.
The amount of people who are literally unemployed is about 17%..That's not good.

http://rt.com/usa/jobs-us-employment-welfare-749/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/04/unemployment-rate-april-jobs_n_1477014.html

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-08/more-101-million-working-age-americans-do-not-have-job

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Sigh, its ok to not like Obama, its ok to not like Democrats, its ok not to like big business, its ok not to like Republicans, its ok not to like the Tea Party.
Why do we all have so much trouble accepting good news?

 

[Sonikku]

Didn't dig into the report did you?

Don't need to. I get all I need from the topic title. :\

 

[rudeguy]

Of course it's faked..Unemployment is about as high as it was during the Carter administration.A lot of people have simply given up.The only difference is.. back then..The "unemployment rate" was actually people that were unemployed..nowadays it's people who are collecting unemployment.
The amount of people who are literally unemployed is about 17%..That's not good.

http://rt.com/usa/jobs-us-employment-welfare-749/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/04/unemployment-rate-april-jobs_n_1477014.html

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-08/more-101-million-working-age-americans-do-not-have-job

NO!

Obama said its only 7%. I believe Obama.

 

[schmuckley]

Sigh, its ok to not like Obama, its ok to not like Democrats, its ok not to like big business, its ok not to like Republicans, its ok not to like the Tea Party.
Why do we all have so much trouble accepting good news?

Because there is no good news;just lies and propaganda.

 

[BUnit1701]

Because there is no good news;just lies and propaganda.

Stole the words from my mouth.

Mmm Mmm Mmm, give me some more of this hope and change!

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/41-net-new-jobs-november-were-government

 

[berzerker60]

You are so naive. I suggest reading about the role Madison had in writing the Constitution

I know full well Madison's role. I also don't give a crap. He's long dead. His words aren't some kind of inerrant biblical scripture. Its his opinion that the government of the early 1800s shouldn't do public works; fine, he can believe that all he wants. The government of the early 2000s does public works, and should. There's been 200 years of jurisprudence, plus a huge change towards federalism as a result of a civil freaking war over the issue, and the Constitution has changed both by amendments and by accepted interpretation. All along it was for promoting the common good, and that part IS in the Constitution, but the country is allowed to change its mind about how precisely that works.

We also don't have slavery anymore, just FYI, but Madison was all for the 3/5 clause, so maybe we should bring that back to please our demi-god ~*Founding Fathers*~?

I really can't think of one instance where government policy has helped the economy...ever! Lack thereof..yes.
Regulations..no.

Then go read about the cyclical bank panics and crashes that were disastrous to the economy for decades before the Federal Reserve and FDIC put a stop to it. The government has done tremendous good for the economy by putting in regulations that have smoothed out the booms and busts of the past - not perfectly by any means, but it's way better than it used to be. Also the highway system, airports, police and rule of law enforcement, investment in science and technology (for example, the internet we're using for our dumb forum), etc., all crucial to a functioning economy.

Not to mention made the economy incredibly more humane and in service of the people involved in by things like clean food and water, medicines that work, schools for children instead of laboring in mines and losing fingers in mills, etc., etc.

 

[xBiffx]

Thread is about jobs. Post is about jobs. Off topic not found, and the only one trolling is you.

Post was about Obamacare, Lord knows we have plenty of threads already on that topic. Point to my troll.

While you're at it, fuck yourself too.

 

[Moonbeam]

I thought Obamacare was going to kill the jobs?

And I thought blatant off-topic posts and trolling was against the rules.

Thread is about jobs. Post is about jobs. Off topic not found, and the only one trolling is you.

Post was about Obamacare, Lord knows we have plenty of threads already on that topic. Point to my troll.

While you're at it, fuck yourself too.

OP was also a question, "Can we just enjoy this moment?", so strictly speaking the OP isn't just about jobs nor not about Obamacare when a question is raised regarding how hatred of Obamacare might affect conservative reactions to good employment news if there is a belief that Obamacare should affect unemployment negatively. In short, what I see is that xBiffx didn't like having this pointed out and called it trolling. It was an attack on an altered reality that conservatives seek to maintain and separate from any positive feelings they have about good economic news. "Let me enjoy the good news but don't rum my nose in my other beliefs or point out the possible cognitive dissonance.

 

[Incorruptible]

It's not like obama has fudged the numbers before to make himself look better. This isn't really good news.

 

[Matt1970]

OP was also a question, "Can we just enjoy this moment?", so strictly speaking the OP isn't just about jobs nor not about Obamacare when a question is raised regarding how hatred of Obamacare might affect conservative reactions to good employment news if there is a belief that Obamacare should affect unemployment negatively. In short, what I see is that xBiffx didn't like having this pointed out and called it trolling. It was an attack on an altered reality that conservatives seek to maintain and separate from any positive feelings they have about good economic news. "Let me enjoy the good news but don't rum my nose in my other beliefs or point out the possible cognitive dissonance.

No, senseamp was starting shit with a trolling thread derail attempt, xBiffx called him on his trolling, and you found yet another spot to tell people about Conservative Brain Defect.

 

[Matt1970]

I thought Obamacare was going to kill the jobs?

Oh ya, and BTW, I thought the sequestration was supposed to send us into a spiraling free-fall double-dip recession?

 

[BUnit1701]

OP was also a question, "Can we just enjoy this moment?", so strictly speaking the OP isn't just about jobs nor not about Obamacare when a question is raised regarding how hatred of Obamacare might affect conservative reactions to good employment news if there is a belief that Obamacare should affect unemployment negatively. In short, what I see is that xBiffx didn't like having this pointed out and called it trolling. It was an attack on an altered reality that conservatives seek to maintain and separate from any positive feelings they have about good economic news. "Let me enjoy the good news but don't rum my nose in my other beliefs or point out the possible cognitive dissonance.

Hmm, but what if these numbers are largely due to the 'tech surge' to fix healthcare.gov? 41% of the added jobs were in government.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/41-net-new-jobs-november-were-government

 

[Moonbeam]

Hmm, but what if these numbers are largely due to the 'tech surge' to fix healthcare.gov? 41% of the added jobs were in government.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/41-net-new-jobs-november-were-government

That's trolling because it hurts my feelings.

 

[senseamp]

Post was about Obamacare, Lord knows we have plenty of threads already on that topic. Point to my troll.

While you're at it, fuck yourself too.

Post was about jobs. With job numbers coming in, perfect opportunity to evaluate claims that Obamacare would destroy jobs.
Looks like those claims don't hold water, so you want to end the discussion, and when that doesn't work, you resort to profanity.
Very predictable rightwinger behavior.

 

[sandorski]

Good news if the trend continues.

 

[Moonbeam]

No, senseamp was starting shit with a trolling thread derail attempt, xBiffx called him on his trolling, and you found yet another spot to tell people about Conservative Brain Defect.

It doesn't work that way. You have to disprove that when the OP asks if we can enjoy the moment and somebody suggests some of us won't because they are programmed to assume that Obamacare will reduce employment, that this point is trolling. I say it's a perfectly valid point, one I have logically laid out for you which you simply dismiss as a matter of your opinion with no logical rebuttal. That's because you don't reason but rationalize owing to your brain defect. Challenge my logic rationally with reasoned argument or lose every debate you enter with me. Sorry, your opinion counts for nothing to my incisively well trained logical mind. Don't spout or bloviate. Prove with logic that trolling took place. You don't get to say what the OP's thread was about when I can read the OP as it was posted myself. Can you enjoy this moment of illumination? I sincerely doubt it. Now, maybe you would like now to rationalize away what I've said. Help yourself. Let's all wait for more of your opinion.

 

[senseamp]

Oh ya, and BTW, I thought the sequestration was supposed to send us into a spiraling free-fall double-dip recession?

Sequestration hasn't fully kicked in yet, and it looks like it won't since even the Republicans are bailing on it.

 

[hal2kilo]

It doesn't work that way. You have to disprove that when the OP asks if we can enjoy the moment and somebody suggests some of us won't because they are programmed to assume that Obamacare will reduce employment, that this point is trolling. I say it's a perfectly valid point, one I have logically laid out for you which you simply dismiss as a matter of your opinion with no logical rebuttal. That's because you don't reason but rationalize owing to your brain defect. Challenge my logic rationally with reasoned argument or lose every debate you enter with me. Sorry, your opinion counts for nothing to my incisively well trained logical mind. Don't spout or bloviate. Prove with logic that trolling took place. You don't get to say what the OP's thread was about when I can read the OP as it was posted myself. Can you enjoy this moment of illumination? I sincerely doubt it. Now, maybe you would like now to rationalize away what I've said. Help yourself. Let's all wait for more of your opinion.

I'd rather not.

 

[werepossum]

That's trolling because it hurts my feelings.

LOL +1

Post was about jobs. With job numbers coming in, perfect opportunity to evaluate claims that Obamacare would destroy jobs.
Looks like those claims don't hold water, so you want to end the discussion, and when that doesn't work, you resort to profanity.
Very predictable rightwinger behavior.

I agree with the bolded. We need to understand that work is not necessarily going away. If one company needs three new workers but won't hire them because of Obamacare, more than likely another company/companies will hire three new workers, or work the equivalent of overtime. If one company cuts back on part-time hours because of Obamacare, more than likely they will add more part-time jobs, or another company will take up those hours. Same with individuals - for those whose health insurance costs just skyrocketed, leaving them fewer dollars to spend on other things, those dollars are available to be spent by someone else whose health insurance costs just dropped, or by employees and/or stockholders of health insurance companies who just picked up extra business income.

Like any big government program Obamacare produces winners and losers, but most of the losers' money is probably redistributed rather than being consumed in new paperwork. That amount is a lot slimmer than we thought at the moment due to the 41% of new hires being government, but after the initial fixing contracts redistribution will probably still constitute a majority of the money Obamacare takes away. One hopes anyway.

 

[senseamp]

LOL +1


I agree with the bolded. We need to understand that work is not necessarily going away. If one company needs three new workers but won't hire them because of Obamacare, more than likely another company/companies will hire three new workers, or work the equivalent of overtime. If one company cuts back on part-time hours because of Obamacare, more than likely they will add more part-time jobs, or another company will take up those hours. Same with individuals - for those whose health insurance costs just skyrocketed, leaving them fewer dollars to spend on other things, those dollars are available to be spent by someone else whose health insurance costs just dropped, or by employees and/or stockholders of health insurance companies who just picked up extra business income.

Like any big government program Obamacare produces winners and losers, but most of the losers' money is probably redistributed rather than being consumed in new paperwork. That amount is a lot slimmer than we thought at the moment due to the 41% of new hires being government, but after the initial fixing contracts redistribution will probably still constitute a majority of the money Obamacare takes away. One hopes anyway.

Exactly. Mark Zandi was on C-SPAN during shutdown, and he mentioned that most economist are seeing Obamacare as neutral in terms of overall economic impact.

 

[Moonbeam]

Post was about jobs. With job numbers coming in, perfect opportunity to evaluate claims that Obamacare would destroy jobs.
Looks like those claims don't hold water, so you want to end the discussion, and when that doesn't work, you resort to profanity.
Very predictable rightwinger behavior.

Personally, I can't say. Economic activity may have been so good as to overcome any drag on the economy created by Obamacare masking any negative effects but which would also imply that Obamacare is not fatal to the economy. I don't know enough determine what is what. I simply don't take your point as trolling. You didn't step on any of my sacred cows which is what I think most often occurs when the 'trolling charge' comes out. It's sticking ones fingers in ones ears and yelling Na na ne na na.

 

[piasabird]

You cant trust government figures. How long will it take for people to learn this?

Before some states under reported. It is very hard to get up to date information. Even then they keep changing how they report the data. So how do you report hiring illegals? A lot of part time jobs go to illegals not regular americans.

 

[Moonbeam]

Exactly. Mark Zandi was on C-SPAN during shutdown, and he mentioned that most economist are seeing Obamacare as neutral in terms of overall economic impact.

I hope most economists are right and I hope that's not like saying most Republicans are right. That would only tell us which altered reality bubble is the most popular.

 

[Moonbeam]

You cant trust government figures. How long will it take for people to learn this?

Before some states under reported. It is very hard to get up to date information. Even then they keep changing how they report the data. So how do you report hiring illegals? A lot of part time jobs go to illegals not regular americans.

What reasons can you offer that I should believe you? What if you're looking at government numbers with brain defective vision?