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2025 CAFE target officially 54.5mpg

I see it as a reality, and rather easy. I run with full OBD-II emissions control at 38 MPG highway and 28 city....with 260 HP at the wheels...with a 2004 engine.

The Volkswagen Jetta TDI gets 44 and 38 recorded by several car magazines. A ten MPG jump in 14 years should be CAKE.

I drove a friends 1996 hyper-miler Neon for a week and got 43 MPG highway and 34 city.

I'm sure others out there have beaten 55 MPG by now with the Jetta in the Hyper miler community.
 
Throckmorton said:
According to one of the comments that's really only 40mpg in the real world.
Click to expand...

Yeah, apparently the measurements used for CAFE are not the same as the EPA values on the window stickers. From what I've heard, the EPA numbers show about 20% higher fuel consumption than CAFE.
 
Pariah said:
Good luck with this one. No vehicle on the road today that uses fuel, including hybrids, is rated at even 50mpg highway. Only the Prius (51mpg city
) is rated above 50 for either city or highway. The end of the combustion engine appears to be much closer than first assumed.

2025 CAFE target set at 54.5 mpg; everyone's apparently happy with that
Click to expand...
I disagree with the difficulty. the current Prius need get only 10% better to reach this and the Prius c, which should be out next year, will probably get this right out the gate.

The technology just needs to span to more vehicles and mildly mature.

Obviously, though, while such a goal is easily achieved for Kammbach hybrids it's going to do a number on V8 two-doors!
Yeah, apparently the measurements used for CAFE are not the same as the EPA values on the window stickers. From what I've heard, the EPA numbers show about 20% higher fuel consumption than CAFE.
Click to expand...
Oh right, that crap, that rings a bell. Like by CAFE standards a Prius is rated at 70 or something stupid like that.
 
Doppel said:
Obviously, though, while such a goal is easily achieved for Kammbach hybrids it's going to do a number on V8 two-doors!Oh right, that crap, that rings a bell. Like by CAFE standards a Prius is rated at 70 or something stupid like that.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I wonder if CAFE still uses the old standard they used to use for fuel economy. For quite some time it was really hard to hit the EPA ratings but with the newer ratings they made a few years ago most people are pretty close.
 
I don't get how even an inflated rating can be more than a vehicle ever gets, even driving like a 120 year old granny. It's not like you can hypermile a car beyond its capability. Do they drive them downhill or something?
 
Throckmorton said:
I don't get how even an inflated rating can be more than a vehicle ever gets, even driving like a 120 year old granny. It's not like you can hypermile a car beyond its capability. Do they drive them downhill or something?
Click to expand...

You can read about how they used to do it here. It sounds pretty unrealistic, the old "highway" test only averaged 48 mph.
 
thescreensavers said:
OP its 15 years from now, obviously new technologies will come out to make that number happen.
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2025 model year is not 15 years away. We're in 2012 now, so that would be 13 years. If the only concern is hitting the standard. It wouldn't be difficult today. Discontinue every gasoline powered vehicle and only sell electrics. The problem is, what percentage of the public would enjoy being forced to drive a Leaf?

I see it as a reality, and rather easy. I run with full OBD-II emissions control at 38 MPG highway and 28 city....with 260 HP at the wheels...with a 2004 engine.

The Volkswagen Jetta TDI gets 44 and 38 recorded by several car magazines. A ten MPG jump in 14 years should be CAKE.

I drove a friends 1996 hyper-miler Neon for a week and got 43 MPG highway and 34 city.

I'm sure others out there have beaten 55 MPG by now with the Jetta in the Hyper miler community.
Click to expand...

Completely irrelevant. The CAFE value is not derived from what some random ahole hypermiler pissing off everyone stuck behind him gets for fuel economy. It's either pulled from official EPA results (about 30% of new cars) or from values reported by the manufacturer themselves.

Yeah, apparently the measurements used for CAFE are not the same as the EPA values on the window stickers. From what I've heard, the EPA numbers show about 20% higher fuel consumption than CAFE.
Click to expand...

Incorrect. I already stated above where the values come from. However, there is a slight loophole. Cars that have dual fuel capabilities are calculated differently. The main loophole is for E85 capable vehicles which there are quite a few. Even if no one actually runs them on E85, whatever mileage the vehicle gets on E85 (or other alternative fuel) is divided by .15. That result is then averaged with the fuel mileage on standard gasoline for its CAFE rating. So a car that gets 25mpg or so regularly may have a CAFE number around 50mpg. There is a caveat here as well. The maximum "boost" a manufactured can receive by this is 1.2mpg for their overall rating. That means, that in order for a company to hit the current 2012 standard of 31.7mpg, they would have to achieve at least 30.5mpg based on the standard efficiency ratings. That's only about a 4% curve, not 20%. Extended to the 54.5mpg target, 1.2mpg is a practically meaningless 2.2% curve.

Of course there are other ways of achieving the goal. Since CAFE is actually an industry wide goal, not a manufacturer specific goal, companies that exceed the current goal can sell credits to companies that aren't. Also, manufactures can just pay fines for not making the standard as well. BMW paid almost $70 million in fines in a 3 year stretch from 2000 to 2002. Chrysler/Mercedes got hit with $60 million combined for 2006 and 2007 model years.
 
the biofuel loophole is being phased out.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode49/usc_sec_49_00032906----000-.html

Pariah said:
Completely irrelevant. The CAFE value is not derived from what some random ahole hypermiler pissing off everyone stuck behind him gets for fuel economy. It's either pulled from official EPA results (about 30% of new cars) or from values reported by the manufacturer themselves.
Click to expand...
CAFE still uses the old EPA standard and will continue to do so.
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1857620,00.html
under the "combined unadjusted" the prius gets 70.894 mpg.


i never had any problem hitting the old EPA number.
 
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Pariah said:
2025 model year is not 15 years away. We're in 2012 now, so that would be 13 years. If the only concern is hitting the standard. It wouldn't be difficult today. Discontinue every gasoline powered vehicle and only sell electrics. The problem is, what percentage of the public would enjoy being forced to drive a Leaf?
Click to expand...

That won't work. I've lived in places where I going to the store and back would effectively wipe out the leaf's range. Until they get a HUGE increase in range and the ability to recharge they're just not a real option for many people.

Completely irrelevant. The CAFE value is not derived from what some random ahole hypermiler pissing off everyone stuck behind him gets for fuel economy. It's either pulled from official EPA results (about 30% of new cars) or from values reported by the manufacturer themselves.
Click to expand...

You're right that the values come from the EPA tests but they don't add in the things done for 2008 and later model years to correct for real world conditions like are now required on the EPA reported values used on current window stickers. That results in mileage values that are pretty much unattainable in for normal drivers.

From the EPA's own site
Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) is the required average fuel economy for a vehicle manufacturer's entire fleet of passenger cars and light trucks for each model year. It applies to passenger cars and light trucks with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 8,500 pounds or less manufactured for sale in the United States. CAFE values are obtained using the same test data generated by the fuel economy tests used to determine the fuel economy estimates for the Guide and labels, but the test results are not adjusted to account for real-world conditions. Instead, the results from the city and highway tests are combined. EPA administers the testing program which generates the fuel economy data and determines the procedures for calculating the fuel economy values for CAFE. The National Highway Traffic and Safety Administration (NHTSA), which is part of DOT, is responsible for establishing and amending the CAFE standards for trucks. Congress sets the CAFE standards for cars. EPA reports the CAFE results for each manufacturer to NHTSA annually, and NHTSA determines if the manufacturers comply with the CAFE standards and assesses penalties as required.
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Pariah said:
Good luck with this one. No vehicle on the road today that uses fuel, including hybrids, is rated at even 50mpg highway. Only the Prius (51mpg city
) is rated above 50 for either city or highway. The end of the combustion engine appears to be much closer than first assumed.

2025 CAFE target set at 54.5 mpg; everyone's apparently happy with that
Click to expand...

Nothing that is made today in the US, but the 2000 - 2006 Insight can handle that even with aggressive driving. Driving aggressively will net 50 - 60 mpg, driving non aggressively will net 70+ and that is without electric. Now that 54.5 number doesn't mean the entire fleet has to meet that standard, just a certain percentage (if I understand it correctly). There is no reason that most small cars shouldn't be in that range already. However it will require lower weight and smaller engine and / or hybrid technology such as plugin options. Electric alone will exceed those mpg standards.
 
So I guess they will end up with a ton of cars that look like the insight and pruis, and then reclassify everything else as a suv to get around the vehicles that don't make the cut.
 
Atty said:
Can't we just pay a premium and have our HP and be damned with economy?
Click to expand...

Yes. Failure to meet CAFE standards simply results in a fine for the automakers. Companies like BMW and Porsche have been been choosing to just pay the fine for many years now because they make much more money by marketing powerful cars and paying the fine than they would marketing efficient cars and not paying the fine. They just pass the amount of the fine on to their customers.

ZV
 
It can't be that hard. It's pretty easy to find small diesel autos in Europe that do 50+ combined. They're not as fun to drive as something with 300 hp but obviously the days of average people being able to afford high hp vehicles are coming to a close.
 
Dman8777 said:
It can't be that hard. It's pretty easy to find small diesel autos in Europe that do 50+ combined. They're not as fun to drive as something with 300 hp but obviously the days of average people being able to afford high hp vehicles are coming to a close.
Click to expand...

As long as the used car market remains alive, (relatively) inexpensive high horsepower cars will still happen 😀
 
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