Discussion 2024 USA Election Thread: Biden and Dems might have problems in 2024 swing states - The Gaza Issue

[K1052]

I just don't get why people think this is Biden's fault. There's this other rest of the world that's dealing with inflation also, but not as well as this country.

Somebody told me yesterday Trump will win because we have the same problem as Argentina (where inflation is 140%). I think I would not expend much effort on telling people that they are horrifically wrong and instead try to make them angry about actual Trump policy proposals.

 

[Fenixgoon]

One of my coworkers complained about the cost of housing being high and attributed to Biden. Yes of course the president can personally dictate the housing market. Sigh...
(It was a passing comment and it wasn't worth debating)

 

[woolfe9998]

I don't think telling people the economy is good (which by the metrics is true) so they should be happy is a productive political message and I don't think I've ever claimed it was.

I'd redirect their dissatisfaction onto Republicans who not only don't give a fuck about them but who will give huge tax cuts again to companies that have been gouging them.

You realize that they can tell people the economy is good and criticize Trump and the GOP at the same time, right? Those strategies are not mutually exclusive. The problem with not countering the narrative about inflation is that you are tacitly conceding an invalid point. You're correct about how people irrationally view inflation, but not making your case on the economy will harm you more than making the best case you can.

So far as the overall election strategy, it is casting the GOP and Trump as enemies of abortion rights, and as enemies of democracy, which they are.

 

[nakedfrog]

One of my coworkers complained about the cost of housing being high and attributed to Biden. Yes of course the president can personally dictate the housing market. Sigh...
(It was a passing comment and it wasn't worth debating)

I'm sure the increase of housing costs between 2017-2021 were Obama's fault too.

 

[K1052]

You realize that they can tell people the economy is good and criticize Trump and the GOP at the same time, right? Those strategies are not mutually exclusive. The problem with not countering the narrative about inflation is that you are tacitly conceding an invalid point. You're correct about how people irrationally view inflation, but not making your case on the economy will harm you more than making the best case you can.

So far as the overall election strategy, it is casting the GOP and Trump as enemies of abortion rights, and as enemies of democracy, which they are.

They've spent like $50M in ads trying to tell people the economy is good and gotten bupkis for it. Like I think maybe you note the low unemployment but are better off attacking the Rs on tax policy for companies they'll let gouge people even more.

 

[K1052]

One of my coworkers complained about the cost of housing being high and attributed to Biden. Yes of course the president can personally dictate the housing market. Sigh...
(It was a passing comment and it wasn't worth debating)

Dark Brandon is so powerful he made the US underbuild housing for decades.

That most of the country can't pull its head out of its ass and simply agree to build more I don't expect this to improve a lot no matter who is in office. Oh and if people don't like what things cost now try when Trump deports 8-10M people out of the workforce. Good luck with that.

 

[woolfe9998]

They've spent like $50M in ads trying to tell people the economy is good and gotten bupkis for it. Like I think maybe you note the low unemployment but are better off attacking the Rs on tax policy for companies they'll let gouge people even more.

That isn't much money. They'll spend more later. And polling right now doesn't mean much.

I think they need a full throated defense of Biden's economic policies, going all the way to the election.

So far as attacks on Trump and the GOP, obviously I agree. They should and will be attacked on all fronts. They are scum and the electorate needs to be informed of this fact.

 

[manly]

LOL, telling people shit's even worse in the UK isn't going to make them feel any better. It's like the old cliche, the buck stops with the President. I like what @K1052 said, that we need to clearly present the choice between economic (and social) policies to voters and explain why Repubs have been bad for the middle class. Keep hammering and if the voters never come around and get it, then god help us all. But telling them everybody had to deal with 9% inflation a year ago isn't gonna calm any nerves. Or telling them that Bidenomics smells like roses clearly isn't working.

The NYT calls it The Great Disconnect. U.S. adults tell pollsters one thing about the national economy, but are still spending like drunken soldiers. So we experienced 4.8% annualized GDP growth in Q3. I don't agree with the tone of this tweet, but I wanted to link the NYT article.

https://x.com/Acedian/status/1727003511907663884?s=20

 

[Pens1566]

The problem with the facts is that they're complicated and require a basic understanding of how the world works. Something that the majority of the electorate in this country just doesn't understand. If you try to describe the actual situation using facts/numbers/policy/theory, you'll just get yelled at for being an elite wonk and no one that you actually need to reach will be convinced.

Have to dumb it down somehow. Which is what GQP is excellent at right now.

 

[manly]

The problem with the facts is that they're complicated and require a basic understanding of how the world works. Something that the majority of the electorate in this country just doesn't understand. If you try to describe the actual situation using facts/numbers/policy/theory, you'll just get yelled at for being an elite wonk and no one that you actually need to reach will be convinced.

Have to dumb it down somehow. Which is what GQP is excellent at right now.

It's funny when many of us Democratic voters here have been called ivory tower elitist wonks. When in reality, we're just disconnected ATOT multi millionaires who still read the newspaper.

 

[pmv]

I just don't get why people think this is Biden's fault. There's this other rest of the world that's dealing with inflation also, but not as well as this country.

Yup. I have no idea how bad it is over there, but it's still horrendous here. I reckon it's worse here than most places not just because of the government right now, but because of the effect of the last 13 years of this government, and probably the 40 years of a neo-liberal consensus.

Neo-liberalism, Thatcherism, whatever you call it, clearly didn't work, as we seem to be right back to where we were in 1979 - inflation, declining living-standards, and sclerotic growth. What was the point of all that strife and pain?

 

[fskimospy]

Yup. I have no idea how bad it is over there, but it's still horrendous here. I reckon it's worse here than most places not just because of the government right now, but because of the effect of the last 13 years of this government, and probably the 40 years of a neo-liberal consensus.

Neo-liberalism, Thatcherism, whatever you call it, clearly didn't work, as we seem to be right back to where we were in 1979 - inflation, declining living-standards, and sclerotic growth. What was the point of all that strife and pain?

It’s around 3% here and tending down. It’s possible inflation turns negative month over month here on the next report due to falling gas prices.

 

[IronWing]

Yup. I have no idea how bad it is over there, but it's still horrendous here. I reckon it's worse here than most places not just because of the government right now, but because of the effect of the last 13 years of this government, and probably the 40 years of a neo-liberal consensus.

Neo-liberalism, Thatcherism, whatever you call it, clearly didn't work, as we seem to be right back to where we were in 1979 - inflation, declining living-standards, and sclerotic growth. What was the point of all that strife and pain?

Here's your answer:

Equality Trust Finds a 1000% Increase in Billionaire Wealth - Equality Trust

Today, The Equality Trust releases Billionaire Britain 2022: Inequality from the top down. This briefing demonstrates how, over the last four decades, changes to the UK economy have consistently funnelled wealth upwards to the very wealthy, to the detriment of the rest of us – starkly...

equalitytrust.org.uk

 

[Fenixgoon]

Here's your answer:
View attachment 89218

Equality Trust Finds a 1000% Increase in Billionaire Wealth - Equality Trust

Today, The Equality Trust releases Billionaire Britain 2022: Inequality from the top down. This briefing demonstrates how, over the last four decades, changes to the UK economy have consistently funnelled wealth upwards to the very wealthy, to the detriment of the rest of us – starkly...

equalitytrust.org.uk

According to this link, in the US it went from 240B in 1990 to 4,180B (4.18T) in 2021. Huzzah.

https://americansfortaxfairness.org/billionaires/

 

[Zorba]

Keep quadrupling down on stupid. At least your economic bad takes aren't as morally bankrupt as your Gaza bombing policy.


We're not referring to the Donald Trump school of tax avoidance. For tens of millions of American homeowners, home equity has shot up sharply since the Great Recession. Only a moron would say that's bad for the primary residence homeowners.

Note I'm not saying home price appreciation is always good. You certainly want to avoid the 2003-2006 fraud-induced bubble. And obviously people's rising net worth has not alleviated their anger over hot inflation over the past few years.

High house value doesn't actually help anyone except people significantly downsizing or moving to a lower COL area. If you move, everything else around you will also have inflated. But now your taxes, interest, and insurance are much higher. When you sell or buy your fees are much higher. I'd much rather my house value never go up as long as every other house in the area also stayed flat.

High house prices are great for old people selling out of the market, or the children of dead old people that get to liquidate their house.

 

[pmv]

High house value doesn't actually help anyone except people significantly downsizing or moving to a lower COL area. If you move, everything else around you will also have inflated. But now your taxes, interest, and insurance are much higher. When you sell or buy your fees are much higher. I'd much rather my house value never go up as long as every other house in the area also stayed flat.

High house prices are great for old people selling out of the market, or the children of dead old people that get to liquidate their house.

Yeah, objectively it seems the only winners are estate agents, who, for some weird reason, get paid more if house prices are higher, even though the work they do is exactly the same.

It benefits those moving away from high-house-price areas to lower ones, but that's a very mixed bag, because it's a one-way journey - you probably will never be able to afford to return. And it means being essentially a 'migrant', resented by the locals in your new area for driving up _their_ house prices out of the range their children can afford.

Massively-uneven house prices are a huge impediment to labour mobility and hence reduce productivity.

 

[woolfe9998]

Home value appreciation is great here in CA, where your property taxes don't go up as the value rises. And still doesn't go up if you pass it on to your children. It's why we will never get rid of prop 13 and also why so many people don't seem to want any more houses built here in spite of us desperately needing it.

 

[Zorba]

Home value appreciation is great here in CA, where your property taxes don't go up as the value rises. And still doesn't go up if you pass it on to your children. It's why we will never get rid of prop 13 and also why so many people seem don't seem to want any more houses built here in spite of us desperately needing it.

As long as you're okay living in the same house you're entire life. As soon as you move, you're fucked.

 

[fskimospy]

Home value appreciation is great here in CA, where your property taxes don't go up as the value rises. And still doesn't go up if you pass it on to your children. It's why we will never get rid of prop 13 and also why so many people seem don't seem to want any more houses built here in spite of us desperately needing it.

And then they are like ‘why are there so many homeless people around?’

 

[pmv]

I mean, maybe a possible strategy for the UK is to let house prices rip - drive them as high as possible. Then, when every last one-bedroom flat is valued at several million pounds, we sell the whole country to foreigners (or the Pentagon? For a literal 'Airstrip One') and buy somewhere nicer with better weather (could we buy France? New Zealand maybe? Italy's depopulating, I hear, maybe that would be a nice 'fixer-upper'?)

 

[woolfe9998]

As long as you're okay living in the same house you're entire life. As soon as you move, you're fucked.

Try renting here. That's where you're really screwed.

 

[fskimospy]

I mean, maybe a possible strategy for the UK is to let house prices rip - drive them as high as possible. Then, when every last one-bedroom flat is valued at several million pounds, we sell the whole country to foreigners (or the Pentagon? For a literal 'Airstrip One') and buy somewhere nicer with better weather (could we buy France? New Zealand maybe? Italy's depopulating, I hear, maybe that would be a nice 'fixer-upper'?)

What’s sad is I’m not sure people wouldn’t choose that as opposed to more housing construction.

At least the neighborhood character of Airstrip One would be preserved.

 

[K1052]

And then they are like ‘why are there so many homeless people around?’

Here in SD like 2/3rds of the SRO unit inventory got redeveloped due to housing price pressure and some people can't comprehend why there are a bunch of people in tents. The city is finally moving to allow new SROs to be built with some public subsidy because the alternative is clearly much worse.

 

[Brainonska511]

As long as you're okay living in the same house you're entire life. As soon as you move, you're fucked.

If I recall, you can transfer the exemption to a new home if you stay in state per a more recent proposition, and an attempt to encourage downsizing.

 

[dlerious]

Were you one of those people claiming we were in a recession all during Biden's term when we were not. Recession was one of those lying talking points spread by Fox.

Since when did Muslims become public enemy #1 in this country? I suggest you confer with all our intelligence agencies and see who the #1 domestic terrorist threat is.

For specific Muslims like Osama bin laden, it was 2001.