2020 census to include citizenship question

[glenn1]

The short form is the one sent to 85% of people so for the vast majority it was removed. It's misleading to argue otherwise. The ACS is not used for apportionment of political power so what they include on that is irrelevant to what's on the census.

Life is all about not being able to get what we want. For example I would prefer that we came up with a sane immigration and guest worker policy.

I personally don't care if it's included on the census and if you were actually honest I don't think you do either if you stripped out your political considerations (which are completely transparent). If you had an actual concern for illegal immigrants then you'd oppose the question being on the ACS also for the same reasons. If there's a policy reason to ask it on the ACS then there's likewise a policy reason to ask it on the census. If we need to increase the reach of the ACS beyond it's current ~15% ish (using your numbers) then do so. Hell do away with the census and make everyone do the ACS if that makes you happy and you have no issue about the citizenship question on that survey.

 

[fskimospy]

I personally don't care if it's included on the census and if you were actually honest I don't think you do either if you stripped out your political considerations (which are completely transparent).

Yes, clearly the person who wants the census to be accurate is the person who has political considerations, lol. How diabolical of me.

If you had an actual concern for illegal immigrants then you'd oppose the question being on the ACS also for the same reasons. If there's a policy reason to ask it on the ACS then there's likewise a policy reason to ask it on the census.

Don't be ridiculous, that makes zero sense. The ACS and the census have dramatically different goals so of course a policy reason in the ACS doesn't necessarily translate over to a policy reason for the census.

If we need to increase the reach of the ACS beyond it's current ~15% ish (using your numbers) then do so. Hell do away with the census and make everyone do the ACS if that makes you happy and you have no issue about the citizenship question on that survey.

I have no idea why we would do that, it sounds like spectacularly bad policy. You can't make anyone fill out anything and the longer you make something the lower the response rate gets. This would badly damage the census so I'm going to have to decline.

 

[ivwshane]

I personally don't care if it's included on the census and if you were actually honest I don't think you do either if you stripped out your political considerations (which are completely transparent). If you had an actual concern for illegal immigrants then you'd oppose the question being on the ACS also for the same reasons. If there's a policy reason to ask it on the ACS then there's likewise a policy reason to ask it on the census. If we need to increase the reach of the ACS beyond it's current ~15% ish (using your numbers) then do so. Hell do away with the census and make everyone do the ACS if that makes you happy and you have no issue about the citizenship question on that survey.

God damn you people are stupid!

We oppose the question on the census because it will lead to a less accurate census. We don't oppose the ACS because it's not constitutionally mandated to count every person.

This has nothing to do with politics other than you dumb asses making it about politics. Hell, the past few presidents and census administrators, from both parties, all agreed that the question shouldn't be asked because it would lead to an inaccurate count.


Why do you guys hate this country and the constitution?

 

[Jhhnn]

It's been on the "long form" census all that time until that was effectively replaced by the American Community Survey where it remained until 2010. Saying "it was removed" is as misleading as saying capital gains were removed from IRS Form 1040-EZ while ignoring it's still on other 1040 forms. And personally the means I'd prefer that "return rates" were depressed is via deportation rather than non-response.

So, uhh, you want to count them in the census as if we've already deported them, or what?

Reminds me of Kelyanne's alternative facts. While the citizenship question was on the short form in 1950 it was only on the long form thru 2000. It's not like the Trump Admin is bringing back the long form for 15% of households, either, but rather is asking the question of every household, a practice abandoned in 1950.

Strictly speaking, then, the Trump administration isn’t “reinstating” the citizenship question. They’re calling for it to be added to the short form that will be mailed to every American household in 2020.

It won’t be the first time people are required to divulge their citizenship status on a U.S. census form, but it will be the first time since 1950 that everyone is required to do so.

https://www.snopes.com/news/2018/04/02/census-stop-asking-citizenship/

If the long form led to some under counting of illegals, which seems likely, then putting the question on every form will likely lead to even greater error. It seems obvious that is the intent of the Trump Admin.

Going post-truth is no way to run a government.

 

[Moonbeam]

Not only that but we know the effects because their testing/sampling they do, of which I linked to earlier in this thread.

That doesn't matter. What matters is this by OutHouse:

Translation: The left wants to help criminals. It took me awhile to come to that conclusion, but once I did everything they do makes sense. The left isn't soft on crime, they are allied with it.

The conservative mindset has at its core the aim of resisting evil, not real evil, of course, but the evil inculcated by irrational bigotry. It's just like racism, the notion of superiority sustained by the fact one was told and has accepted the notion some other race is inferior. The blind can see only what the fear of threat demanded they see. It's why conservatives herd. They were infected by group think, the inability to differentiate between authority that deserves respect and and authority that doesn't. The bigot unquestionably accepts. Questions open them to painful uncertainty, the potential realization of what they really are, that they themselves are the thing they fear.

 

[Jhhnn]

Yes, clearly the person who wants the census to be accurate is the person who has political considerations, lol. How diabolical of me.

Kee-rist. The GOP can't have the truth driving policy. It would destroy them. They need alternative truth to drive the agenda of the Lootocracy.

 

[DarthKyrie]

so back to the question. Why does Canada ask the citizenship question on its census?

So we should have single payer healthcare like Canada as well (I hope so)? If not why should we only follow Canada's lead when it comes to asking about citizenship?

 

[Svnla]

Let see what other countries would do with their "undocumented" immigrants =

http://abcnews.go.com/International...eekers-sparks-protests-fear/story?id=54097368

 

[Jhhnn]

Let see what other countries would do with their "undocumented" immigrants =

http://abcnews.go.com/International...eekers-sparks-protests-fear/story?id=54097368

So what? That has nothing to do with the US census.

 

[Svnla]

So what? That has nothing to do with the US census.

That's how a sovereign nation would do with "undocumented" as the topic of "undocumented/non citizens" was discussed several times in this thread. Why can't the US do the same?

Funny how you and other liberals would not dare to pull the "but..but..but. this country and.so and so did this and that" when it fits to your agenda of anti 2A but nothing here, eh?

 

[Jhhnn]

That's how a sovereign nation would do with "undocumented" as the topic of "undocumented/not citizens" was discussed several times in this thread.

Funny how you and other liberals would not dare to pull the "but..but..but. this country and.so and so did this and that" to suit your agenda of anti 2A but nothing here, eh?

2A doesn't have anything to do with the census, either.

 

[Svnla]

2A doesn't have anything to do with the census, either.

Let me spell it out for you.

If the US has the balls (as other sovereign countries on Earth are doing now to the "undocumented") to do what it needs to be done, then we would not have that freaking huge "undocumented" problem, then the citizenship question on the census would be a moot point (see the poster above about Canada question about citizenship on the census).

Speaking of Canada, eh? - http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-canadian-envoy-tps-20180129-story.html

 

[Jhhnn]

Let me spell it out for you.

If the US has the balls (as other sovereign countries on Earth are doing now to the "undocumented") to do what it needs to be done, then we would not have that freaking huge "undocumented" problem, then the citizenship question on the census would be a moot point (see the poster above about Canada question about citizenship).

Speaking of Canada, eh? - http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-canadian-envoy-tps-20180129-story.html

Except that doesn't have anything to do with reality, either. It's just one of your little fantasies.

The Constitution demands that we do our best to count everybody living in this country. Period. I think we need to do that w/o scaring anybody off if we want to be honest about it. It's the law & it's the right thing to do.

 

[Svnla]

Except that doesn't have anything to do with reality, either. It's just one of your little fantasies.

The Constitution demands that we do our best to count everybody living in this country. Period. I think we need to do that w/o scaring anybody off if we want to be honest about it. It's the law & it's the right thing to do.

If you haven't done anything "undocumented" then why would you be scared about? I was stopped recently because of a DUI checkpoint, I did not drink and have all of my papers, I was not scared at all but I bet any drunks or idiots without insurance would be scared very much that night.

The right thing to do is everyone should follow ALL rules and laws, not just pick and choose the one(s) they like and if they are caught because of their "undocumented" activities then they should accept the consequences and not whine about it.

 

[Moonbeam]

Kee-rist. The GOP can't have the truth driving policy. It would destroy them. They need alternative truth to drive the agenda of the Lootocracy.

Conservatives are bigots, people whose sense of self worth comes from being morally superior to other people. all of which makes them assholes. I don't feature them relishing seeing that. And the people who manipulate those repugnant human characteristics for political gain would not, I suspect, relish the the thought they might have exposure to ideas that would free them.

 

[Jhhnn]

If you haven't done anything "undocumented" then why would you be scared about?

The right thing to do is everyone should follow ALL rules and laws, not just pick and choose the one(s) they like and if they are caught because of their "undocumented" activities then they should accept the consequences and not whine about it.

So it's OK to do things that inhibit an honest count because... what, exactly? Because an honest count runs contrary to your political ambitions?

Apparently so, and more's the pity. It's profoundly anti-American.

 

[OutHouse]

So we should have single payer healthcare like Canada as well (I hope so)? If not why should we only follow Canada's lead when it comes to asking about citizenship?

not sure why you could even try to link a question about a question on Canadian census form to healthcare in the US.

 

[OutHouse]

Except that doesn't have anything to do with reality, either. It's just one of your little fantasies.

The Constitution demands that we do our best to count everybody living in this country. Period. I think we need to do that w/o scaring anybody off if we want to be honest about it. It's the law & it's the right thing to do.

there you go again, speculating and fear mongering.

 

[OutHouse]

Let me spell it out for you.

If the US has the balls (as other sovereign countries on Earth are doing now to the "undocumented") to do what it needs to be done, then we would not have that freaking huge "undocumented" problem, then the citizenship question on the census would be a moot point (see the poster above about Canada question about citizenship on the census).

Speaking of Canada, eh? - http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-canadian-envoy-tps-20180129-story.html

/sarcasm/ what a bunch of racist canucks. guess they want to keep Canada white.

He said that Canada is "an open country" and a nation of immigrants. But, he stressed, immigrating to the country needs to be done legally.

"You can't just come to Canada and cross the border and stay there the rest of your life," he said. "We want to avoid a humanitarian crisis along the border."

 

[Jhhnn]

there you go again, speculating and fear mongering.

The fear mongering originates in the White House. I'm not trying to scare anybody off but they obviously are.

My advice to illegals is to stand up & be counted. Don't let 'em scare you. The information won't be used against you despite what the Trump Admin & their allies intimate.

 

[Jhhnn]

/sarcasm/ what a bunch of racist canucks. guess they want to keep Canada white.

I'm sure that they're tickled pink at Trump making our problem their problem too. Totally thrilled.

 

[Moonbeam]

Svnla: If you haven't done anything "undocumented" then why would you be scared about?

M: Right, fear is such a rational thing. What a daft argument.

S: The right thing to do is everyone should follow ALL rules and laws, not just pick and choose the one(s) they like and if they are caught because of their "undocumented" activities then they should accept the consequences and not whine about it.

M: Right, let's follow all the rules and count everybody living here based on the constitution without going into their legal status since the constitution didn't address that issue. It's the numbers the constitution wants for constitutionally mandated population number related laws.

 

[OutHouse]

I'm sure that they're tickled pink at Trump making our problem their problem too. Totally thrilled.

STFU Donnie.

 

[Jhhnn]

STFU Donnie.

Awww... You're so cute when you're petulant.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

https://www.census.gov/2010census/about/constitutional.php

The U.S. Constitution empowers the Congress to carry out the census in "such manner as they shall by Law direct" (Article I, Section 2)

It's not just about population anymore. The times they are a-changin'.