2016 Miata - R&T First Drive

[Imported]

We're seriously considering a used NC Miata in the next few months (trying to keep it under 15k).. but all the reviews really make me want to just buy a new ND.. ugh.

 

[996GT2]

Why did Mazda tune the 2.0L engine to only make 155hp? I know the Miata isn't about straight-line speed, but it seems like they put a very conservative tune on the engine in order to get such low hp numbers.

Honda managed to get 185hp out of the 1.6 liter B16 two decades ago, before fancy technologies like gasoline direct injection existed. So what's stopping Mazda from getting at least 180hp out of a 2 liter engine in 2015?

 

[brainhulk]

Why did Mazda tune the 2.0L engine to only make 155hp? I know the Miata isn't about straight-line speed, but it seems like they put a very conservative tune on the engine in order to get such low hp numbers.

Honda managed to get 185hp out of the 1.6 liter B16 two decades ago, before fancy technologies like gasoline direct injection existed. So what's stopping Mazda from getting at least 180hp out of a 2 liter engine in 2015?

You have to leave overhead for the mid cycle refresh :biggrin:

 

[pauldun170]

Why did Mazda tune the 2.0L engine to only make 155hp? I know the Miata isn't about straight-line speed, but it seems like they put a very conservative tune on the engine in order to get such low hp numbers.

Honda managed to get 185hp out of the 1.6 liter B16 two decades ago, before fancy technologies like gasoline direct injection existed. So what's stopping Mazda from getting at least 180hp out of a 2 liter engine in 2015?

Grunt and accessibility.
All reviews indicate that the 2.0 works well in the Miata.

 

[996GT2]

Grunt and accessibility.
All reviews indicate that the 2.0 works well in the Miata.

But the ND Miata lost 12hp compared to the previous-gen Miata, which also used a 2 liter inline-4.

The weight savings over the previous gen is great and all, but putting in a less powerful engine at the same time? It's not like it's difficult to get 180-200hp out of a 2-liter engine these days.

 

[pauldun170]

But the ND Miata lost 12hp compared to the previous-gen Miata, which also used a 2 liter inline-4.

The weight savings over the previous gen is great and all, but putting in a less powerful engine at the same time? It's not like it's difficult to get 180-200hp out of a 2-liter engine these days.

Lost HP but gained torque and apparently the car has gained from that.
You are asking why a small manufacturer with limited resources doesn't churn out an engine comparable to a peaky motor with no bottom end from yesteryear that doesn't meet current US regulations?

What current 2.0 or less NA engine would have been a choice? One that offer comparable power deliver (no peaky motors) and MPG?

According to writeups, power delivery is better that the old motor and the car is faster. Why should anyone care what the peak HP numbers are?
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7180511-2016-ND-Miata-2-0L-reviews-are-rolling-out

 

[Imported]

Jalopnik said the engine pulls well to redline.. and could probably go another 1000RPM.

And that’s paired with the Skyactiv 2.0, which also sees duty in the Mazda3 and CX-5. In those cars, it’s nothing special and rather slow. That isn’t the case in the Miata. Thanks to a new manifold and a lighter flywheel, the character of the little 155 horsepower/148 pound foot engine is totally transformed. It pulls strong up to redline, and I think it could go for another 1,000 RPM. Mid range is where it’s happiest, with the biggest pulls from low down until about 5,000 RPM. It makes the engine in the NC seem anemic and lethargic.

http://jalopnik.com/the-2016-mazda-miata-will-save-the-sports-car-1707333736

 

[996GT2]

You are asking why a small manufacturer with limited resources doesn't churn out an engine comparable to a peaky motor with no bottom end from yesteryear that doesn't meet current US regulations?

What current 2.0 or less NA engine would have been a choice? One that offer comparable power deliver (no peaky motors) and MPG?

K20A from the 2013 Civic Si would have been perfect for this car. It was enough to hustle the FWD, 3000 lb Civic Si from 0-60 in 6.1 seconds. Combined with the much lighter Miata chassis, it would have made for a very exciting car. The 2.0L flat-4 from the current BRZ also makes 200hp and has more torque than the ND Miata. Your claim that Mazda's lack of resources prevents them from developing a more powerful engine is unfounded. It is really not that difficult to get 200hp out of a 2 liter NA engine in 2015!

And I really don't understand your remark about "no peaky motors". Who cares? Many great sports cars have peaky motors. the S2000 instantly comes to mind. I for one don't want a boring family sedan engine in a sports car.

 

[pauldun170]

K20A from the 2013 Civic Si would have been perfect for this car. It was enough to hustle the FWD, 3000 lb Civic Si from 0-60 in 6.1 seconds. Combined with the much lighter Miata chassis, it would have made for a very exciting car. The 2.0L flat-4 from the current BRZ also makes 200hp and has more torque than the ND Miata. Your claim that Mazda's lack of resources prevents them from developing a more powerful engine is unfounded. It is really not that difficult to get 200hp out of a 2 liter NA engine in 2015!

And I really don't understand your remark about "no peaky motors". Who cares? Many great sports cars have peaky motors. the S2000 instantly comes to mind. I for one don't want a boring family sedan engine in a sports car.

You want a peaky motor (which the old Honda 2.0 is)
Mazda put something with more torque in Miata.
For a road car meant for accessible performance on public, twisty roads Mazda went with a more accessible power curve.

S2000 is the perfect example of the peak vs flexiblilty.
There is more to sports cars than banging off the rev limiter on public roads

 

[Imported]

K20A from the 2013 Civic Si would have been perfect for this car. It was enough to hustle the FWD, 3000 lb Civic Si from 0-60 in 6.1 seconds. Combined with the much lighter Miata chassis, it would have made for a very exciting car. The 2.0L flat-4 from the current BRZ also makes 200hp and has more torque than the ND Miata. Your claim that Mazda's lack of resources prevents them from developing a more powerful engine is unfounded. It is really not that difficult to get 200hp out of a 2 liter NA engine in 2015!

And I really don't understand your remark about "no peaky motors". Who cares? Many great sports cars have peaky motors. the S2000 instantly comes to mind. I for one don't want a boring family sedan engine in a sports car.

But the new Miata is already faster than the BRZ/FRS. Many a "sports car" had/have family sedan engines.

 

[996GT2]

But the new Miata is already faster than the BRZ/FRS.

Is it? I haven't seen concrete 0-60 numbers on the new Miata yet.

US-spec Miata will weigh around 2300 lbs, so 2500 lbs with a 200-pound driver = 16.1 lb per hp

BR-Z weighs 3000 lbs with a 200-pound driver = 15 lb per hp

I'm not disagreeing that the new Miata is brilliant, I just think it could have been even better if they provided the option of a more powerful engine.

 

[pauldun170]

But the new Miata is already faster than the BRZ/FRS. Many a "sports car" had/have family sedan engines.

A Miata with a lowly econobox engine tuned for torque is significantly faster and livelier throughout the rev range than its competitor with significantly more HP. Looks like Mazda spent their money in the right place vs "fix it with HP and a new look".

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/convertibles/1506_2016_mazda_mx_5_vs_2015_subaru_brz_comparison/

 

[pauldun170]

Is it? I haven't seen concrete 0-60 numbers on the new Miata yet.

US-spec Miata will weigh around 2300 lbs, so 2500 lbs with a 200-pound driver = 16.1 lb per hp

BR-Z weighs 3000 lbs with a 200-pound driver = 15 lb per hp

I'm not disagreeing that the new Miata is brilliant, I just think it could have been even better if they provided the option of a more powerful engine.

Acceleration numbers of the Miata are all over the internet.

For example

Boxster:
$53,000
2.7L flat-6: 265 hp @ 6700 rpms, 207 lb-ft torque @ 4500 rpms
2900 lbs
0-60 in 5.6 seconds
1.01 g
20/30

Miata:
$26,000
2.0L inline-4: 155 hp @ 6000 rpms, 148 lb-ft torque @ 4600 rpms
2300 lbs
0-60 in 5.8 seconds
0.97 g
27/34

Read more: http://forums.motortrend.com/70/970...mparison-test-goes-0/index.html#ixzz3bwL4wusL
​

 

[Sulaco]

Is it? I haven't seen concrete 0-60 numbers on the new Miata yet.

US-spec Miata will weigh around 2300 lbs, so 2500 lbs with a 200-pound driver = 16.1 lb per hp

BR-Z weighs 3000 lbs with a 200-pound driver = 15 lb per hp

I'm not disagreeing that the new Miata is brilliant, I just think it could have been even better if they provided the option of a more powerful engine.

Yes. It is. Road and Track and Car & Driver have both released "concrete" times, putting it at 5.8 and 5.9 seconds to 60.

It's faster than both the previous gen and the BRZ.

 

[slugg]

Okay, the Miata has my attention again. But buying a new car is such a bad financial decision. Hmm... What to do!?

 

[Viper GTS]

Okay, the Miata has my attention again. But buying a new car is such a bad financial decision. Hmm... What to do!?

Yes but on a $25k car you're going to eat what, $15k if you keep it five years? If somebody offered to rent you the car for $3k a year would you do it?

It's a much bigger issue when you're talking about a $100k car and buying them every few years. Buying one $25k car is probably not going to kill you.

Viper GTS

 

[Excelsior]

K20A from the 2013 Civic Si would have been perfect for this car. It was enough to hustle the FWD, 3000 lb Civic Si from 0-60 in 6.1 seconds. Combined with the much lighter Miata chassis, it would have made for a very exciting car. The 2.0L flat-4 from the current BRZ also makes 200hp and has more torque than the ND Miata. Your claim that Mazda's lack of resources prevents them from developing a more powerful engine is unfounded. It is really not that difficult to get 200hp out of a 2 liter NA engine in 2015!

And I really don't understand your remark about "no peaky motors". Who cares? Many great sports cars have peaky motors. the S2000 instantly comes to mind. I for one don't want a boring family sedan engine in a sports car.

I own an S2000 and I get this car. If that doesn't say enough, I don't know what will.

The Miata engineers have done a fantastic job. This is the only logical replacement for a S2000 that isn't looking for more power, size, or in a higher price bracket.

I honestly don't consider my S2000 that quick. Even my 3500lb VW Passat with its 1.8t felt more powerful because torx.

 

[Insomniator]

Why are people complaining about a sub 6s 0-60? I'm sure this thing is a hell of a lot of fun to drive. No doubt most people complaining about the power have never even been on a track before.

If you are worried about being 'burned' by minivans on the street #1. Grow up and #2. That's not going to happen anyway.

If you still can't help yourself then go buy a Mustang and do burnouts at every red light and on ramp like all the big tough cool guys do.

 

[Brian Stirling]

An engine tuned and optimized for max power will tend to be faster when driven as a race car at full throttle and near the rev limit but when driving on public roads, even when driving briskly, an engine with less power but more usable power will own the max power car.

Yes, if the Miata was tuned and optimized for 200hp it will be faster at WOT and should handle the 1/4 mile faster than the same car with 155hp, but in everyday driving the 155hp car will tend to feel quicker and will be more practical.

Lastly, a 2.0L engine tuned for 200hp will be unlikely to provide as high a mpg as the 155hp engine for a couple reasons: first, the engine itself will tend to consume more fuel at the same rpm; and second, if you need to operate at higher rpm to accelerate it will consume still more fuel. Remember, car makers still need to improve fleet mileage...


Brian

 

[slugg]

Why is the fuel economy so bad, relative to the Mazda 3? Considering it's a lighter car, uses premium fuel, and gets the same amount of power, I just don't get it.

 

[thedarkwolf]

I'm just assuming gearing.

 

[Demo24]

Why is the fuel economy so bad, relative to the Mazda 3? Considering it's a lighter car, uses premium fuel, and gets the same amount of power, I just don't get it.

Miatas always seem to have poor mpg numbers for what they are, and I can only assume its due to gearing.

There is some speculation that the HP numbers are on regular fuel and may slightly improve with premium.

 

[pauldun170]

I'm just assuming gearing.

Miatas always seem to have poor mpg numbers for what they are, and I can only assume its due to gearing.

There is some speculation that the HP numbers are on regular fuel and may slightly improve with premium.

Going with gearing.

 

[JCH13]

Miatas always seem to have poor mpg numbers for what they are, and I can only assume its due to gearing.

There is some speculation that the HP numbers are on regular fuel and may slightly improve with premium.

Their aero profile, being a convertible, is garbage. Lots of aerodynamic drag compared to a hardtop car of similar size.