2015 GT-R Nismo vs. 2015 Corvette Z06 at Willow Springs!

[Subyman]

Paper racing doesn't translate so well to the real world, that's why.

As you allude to, the secret sauce with the GTR is how exhaustively the engineers tweaked all of the electronic doodads to ensure that every last iota of power and grip are applied to the track at exactly the right places. Perhaps if a robot were driving the Z06, it would be faster than the GTR. But that GTR makes any driver into a hero.

A hero with a handful of speeding tickets I'd take the Z06 with its burble.

 

[Ferzerp]

Ahh, we finally get an answer for why the Z06 performed poorly in this comparison, and the vette is being re-run by motortrend.

http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-motor-trend-2015-z06-vs-2015-gt-r-nismo.html

(Tadge is the lead engineer for Corvettes)

 

[Jimzz]

haha "Nissan was using octane booster"

 

[crashtech]

The Vette just sounds so much better than the Nismo. Mostly because V8s just sound rad, but I've heard way better sounding sixes. Could be that Nissan engineers just didn't care about that aesthetic, or is there something inherent to the VQ that just make it sound ugly?

 

[996GT2]

haha "Nissan was using octane booster"

Not really unfair if they were testing in CA, since they only get 91 octane up there. The octane booster probably takes it closer to the 93 octane available in the rest of the country.

 

[crashtech]

Completely fair would have been fueling the vehicles with the same stuff, whatever was agreed upon. But I doubt it would have made a difference. Pobst was clearly less comfortable in the Vette. Even for a pro, the Nismo is obviously a lot more confidence inspiring.

 

[AMCRambler]

Completely fair would have been fueling the vehicles with the same stuff, whatever was agreed upon. But I doubt it would have made a difference. Pobst was clearly less comfortable in the Vette. Even for a pro, the Nismo is obviously a lot more confidence inspiring.

Yeah he definitely pussed out. Stig would have had that car doing ballet!

Not that I could do any better though. You could see it had him nervous as frig in the video.

That said, I think Chevy had their shot and blew it. Nissan keeps the crown.

 

[MagickMan]

??? The 918 has the production car record, followed by the P1, and then, gasp, the Viper. I saw the video of the Viper run and he really wanted it to do well and beat the living hell out of it. I would have sh*t my pants if I'd been on the passenger seat for that lap, he had no instincts for self-preservation that day.

 

[JCH13]

I find it admirable that GM evaluated the car, found something amiss, and went about correcting it, including developing a new product for their customers (the special suspension tuning parameters). They even didn't sound super-whiny about it either.

Though caster on rear wheels isn't really a thing... that confuses me a bit.

 

[Elganja]

haha "Nissan was using octane booster"

octane booster as a whole is rather useless... you'd have to use a ton of it to make any kind of real impact on octane (caveat if unless they used toluene or torco accelerator, then it will have a real impact)

curious to why MT would allow that regardless... the GTR's factory tuning allows for a dynamic timing curve based on the octane (it will even add a little timing if you put in something higher then 93 in it... nothing substantial though)

 

[Jimzz]

octane booster as a whole is rather useless... you'd have to use a ton of it to make any kind of real impact on octane (caveat if unless they used toluene or torco accelerator, then it will have a real impact)

curious to why MT would allow that regardless... the GTR's factory tuning allows for a dynamic timing curve based on the octane (it will even add a little timing if you put in something higher then 93 in it... nothing substantial though)

Even 1 or so octane can make a decent size difference for cars like the GTR and C7 in long runs.

Even the GM engineer said it would help the Corvette if they had added something to the gas. So Nissan knew what it was doing and I consider that a cheat. Both should have run the same pump gas, no better no worse.

 

[Skurge]

I find it admirable that GM evaluated the car, found something amiss, and went about correcting it, including developing a new product for their customers (the special suspension tuning parameters). They even didn't sound super-whiny about it either.

Though caster on rear wheels isn't really a thing... that confuses me a bit.

Didn't the viper have a similar issue a while ago. I find it strange that they wouldn't check the cars before sending them for reviews.

 

[Elganja]

Even 1 or so octane can make a decent size difference for cars like the GTR and C7 in long runs.

Even the GM engineer said it would help the Corvette if they had added something to the gas. So Nissan knew what it was doing and I consider that a cheat. Both should have run the same pump gas, no better no worse.

it does not make any marginal difference if you went from 91 to 92 octane, not to mention 1 bottle of conventional octane booster is worth maybe 1/10 of a difference in octane. the timing maps from 91 to 93 are actually very similar (i know this for a fact), not sure why they would even bother

if you want to talk about apples to apples, let's let them both run the same tire, instead of one of them running a cup tire

 

[Fenixgoon]

it does not make any marginal difference if you went from 91 to 92 octane, not to mention 1 bottle of conventional octane booster is worth maybe 1/10 of a difference in octane. the timing maps from 91 to 93 are actually very similar (i know this for a fact), not sure why they would even bother

if you want to talk about apples to apples, let's let them both run the same tire, instead of one of them running a cup tire

tires are chosen by the manufacturer and are representative of the production car. using race fuel or otherwise octane-boosted fuel is not representative of manufacturer-specified consumer-grade gasoline.

 

[996GT2]

tires are chosen by the manufacturer and are representative of the production car. using race fuel or otherwise octane-boosted fuel is not representative of manufacturer-specified consumer-grade gasoline.

California gets crappy 91 octane while the rest of the country gets 93+ octane, so I disagree with you there.

 

[madoka]

Ahh, we finally get an answer for why the Z06 performed poorly in this comparison, and the vette is being re-run by motortrend.

http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-motor-trend-2015-z06-vs-2015-gt-r-nismo.html

(Tadge is the lead engineer for Corvettes)

The butthurt in that thread is amazing.

The GTR used a can of octane, so they're calling it a "ringer." LOL

Newsflash: That GT-R cost 50% more than the Z06.

But they're that concerned with a $5 bottle of octane?!?!!?

 

[Vdubchaos]

Does GTR come with a stick shift?

There is your answer.

Few seconds here or there are no big deal, both cars are FAST. Also, any lap time test/results should be done by 5-10 drivers and AVERAGE should be considered.

 

[Jimzz]

The butthurt in that thread is amazing.

The GTR used a can of octane, so they're calling it a "ringer." LOL

Newsflash: That GT-R cost 50% more than the Z06.

But they're that concerned with a $5 bottle of octane?!?!!?

Where do you or others see they used a single over the counter bottle of octane booster? They used enough to adjust the overall octane of the fuel so 1 bottle of retail octane booster will not do that.

For all we know they dumped in 5gallons of "paint thinner".

 

[crashtech]

California gets crappy 91 octane while the rest of the country gets 93+ octane, so I disagree with you there.

Lots of places don't have 93 octane. The cars should have run the same fuel, which would have eliminated that as a point of contention. I don't think it would have made a significant difference in the outcome, aside from maybe giving the Vette's quarter mile time a tiny bump.

 

[Ferzerp]

You guys are hung up on the octane boost. That wasn't the main issue. Randy was complaining about the handling. No other reviewer ever has. The alignment was off causing too much oversteer. That's the take away. You're focused on the wrong thing. It will be interesting to see the time difference for their retest.

 

[YBS1]

We used exactly the same car Motor Trend tested, as well as a second car, an 8 speed automatic. With proper suspension alignment, we saw a marked improvement in handling.

We invited Motor Trend to test the car again with suspension alignments corrected and give us feedback on the new calibration. They are planning a follow up article based on Randy's experience, and since we don't want to "scoop" their story I won’t say specifically what the results were. However, I can say we were very satisfied. Look for it soon!

Reading between the lines, does that sound like to anyone else that the A8 car will probably end up in the follow up article and be the fastest of the three?

 

[Ferzerp]

Reading between the lines, does that sound like to anyone else that the A8 car will probably end up in the follow up article and be the fastest of the three?

Maybe, maybe not. He's flat out said that the A8 can possibly get a couple of faster laps in, but it cannot remain cool enough long enough for very long track sessions. A torque converter automatic with high power in a track environment is never really a good choice. It works great at a strip, but they aren't so good for track time.

 

[jagec]

A hero with a handful of speeding tickets I'd take the Z06 with its burble.

I agree, the Z06 is better looking and better sounding, and since I'm not a racecar driver I'd probably have more fun in it than the GTR.

Plus, the fact that it's slower means that you don't have to agonize about "fun" vs. "quick", and you can just go ahead and get it in manual without feeling the least bit of guilt.

 

[Kelvrick]

I agree, the Z06 is better looking and better sounding, and since I'm not a racecar driver I'd probably have more fun in it than the GTR.

Plus, the fact that it's slower means that you don't have to agonize about "fun" vs. "quick", and you can just go ahead and get it in manual without feeling the least bit of guilt.

As a fellow non-racecar driver, I have to disagree. The GTR will let me have a lot more fun around the track. Seeing as how I'd probably plow the Z06 into a wall sideways/backwards.

 

[Ferzerp]

I'll find out how the Z06 is on track later this month. On the stingray, PTM was phenomenal. Also, the 50/50 weight distribution and extremely neutral handling made it a breeze to drive. 200 more horses, more tire, and some downforce will be interesting to play with.