2012 M5 Will be Automatic Only

[exar333]

http://www.thetorquereport.com/2011/02/next-gen_2012_bmw_m5_to_be_aut.html

 

[punjabiplaya]

I don't see how 99% of that car's ownership/potential buyers will miss a manual.

 

[PricklyPete]

sigh. Let's be honest though, the last M5 basically was automatic only. They only stuck a manual in for the NA market...and it was not a good match.

 

[MotF Bane]

 

[exar333]

The E39 M5 (MT) was seriously a classic and amazing to drive. Interesting that Cadillac is becoming more of a driver's company these days. This makes the CTS-V even more attractive if you want power + MT. Boo...

 

[exdeath]

I don't see the big deal if it's a manual with automatic clutches, that's alot different from a conventional auto (planetary gears and fluid coupling).

Besides the M5 is more a touring car, not a track demon.

 

[punjabiplaya]

The E39 M5 (MT) was seriously a classic and amazing to drive. Interesting that Cadillac is becoming more of a driver's company these days. This makes the CTS-V even more attractive if you want power + MT. Boo...

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=31257121&postcount=36

 

[exar333]

I don't see the big deal if it's a manual with automatic clutches, that's alot different from a conventional auto (planetary gears and fluid coupling).

Besides the M5 is more a touring car, not a track demon.

You don't have to track a car to enjoy a MT.

 

[3chordcharlie]

I don't see the big deal if it's a manual with automatic clutches, that's alot different from a conventional auto (planetary gears and fluid coupling).

Besides the M5 is more a touring car, not a track demon.

"the first M5 that will only be available with an automatic transmission. This means no manual or twin-clutch option will be available."

It's a slushbox.

 

[ShawnD1]

You don't have to track a car to enjoy a MT.

Did you buy a manual because you like manuals or did you buy a manual because you hate automatics?

I just hate automatics. Constant gear hunting, they never knows what gear to be in or what I'm trying to do. Hit the gas a bit too hard and it drops 2 gears then spins the one tire then I lift my foot off the gas and it revs down a little without picking a gear then I touch the gas again and it slams the transmission into third as hard as possible. Fucking automatics suck. If only there was some kind of system where a clutch was not needed but the gears could still be manually selected....

 

[punjabiplaya]

"the first M5 that will only be available with an automatic transmission. This means no manual or twin-clutch option will be available."

It's a slushbox.

yep, it's the 8 speed auto

 

[Pantoot]

No source quoted, no details at all, just

What we are learning now is that the M5 will be the first M5 that will only be available with an automatic transmission.

I think I will wait for something more substantial before I start bemoaning the fate of BMW M.

 

[exar333]

Did you buy a manual because you like manuals or did you buy a manual because you hate automatics?

I just hate automatics. Constant gear hunting, they never knows what gear to be in or what I'm trying to do. Hit the gas a bit too hard and it drops 2 gears then spins the one tire then I lift my foot off the gas and it revs down a little without picking a gear then I touch the gas again and it slams the transmission into third as hard as possible. Fucking automatics suck. If only there was some kind of system where a clutch was not needed but the gears could still be manually selected....

Both. I buy manuals because I like manuals. Automatic transmissions are boring and I will not buy a car that that has one, period. Paddle-shifters are ok, but your kidding yourself that you have a true manual car IMHO.

 

[exar333]

No source quoted, no details at all, just


I think I will wait for something more substantial before I start bemoaning the fate of BMW M.

There are numerous reports of this, it is not just one article. Google it...

 

[Pantoot]

There are numerous reports of this, it is not just one article. Google it...

The news seems to have originated in the States, with motoring website Motor Trend suggesting that, when BMW engineers tried to adapt the Getrag-developed M-DCT twin-clutch transmission, they struggled with the torque of the uprated 4.4-litre twin-turbo V8.

Then you have 500 parrots quoting Motor Trend.

 

[SSSnail]

Automatic? Sheeesh... Give me the good ole days when a man rides around with reign and riding crops. ONE HORSE POWA MOFO!!! Now THAT's selecting your gears. Screw all this advancement in technology crap, you mean I can easily select gears by flipping a switch? I'm a real man, a manly man and as such I demand the ability to row my own gears damn it! I want to be COOL, to be in control of the gears - controlling the car be damned!

I love the manual snobs, really, keep up the good works.

 

[ShawnD1]

Automatic? Sheeesh... Give me the good ole days when a man rides around with reign and riding crops. ONE HORSE POWA MOFO!!! Now THAT's selecting your gears. Screw all this advancement in technology crap, you mean I can easily select gears by flipping a switch? I'm a real man, a manly man and as such I demand the ability to row my own gears damn it! I want to be COOL, to be in control of the gears - controlling the car be damned!

I love the manual snobs, really, keep up the good works.

Maybe they're just passionate about efficiency. My auto crayolla only comes close to my old civic manual's performance if I keep the auto limited to the first 3 gears. Doing that drops gas mileage by 10-20% :\

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...ck-shift-10-08/overview/manual-vs-auto-ov.htm

In your quest for better fuel economy and more value, don't overlook the benefits of a manual transmission. In recent tests, we've found that a stick shift can improve gas mileage by a notable 2 to 5 mpg, compared with an automatic transmission, and can cut a car's price by $800 to $1,200.

Manual transmissions also improve acceleration, sometimes significantly. That can be a welcome benefit with a smaller engine

The link shows a chart of what they found. The cars with manual transmissions had better gas mileage and better acceleration.

 

[PricklyPete]

You don't have to track a car to enjoy a MT.

Actually...if I was buying a track car, I'd rather have something like the Porsche PDK. It is my street car where I just want to enjoy driving where I want that 3rd pedal. This move will only make the E39 more of a classic.

 

[SSSnail]

The new DCT "automatics" are anything but. And, they're more efficient than their manual counterparts to boot.

 

[PricklyPete]

The new DCT "automatics" are anything but. And, they're more efficient than their manual counterparts to boot.

well the article at Autoblog specifically mentioned that it is going to be the 8spd torque converter from ZF..not the DCT model. Whether that is true is to be seen. I agree the DCT is nice...and if I was buying a M3 just for track use...it is the one I'd get...but if I'm buying a car to enjoy on a daily basis...I still want a third pedal.

 

[ShawnD1]

The new DCT "automatics" are anything but. And, they're more efficient than their manual counterparts to boot.

DCT is extremely expensive up front, extremely expensive to fix, and apparently they might be less reliable than even a conventional automatic due to their overwhelming complexity. They are amazing, but they come at a very high cost.

What's funny is reading how it behaves.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...rt_take_road_test/but_is_it_quicker_3f_page_2

Still No Replacement for the Manual

M DCT is no doubt a technical marvel, but we don’t yet prefer it to a traditional manual.

First off, the throttle response from a standstill is annoyingly lazy. Most times we found ourselves pushing the pedal about halfway down just to get a reasonable response. When attempting to merge into busy traffic, we often used so much pedal as to hit the kickdown switch on the floorboard to get the M3 moving. And then once the clutch finally engages, you get too much acceleration and, often, wheelspin. This slow clutch engagement is disconcerting, and we all agree that it’s far quicker and easier to get a swift, predictable step-off in the manual version.

I swear to god they are writing about my crayolla. That's exactly what my shit car does! It's going really slow, push harder, nothing, push harder, drops two gears, revs way up to max torque range, wheel spin because the roads are kinda shitty right now, then I need to let my foot off so it gets out of whatever stupid ass gear it jumped into.

So basically every car is total shit unless it's in some kind of manual mode. The only difference between something with paddle shifters and a conventional manual transmission is a clutch and maybe $1000 difference in the price tag.

 

[SSSnail]

Sounds like the guy doesn't know how to drive it then, you suppose to SWITCH the gears as opposed to waiting for the car to do it for you. Same thing with a manual, if you want to go, you downshift. So why is it any difference with a DCT? You DOWNSHIFT FIRST, then you gas it. Except, you don't have a clutch to deal with.

Even with the triptronics, I found a lot of people don't even know how to operate it properly.

 

[PricklyPete]

Sounds like the guy doesn't know how to drive it then, you suppose to SWITCH the gears as opposed to waiting for the car to do it for you. Same thing with a manual, if you want to go, you downshift. So why is it any difference with a DCT? You DOWNSHIFT FIRST, then you gas it. Except, you don't have a clutch to deal with.

Even with the triptronics, I found a lot of people don't even know how to operate it properly.

I have read several reviews of the M DCT saying that it didn't always kick down when it was told to do so. I will search for the article(s). So what is exactly wrong with wanting a manual exactly? No transmission is perfect, but many of us enjoy having direct control of the transmission even if we may not be as fast on the track.

 

[SSSnail]

I have read several reviews of the M DCT saying that it didn't always kick down when it was told to do so. I will search for the article(s). So what is exactly wrong with wanting a manual exactly? No transmission is perfect, but many of us enjoy having direct control of the transmission even if we may not be as fast on the track.

I love manual transmissions, I learned to drive in one and always will love them, but, I'm not going to dismiss something newer just because I happen to love something else. There's enough love to go all around, that's all I'm saying. Learn to love new things, or many things, that's what we're capable of.

Speaking of which, whenever I'm on "spirited" drives, I never had problems keeping my car in 2nd or 3rd coming out of a turn almost redlining. A lot of driving is also about anticipating.

 

[PricklyPete]

I love manual transmissions, I learned to drive in one and always will love them, but, I'm not going to dismiss something newer just because I happen to love something else. There's enough love to go all around, that's all I'm saying. Learn to love new things, or many things, that's what we're capable of.

Speaking of which, whenever I'm on "spirited" drives, I never had problems keeping my car in 2nd or 3rd coming out of a turn almost redlining. A lot of driving is also about anticipating.

What we are lamenting is that there may not be the option. A lot of us would like to think we might own an M5 one of these days... and would love if the option of a manual is there. The fact that BMW is possibly cutting out manuals completely for the M5...and may be only doing a slushbox (not even DCT) is just disheartening.

I understand that it's a business decision, but BMW does bill itself as the "Ultimate Driving Machine". Some of us don't feel the driving experience is not the same without controlling the clutch and feel if any company can understand it, it is BMW. We're sad that they seem to be neglecting this. Up until this point, BMW has almost always given the option of a manual with the exception of a couple of their huge SUV's and executive sedans.

I'm not an auto hater. The ZF unit in my wife's car is fantastic and on days when I'm in horrible traffic and just want to veg...I appreciate it. I've driven a 2010 M3 with a DCT trans on a track and it is the one I'd have if bought my car purely for tracking. That being said, on days I just want to enjoy driving...I want to be in my car rowing my own gear and working my own clutch. That is all.