2010 shaping up to be the warmest year on record

[shira]

Scary? Not in the slightest. What gets to me is the near constant posting from yourself and other like minded individuals about something that if it were true, we cannot turn around. If we've killed the planet, we've killed it. We could close every factory, park every car, cease heating our homes and quit exhaling here in the U.S. and the difference would be immeasurable. In the meantime, while we lived in the dark ages, volcanoes would still erupt and China would still be bringing coal fired power plants on line to just scratch the surface.

When one constantly obsesses about something that is out of their control, I always heartily suggest intervention by professionals. Willingly seeking help is always preferable to being hauled off against one's will.

Oh, I almost forgot. There is other empirical data that contradicts your empirical data. But by all means continue posting once a week or so to try and soothe your angst. If you haven't figured it out yet, it's high time someone told you, it's not working. You're still worked up. Maybe it's time to try something else. See the paragraph above.

Who claims we've killed the planet?

By your reasoning, since the Gulf Oil Spill is really, really bad, and causing huge damage, the patient is dead. End of story.

MMCC is getting worse, and will cause vast damage, just like the oil spill. But it hasn't killed the planet yet, and much can be done to control it.

Are you climate-deniers really this stupid?

 

[Genx87]

I am sure this also has little to do with any rise in temperature on earth in the past century.
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/18692

Using modelling techniques, the Finnish team was able to extend data on solar activity back to 850 AD. The researchers found that there has been a sharp increase in the number of sunspots since the beginning of the 20th century. They calculated that the average number was about 30 per year between 850 and 1900, and then increased to 60 between 1900 and 1944, and is now at its highest ever value of 76.

 

[shira]

You really don't understand this simple chart?

You really didn't understand my question?

 

[Jaskalas]

LOL... That's right, you're 17. I'm 42 and I've been living in the Tampa Bay Area for 30+ years. This past winter was like the winters we *used to get* on a regular basis. You're just used to the warmer ones.

Oh, and shens on your 2 months of 50's for a high and 30's for a low. Go to the Weather Channel page and prove that claim.

Speaking of your age and winters of yore....

Your youth coincided with the cool period of the Pacific Decadal Oscillation. The next decade should see a return of those winters.

 

[sandorski]

Not surprised. In 20 years this Years Data(assuming trend continues) won't even make the Top Ten.

print this Post and put it on your fridge

 

[Genx87]

Not surprised. In 20 years this Years Data(assuming trend continues) won't even make the Top Ten.

print this Post and put it on your fridge

Im sure they said the same thing in 1934.

 

[boomerang]

Who claims we've killed the planet?

By your reasoning, since the Gulf Oil Spill is really, really bad, and causing huge damage, the patient is dead. End of story.

MMCC is getting worse, and will cause vast damage, just like the oil spill. But it hasn't killed the planet yet, and much can be done to control it.

Are you climate-deniers really this stupid?

Despite statistical data that we are in a cooling off period, you start yet another thread based on recent history. So recent, that you refer to the last three months. There is somebody that's beyond stupid in this thread.

You should really go cower in the corner and wait for the end. But first, shut your computer off forever to show us how serious you are. Do it now. If you don't, you're just part of the problem - or a hypocrite.

In closing, you get Al Gore. He'd love to make a whole lotta dough off hysterical loons like yourself.

Coming up next, control over plate tectonics, the orbit of the moon, high tides and volcanoes. Pull off cap and trade and you'll be begging to be taxed to control these too.

 

[Jaskalas]

Source Document (pdf)

Here you go, it's backwards from most charts listing Present to Past, but you can quite clearly see the idea. The earth was warmer last interglacial, it spends the majority of its time MUCH cooler, and most of our current warmth occurred over 10,000 years ago.

God damn those cavemen and their CO2 emissions!

 

[ebaycj]

Yeah and last Summer was the coolest weather since 1942 east of the rockies.
We had an early Spring in Minnesota but I wouldnt say it has been terribly hot. We got our first tornados of the season last week. Been really rainy.

And the sun was in a period of extremely low activity last year (and most of the year prior).

It is now in / entering into a period of high activity.

 

[StageLeft]

Despite statistical data that we are in a cooling off period, you start yet another thread based on recent history. So recent, that you refer to the last three months. There is somebody that's beyond stupid in this thread.

You should really go cower in the corner and wait for the end. But first, shut your computer off forever to show us how serious you are. Do it now. If you don't, you're just part of the problem - or a hypocrite.

In closing, you get Al Gore. He'd love to make a whole lotta dough off hysterical loons like yourself.

Coming up next, control over plate tectonics, the orbit of the moon, high tides and volcanoes. Pull off cap and trade and you'll be begging to be taxed to control these too.

That picture pwns me.

I don't know how much we're changing the climate. I do know one thing, though: if we are screwing it, we're not gonna stop, so in some ways I'd rather live in ignorance. There are thousands of years of history proving that we will consume like a virus with little consideration for much else if it doesn't have a pretty irrefutable case.

 

[WHAMPOM]

LOL! Local climate is not an indicator of the current global cooling we're experiencing.

Time for a little panic drumming to push carbon and CO2 tax, fear mongering cultists.

Global just flies right over your head, don't it??

 

[drebo]

I've always been of the opinion that people who think we are capable of affecting the climate to any noticable degree give the human populace WAY too much credit.

There is no POSSIBLE way that we affect the global climate more than the GIANT FUCKING BALL OF FIRE IN THE SKY. It's just not possible.

 

[woolfe9999]

I hate these debates. I never know whether to listen to the scientists or the nut cases.

Listen to your inner child.

- wolf

 

[woolfe9999]

I've always been of the opinion that people who think we are capable of affecting the climate to any noticable degree give the human populace WAY too much credit.

There is no POSSIBLE way that we affect the global climate more than the GIANT FUCKING BALL OF FIRE IN THE SKY. It's just not possible.

http://skepticwiki.org/index.php/Argument_from_Incredulity

- wolf

 

[NeoV]

It only took the 3rd page to get a Gore mention? You guys are slacking.

"I've always been of the opinion that people who think we are capable of affecting the climate to any noticable degree give the human populace WAY too much credit.

There is no POSSIBLE way that we affect the global climate more than the GIANT FUCKING BALL OF FIRE IN THE SKY. It's just not possible."

I love the 'there is no way man can impact the climate on this huge rock' posts.


if only there was this thing called science...and we could measure the heat given off by the sun....if only we had satellites doing just that.....

Gen X and Jackalas do their typical denier-spiel, 90% of which is repeating the drivel that Rush and his squad of morons repeats, and other than the regional weather updates in MN, it's almost entirely wrong - as usual.

Seriously folks - read some damn science articles written by actual scientists.

lets try to address a few of these things..

as for the sun - In the last 35 years a period of CLEAR warming, the sun has shown a slight cooling trend. Sun and climate have been going in opposite directions. Get it? It isn't the sun people - again - read the science.

Did some idiot bring up 1934 also? That was the warmest the US has ever been - not globally - thanks for playing though.

guys - really - it's not a question now of if it is happening or not - if you are still waging that battle - the war is over - you've already lost - the question now is - and there is a TON of uncertainty about this - can we do anything to meaningfully slow/stop/improve the situation - and what is the result of this going to be?

I'll be the first to admit that those two questions are no where close to being answered.

If you take Al Gore and all the 'cap and trade' partisan BS away - the fact that this has become a purely partisan discussion is ridiculous.

 

[Throckmorton]

Source Document (pdf)

Here you go, it's backwards from most charts listing Present to Past, but you can quite clearly see the idea. The earth was warmer last interglacial, it spends the majority of its time MUCH cooler, and most of our current warmth occurred over 10,000 years ago.

God damn those cavemen and their CO2 emissions!

What that graph doesn't show is the rapid and unnatural warming caused by the increase in greenhouse gases we've caused.

It's really simple physics. You increase the percentage of a greenhouse gas, and more heat will be retained. That doesn't mean natural variation doesn't exist. Surely you can understand that....

 

[runestone]

It's been cool and wet here,,,,
"The day before the summer solstice — when the sun's rays should shine strongest over the northern hemisphere — might instead have been "the darkest June day anyone's ever experienced" in Seattle, said Cliff Mass, professor of atmospheric sciences at the University of Washington"

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ht...weather22m.html?prmid=related_stories_section

 

[monovillage]

yawn

 

[bfdd]

http://skepticwiki.org/index.php/Argument_from_Incredulity

- wolf

wolf that would work if he was imaging something fake. the problem is there really is a huge giant fucking ball of fire that has a significant impact on the Earths climate. so your link in order to "pwn" him kind of self pwns you

 

[Jaskalas]

It's really simple physics. You increase the percentage of a greenhouse gas, and more heat will be retained. That doesn't mean natural variation doesn't exist. Surely you can understand that....

A million year time span indicates natural variations far beyond anything seen in the past 10,000 years.

You're talking about a trace gas in our atmosphere with a logarithmic curve associated with its effects. Then there's the whole problem you have with CO2 lagging BEHIND temperature changes, indicating that temperature drives CO2 and not the other way around.

You want to use this as an excuse to dismantle modern society? Get your shit together first.

 

[Throckmorton]

A million year time span indicates natural variations far beyond anything seen in the past 10,000 years.

Variation with the speed we're seeing now is extremely rare. Usually it accompanies some catastrophe like a huge volcanic eruption or a meteor strike.

You're talking about a trace gas in our atmosphere with a logarithmic curve associated with its effects.

It may be a "trace gas" but its effects are measurable in a lab. We've increased CO2 concentration 40% by burning fossil fuels.

Then there's the whole problem you have with CO2 lagging BEHIND temperature changes, indicating that temperature drives CO2 and not the other way around.

Are you serious? The reason CO2 always lags behind temperature increases is that it's normally a DEPENDENT VARIABLE. People weren't around before to burn massive amounts of sequestered carbon. Now we are, and it's an independent variable. That's the whole point.

You want to use this as an excuse to dismantle modern society? Get your shit together first.

And who is talking about dismantling modern society? That's a ridiculous straw man. Everybody who understands the reality of climate change wants to ADVANCE technology, and the deniers are happy to stagnate.

Ironically it seems that the people with the least knowledge of climate change think they're the experts. Funny how they always parrot the same stupid arguments. Is Rush Limbaugh handing these out? No matter how much you try, you can't *wish* away the physical properties of greenhouse gases. Reality has nothing to do with emotions and feelings.

 

[Double Trouble]

Yawn. Unfortunately, the global warming zealots have irreparably harmed their movement's credibility with their exorbitant claims and eternal push for more taxation as the answer to everything. Regardless of whether MMGW is true or not, this is now a political battle instead of a scientific discussion, with both sides seizing the opportunity to try and push a political agenda instead of fixing the problem.

 

[PokerGuy]

Right. This is exactly what MMCC-believers are advocating.

Yes, with cap and trade and things like that, that's exactly what they are advocating. They're basically saying that sending more money and power to the government will fix the "problem".

As a mental exercise, assume that it was somehow PROVEN that MMCC was real and would ultimately cause catastrophic damage if not reversed or at least controlled. What would YOU advocate in that case?

Even assuming MMGW is true, the solution doesn't involve more taxes and more money for governments to waste. If indeed the doom and gloom predictions from the MMGW faithful are true, there's nothing that can be done to reverse the problem anyway.

 

[MrEgo]

I'm guessing that if I read the first two pages, I'll see more of the same old "It's rising" "It's falling" "It's rising" "It's falling". Both sides will post graphs and charts of the temperatures showing a warming trend AND somehow a cooling trend.. one side says that we had the hottest year ever.. the other side saying we had the coldest year ever.

 

[JockoJohnson]

God damn those cavemen and their CO2 emissions!

Don't forget all of the methane from farting.