2009 Mac Mini discussion thread

[xophere]

pricy but this how you get to 8GB.

http://www.crucial.com/store/p...DULE=CT2KIT51264BC1067

8GB Kit (4GBx2), 204-pin SODIMM, DDR3 PC3-8500 memory module
CT2KIT51264BC1067
Module Size: 8GB Kit (4GBx2)
Package: 204-pin SODIMM
Feature: DDR3 PC3-8500
Specs: DDR3 PC3-8500 ? CL=7 ? Unbuffered ? NON-ECC ? DDR3-1066 ? 1.5V ? 512Meg x 64 ?
What does this mean?
Currency converter

 

[Goosemaster]

I looking at it and asking myself the same question: why not just get a macbook?

Same chipset and thus the same video capabilities... I am really starting to consider this little guy as the cons of having it in a desktop form factor are too high.

I would also seem to get the added benefit of Intel VT which I will need everyday...

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster
I looking at it and asking myself the same question: why not just get a macbook?

Same chipset and thus the same video capabilities... I am really starting to consider this little guy as the cons of having it in a desktop form factor are too high.

I would also seem to get the added benefit of Intel VT which I will need everyday...

The Macbook costs more and it can't be upgraded. If you're not after a laptop, I can't think of why you'd want to go that way.

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: Goosemaster
I looking at it and asking myself the same question: why not just get a macbook?

Same chipset and thus the same video capabilities... I am really starting to consider this little guy as the cons of having it in a desktop form factor are too high.

I would also seem to get the added benefit of Intel VT which I will need everyday...

The Macbook costs more and it can't be upgraded. If you're not after a laptop, I can't think of why you'd want to go that way.

I've held off on buying a laptop for YEARS. My old mac mini is going to be my HTPC for use with my projector and I can't see myself heavily upgrading a new mac mini.

CPU? nope
esata? wouldn't want to void the warranty
ram? I would get 4GB on both (max)
HDD? I can live with 320GB on my person...( I have tons of external drives)

I am just reflecting on how both run on essentially the same platform and how portability overshadows any possible upgrades that I could make in the near future. In addition the VT stuff is a HUGE plus.

 

[Muddy Mudskipper]

Mac Mini disassembly:

http://www.macminicolo.net/macmini2009.html

 

[randomlinh]

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: Goosemaster
While I appreciate the release, it's sort of too little to late as it is hard to justify the cost with the alternatives out there.

<--mac mini 1.6cd w/ 2GB + 1TB esata

I would be spending around $750 + $50 for ilife for the upgrade and I can get so much more from competitors... except osx

Yeah but the point is the OS, as well as the form factor. You can get more from other vendors, but you can't get OS X from other vendors, so you're locked into Apple's ecosystem, for better or for worse.

I agree though, Apple took their sweet time upgrading the Mini. Granted the 9400m wasn't available until recently, but still...lame.

the only direct competition I see is the dell studio hybrid. anyone done any price comparisons? Tho, it's not exactly fair since this is a brand new refresh.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: xophere
pricy but this how you get to 8GB.

http://www.crucial.com/store/p...DULE=CT2KIT51264BC1067

8GB Kit (4GBx2), 204-pin SODIMM, DDR3 PC3-8500 memory module
CT2KIT51264BC1067
Module Size: 8GB Kit (4GBx2)
Package: 204-pin SODIMM
Feature: DDR3 PC3-8500
Specs: DDR3 PC3-8500 ? CL=7 ? Unbuffered ? NON-ECC ? DDR3-1066 ? 1.5V ? 512Meg x 64 ?
What does this mean?
Currency converter

Pricey, but $400 cheaper than Apple :laugh:

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: Muddy Mudskipper
Mac Mini disassembly:

http://www.macminicolo.net/macmini2009.html

DVD drive is SATA, oooh!

I wonder if MCE Tech will make a drive bay for the Mini, similar to their Macbook DVD-to-HDD bays. You could run 2x500gb in a Mini! I'm sure some ingenious hacker will figure out a way to rig that up

So the unknowns right now:

1. Is the CPU upgradable? (1, can the CPU be removed; 2, what CPUs are used specifically; 3, can it handle 35w & 45w CPUs)
2. Can the Mini handle 8 gigs of RAM?

FWIW, we are assuming that the 2.26ghz C2D in the BTO Mini is the P8400. The Sony VIAO AW190JAB laptop uses this chip and is available with 8 gigs of RAM, so it's a definitely possibility - if the Mini's CPU is upgradable (which I'm sure it is) and if the 2.26ghz CPU is a P8400 (which I'm pretty sure it is).

I'm very curious to see if the Mini can handle 35w & 45w CPUs. With the 25w CPUs, we can go as high as 2.53ghz. With the 35w CPUs, we can go as high as 2.8ghz. With the 45w CPUs, we can slap a 2.26ghz mobile Quad-Core CPU in there. Imagine a Mini with a Quad-Core CPU, 8 gigs of RAM, and a 500gb hard drive! That was my dream for a long time, until Hackintosh got really good.

FWIW, the new Asus Lamborghini VX5 laptop comes with a 1TB SSD, which would be pretty awesome in a Mini:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/0...amborghini-vx5-laptop/

 

[Kaido]

I'm also curious as to what size the DVD drive is. Slimline DVD drives comes in 2 sizes: 9.5mm and 12.7mm. The Panasonic UJ-235A, for example, is a 12.7mm slimline, slotload 4x Bluray burner:

http://www.slidirect.com/product26-171.html

For people wanting a compact Windows Media Center box, especially for streaming media & Bluray/DVD movie playback, this would be an ideal setup.

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: Muddy Mudskipper
Mac Mini disassembly:

http://www.macminicolo.net/macmini2009.html

awesome.

 

[tefleming]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: Muddy Mudskipper
Mac Mini disassembly:

http://www.macminicolo.net/macmini2009.html

awesome.

That's just weak. If this were a true tear down, they'd've removed the Heat Sink...

 

[racolvin]

If the 2.26 CPU is the P8400, that'll make hardware VT available to Parallels users

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: tefleming

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: Muddy Mudskipper
Mac Mini disassembly:

http://www.macminicolo.net/macmini2009.html

awesome.

That's just weak. If this were a true tear down, they'd've removed the Heat Sink...

true...

 

[racolvin]

Quick question on thermal issues in the Mini - if you were to upgrade to the 2.53 processor from Newegg (P9500), since it's still a 25W package the heatsink in the Mini should still be suitable? I guess I mean that clock speed doesn't change the thermal characteristics if the max wattage is the same?

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: racolvin
Quick question on thermal issues in the Mini - if you were to upgrade to the 2.53 processor from Newegg (P9500), since it's still a 25W package the heatsink in the Mini should still be suitable? I guess I mean that clock speed doesn't change the thermal characteristics if the max wattage is the same?

The last-gen Mini was upgraded to a 2.33ghz Merom C2D and it handled it just fine (along with 4 gigs of RAM and a 7200rpm hard drive). My guess is that it would fine (assuming the CPU is upgradable). If you're worried about it, just wait a few weeks for someone to upgrade it and see what the temps are. 123MacMini.com has a good community, and there are some Mac guys over at the Xtreme Systems forums who like to upgrade (Fugger in particular).

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: racolvin
Quick question on thermal issues in the Mini - if you were to upgrade to the 2.53 processor from Newegg (P9500), since it's still a 25W package the heatsink in the Mini should still be suitable? I guess I mean that clock speed doesn't change the thermal characteristics if the max wattage is the same?

25W is a max TDP, so thermal dissipation will never exceed that. Any other processor with the same TDP should work as long as Apple actually built the Mini to handle 25W.

 

[racolvin]

Got it, thanks

I'm itching to get one but I don't want to do it if I can't do the upgrades. Guess I'll just have to wait until a better teardown shows the answers

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: racolvin
Got it, thanks

I'm itching to get one but I don't want to do it if I can't do the upgrades. Guess I'll just have to wait until a better teardown shows the answers

FWIW the previous Yonah/Merom chips used about 35 watts a pop and the Mini is rated for 110w max. It'd be interesting to find out if there are any power savings going from the Intel GMA950 to the Nvidia 9400m video solution. I'd bet a 35 watt chip would work in the Mini, meaning that we could go as high as 2.8ghz CPUs in there. If the 9400m offers any kind of power savings, then perhaps we could even go as high as 45 watts. But the mobile Quad-Core 45w chips run $900+, which to me translates to about 3 complete Hackintoshes

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: racolvin
Got it, thanks

I'm itching to get one but I don't want to do it if I can't do the upgrades. Guess I'll just have to wait until a better teardown shows the answers

FWIW the previous Yonah/Merom chips used about 35 watts a pop and the Mini is rated for 110w max. It'd be interesting to find out if there are any power savings going from the Intel GMA950 to the Nvidia 9400m video solution. I'd bet a 35 watt chip would work in the Mini, meaning that we could go as high as 2.8ghz CPUs in there. If the 9400m offers any kind of power savings, then perhaps we could even go as high as 45 watts. But the mobile Quad-Core 45w chips run $900+, which to me translates to about 3 complete Hackintoshes

The power thing really goes either way. Intel's 945G chipsets topped out at 25W, but I don't know what they bottom out at. I think it's safe to assume they're between 20W and 25W.

Meanwhile NVIDIA specs the 9400M at 12W TDP, but at the same time we know from articles like AnandTech's Ion Preview that the 9400M + Atom had more power draw than the 945G + Atom. Without knowing what exact 945G was used, we can't figure out the exact values, but I would have to guess that the total power usage is probably a wash. The CPU uses 10W less, but the GPU+chipset uses anything between the same amount of power to more. So I'm not sure the new Mini would have any more headroom.

And this is not taking in to consideration any possible cutbacks Apple may have made in cooling. The new Mini may not cool as well as the old one. Certainly, you're not popping a quad core processor in there.

 

[Kaido]

Yay Internet, found what I was looking for! The Intel GMA950 uses 7 watts:

http://www.notebookcheck.net/I...erator-950.2177.0.html

The Nvidia 9400m uses 12 watts:

http://www.notebookcheck.net/N...e-9400M-G.11949.0.html

So the new 9400m uses 5 more watts than the old GMA950 with about a 5x gain over the Intel solution. Then they dropped the power requirement on the CPU by 10 watts by switching to the newer C2D chips @ 25w (vs. 35w before). I found an old post with some basic wattage info on the Mini:

http://www.123macmini.com/news/story/487.html

The max was with the T7400 Merom, using 2 Folding@home clients with a max of 51 watts. So if the Mini's power supply is 110 watts, that should easily allow a 35w or 45w chip to be put in, assuming the thermals are OK and don't overheat the Mini.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: ViRGE
The power thing really goes either way. Intel's 945G chipsets topped out at 25W, but I don't know what they bottom out at. I think it's safe to assume they're between 20W and 25W.

Meanwhile NVIDIA specs the 9400M at 12W TDP, but at the same time we know from articles like AnandTech's Ion Preview that the 9400M + Atom had more power draw than the 945G + Atom. Without knowing what exact 945G was used, we can't figure out the exact values, but I would have to guess that the total power usage is probably a wash. The CPU uses 10W less, but the GPU+chipset uses anything between the same amount of power to more. So I'm not sure the new Mini would have any more headroom.

And this is not taking in to consideration any possible cutbacks Apple may have made in cooling. The new Mini may not cool as well as the old one. Certainly, you're not popping a quad core processor in there.

Only one way to find out :evil:

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: ViRGE
The power thing really goes either way. Intel's 945G chipsets topped out at 25W, but I don't know what they bottom out at. I think it's safe to assume they're between 20W and 25W.

Meanwhile NVIDIA specs the 9400M at 12W TDP, but at the same time we know from articles like AnandTech's Ion Preview that the 9400M + Atom had more power draw than the 945G + Atom. Without knowing what exact 945G was used, we can't figure out the exact values, but I would have to guess that the total power usage is probably a wash. The CPU uses 10W less, but the GPU+chipset uses anything between the same amount of power to more. So I'm not sure the new Mini would have any more headroom.

And this is not taking in to consideration any possible cutbacks Apple may have made in cooling. The new Mini may not cool as well as the old one. Certainly, you're not popping a quad core processor in there.

Only one way to find out :evil:

With Apple's use of godawful cooling lately, I must admit I feel sorry for the guy who has to test it. I can't count the number of times I've heard of Apple laptops with discrete GPUs overheating on EVE-Online, for example. :brokenheart: Apple's definition of adequate cooling seems to be "enough to cool the GPU or the CPU running at full tilt, but not both".

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: ViRGE
With Apple's use of awful cooling lately, I must admit I feel sorry for the guy who has to test it. I can't count the number of times I've heard of Apple laptops with discrete GPUs overheating on EVE-Online, for example. :brokenheart: Apple's definition of adequate cooling seems to be "enough to cool the GPU or the CPU running at full tilt, but not both".

It'd be nice to see an aftermarket cooling kit for the Mini come out, something akin to Shuttle's ICE system. What would be really cool is a combination top replacement shell with an eSATA jack, an integrated heatsink pipe leading to a Mini-style enclosure that sits underneath the Mini, which houses a 3.5" hard drive, a heatsink, and a thin 120mm fan. Then you could just pop the top off your Mini, slap this case on, and slide a 3.5" HDD inside the bottom-mount. Lots of cooling + speed

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: ViRGE
With Apple's use of awful cooling lately, I must admit I feel sorry for the guy who has to test it. I can't count the number of times I've heard of Apple laptops with discrete GPUs overheating on EVE-Online, for example. :brokenheart: Apple's definition of adequate cooling seems to be "enough to cool the GPU or the CPU running at full tilt, but not both".

It'd be nice to see an aftermarket cooling kit for the Mini come out, something akin to Shuttle's ICE system. What would be really cool is a combination top replacement shell with an eSATA jack, an integrated heatsink pipe leading to a Mini-style enclosure that sits underneath the Mini, which houses a 3.5" hard drive, a heatsink, and a thin 120mm fan. Then you could just pop the top off your Mini, slap this case on, and slide a 3.5" HDD inside the bottom-mount. Lots of cooling + speed

That's not a bad idea. The 9400M is going to kill speed and the SO-DIMMs are no fun, but that's bearable. The bit that kills it is that you can't use significantly cheaper desktop processors. You'd quickly be approaching iMac costs and still not have a screen.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: ViRGE
With Apple's use of awful cooling lately, I must admit I feel sorry for the guy who has to test it. I can't count the number of times I've heard of Apple laptops with discrete GPUs overheating on EVE-Online, for example. :brokenheart: Apple's definition of adequate cooling seems to be "enough to cool the GPU or the CPU running at full tilt, but not both".

It'd be nice to see an aftermarket cooling kit for the Mini come out, something akin to Shuttle's ICE system. What would be really cool is a combination top replacement shell with an eSATA jack, an integrated heatsink pipe leading to a Mini-style enclosure that sits underneath the Mini, which houses a 3.5" hard drive, a heatsink, and a thin 120mm fan. Then you could just pop the top off your Mini, slap this case on, and slide a 3.5" HDD inside the bottom-mount. Lots of cooling + speed

That's not a bad idea. The 9400M is going to kill speed and the SO-DIMMs are no fun, but that's bearable. The bit that kills it is that you can't use significantly cheaper desktop processors. You'd quickly be approaching iMac costs and still not have a screen.

Yeah, that's the problem...8 gigs is $800, a Mobile Quad CPU is $900, a Mini is $600...you're pretty much in Mac Pro territory now, lol. But if you want a tiny, powerful computer on your desktop and you're willing to pay for it, then the only thing stopping you is your wallet

I'm debating whether to drop the new Mini into my Cube, or to wait for the Nvidia ION. I want to recycle my G4 Cube into a Kitchen surfing computer, but $599 for a Mini to do that is a little excessive lol.