2005 RL specs

[stnicralisk]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Don_Vito
Good luck competing in that market with a V-6 and FWD-based drivetrain! The projected next-gen M45 actually looks really nice, and will stomp this car to smithereens.

well if they can get the same power as a V8 from a V6, why not? also, V6 will be better on mileage

they won't get the same smooth as butter torque curve, and they won't save on gas either.

Theyll save on gas.. read my post... when cruising at 2100 RPMs theyre going to be using less gasoline than a V8 cruising... they also have less inertia to overcome both in the engine (less cylinders) and on the car (weight of car is usually less with a v6 compared to a v8)

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: stnicralisk

Youre both wrong and right.

The difference between the V6 and V8 that make the same power is that the V6 is doing it at a higher RPM. It IS TRUE that while the V6 is making the same amount of HP as the V8 it is using near the same gasoline.. HOWEVER you forget that while the V6 is in the lower RPMs making far less HP that the V8 in low RPMS where vehicles usually are.. unless its a track car.. itll use MUCH less gasoline.. also a V6 weighs less than a v8 and it will take less power to overcome inertia.. therefor using less gasoline...

PWNAGE!

that would make sense if the V8 had to turn as many RPMs as a V6 does to make the same torque... it doesn't.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: stnicralisk

Theyll save on gas.. read my post... when cruising at 2100 RPMs theyre going to be using less gasoline than a V8 cruising... they also have less inertia to overcome both in the engine (less cylinders) and on the car (weight of car is usually less with a v6 compared to a v8)

they're not saving on gas if the V8 is only turning 1400 rpms

plus you've got the weight and drag of the AWD system

 

[CtK]

Originally posted by: werk
Cool. I want to know when they're going to redo the CL though.

not anytime soon since they discontinued it this year

 

[stnicralisk]

The v8 is also going to have to reach more torque just to go the same mph.

If both engines and cars are based on the same technology (lets say all alum. block etc) the v8 weighs more, has more inertia, and has more friction.

Both cars wont need the same torque to go the same speed. The v8 will need more. Also if you have looked at hybrids youll see that theyre making crazy gas mileage and a big part of it is the battery at low RPMS because you use the most gas when you are overcoming inertia. The v8 will have worse gas mileage.

 

[stnicralisk]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: stnicralisk

Theyll save on gas.. read my post... when cruising at 2100 RPMs theyre going to be using less gasoline than a V8 cruising... they also have less inertia to overcome both in the engine (less cylinders) and on the car (weight of car is usually less with a v6 compared to a v8)

they're not saving on gas if the V8 is only turning 1400 rpms

plus you've got the weight and drag of the AWD system

Lets not compare two cars that are using different technology.. we want to only compare the variable v6 vs v8 gas mileage. That is what the debate is about.. i never specifically talked about this car but if i were then the debate is/would be that a v8 in this car would get worse gas mileage not comparing it to a different car.

 

[ElFenix]

G35X Fuel Economy (city / hwy): All-Wheel Drive

3.5L 260 hp V6
5-Speed Automatic Overdrive 18 / 26 mpg

GS430 Fuel Economy (city / hwy): Rear-Wheel Drive

3.0L 220 hp I6 4.3L 300 hp V8
5-Speed Automatic Overdrive 18 / 25 mpg 18 / 23 mpg


oh boy all of 3 mpg on the highway, thats a huge savings there!

and since the G35 probably weighs less than the RL will i doubt there is really that much to be saved

hell, the GS weighs less than the RL at the moment

 

[NutBucket]

Originally posted by: Don_Vito
Honda has always been incredibly stubborn on the V-8 issue, which was taken to a slightly ridiculous extreme with the NSX. That is a great, underappreciated car in many regards, but the idea of an "exotic" mid-engine sports car with a V-6 still feels wrong to me. In a luxury car, the smoothness and torque of a V-8 make it preferable to even an excellent V-6 IMO (and I drive a VQ-powered Nissan).

What about the Lotus Esprit? For YEARS it had a turbo 4. Awesome car. Heck, I'd prefer it with the turbo 4 then a turbo V8. A 4 just seems better suited for a car like that.

 

[ElFenix]

corvette:
Fuel Economy (city / hwy): Rear-Wheel Drive
6-Speed Manual Overdrive 19 / 28 mpg

accord:
6-Speed Manual Overdrive N/A 20 / 30 mpg

wow that is huge right there!

350Z for fun!
6-Speed Manual Overdrive 20 / 26 mpg

omg combined mileage is the same as the vette!

oh, and the V8 vette weighs 200 lbs less than the 350Z!

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: stnicralisk

Lets not compare two cars that are using different technology.. we want to only compare the variable v6 vs v8 gas mileage. That is what the debate is about.. i never specifically talked about this car but if i were then the debate is/would be that a v8 in this car would get worse gas mileage not comparing it to a different car.

no, the debate is about the AWD RL probably not going to be getting any better mileage and much lower fun factor than a V8 GS

 

[Doggiedog]

Originally posted by: stnicralisk

Originally posted by: isekii
Lexi's V8 is very light.
I think it's lighter than the 2JZ motor.

This is true but it is more due to current technology than anything else im sure. Is the engine all aluminum? Also how much power can the 4.3 handle? I doubt its as strong as a 2jz

Audi's V8 in its S4 is supposedly as light or lighter than the V6 their V6.

 

[NFS4]

BTW, you guys can throw out engine specs and mileage figures all you want, but the bottom line is that Acura needs a V8 for its flagship to be considered a luxury car maker. A 3.5 V6 FLAGSHIP is a joke no matter how you look at it.

Right now, there entire model range looks more like an alternative to Honda rather than a "step up" from Honda. The difference between Toyota and Lexus is night and day. The difference between Honda and Acura is like breakfast and brunch

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: NutBucket


What about the Lotus Esprit? For YEARS it had a turbo 4. Awesome car. Heck, I'd prefer it with the turbo 4 then a turbo V8. A 4 just seems better suited for a car like that.

Different strokes for different folks! Obviously there are 4-cylinder cars out there, with and without forced aspiration, that put out a lot of power. Other things being equal I would always prefer a normally-aspirated engine in terms of having predictable, stable power delivery. This is one of the many reasons the normally-aspirated, 627 bhp McLaren F1 still seems to me to be the ultimate roadgoing car, even 10 years out.

 

[NutBucket]

Originally posted by: Don_Vito

Originally posted by: NutBucket


What about the Lotus Esprit? For YEARS it had a turbo 4. Awesome car. Heck, I'd prefer it with the turbo 4 then a turbo V8. A 4 just seems better suited for a car like that.

Different strokes for different folks! Obviously there are 4-cylinder cars out there, with and without forced aspiration, that put out a lot of power. Other things being equal I would always prefer a normally-aspirated engine in terms of having predictable, stable power delivery. This is one of the many reasons the normally-aspirated, 627 bhp McLaren F1 still seems to me to be the ultimate roadgoing car, even 10 years out.

I guess we'll see. I currently have a high-revving NA 4 and the car I'd like to get next year has a turbo 4.

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: gregshin

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Don_Vito
Good luck competing in that market with a V-6 and FWD-based drivetrain! The projected next-gen M45 actually looks really nice, and will stomp this car to smithereens.

well if they can get the same power as a V8 from a V6, why not? also, V6 will be better on mileage

doesnt matter about gas mileage when you spend over $45k on luxo cars....you will be the laughing stock of the country club cuz you only get honda with a V6 motor....when playing with the big boys you need a big engine in american to compete

Puh-leeeese - most of the rich bitches at the country club don't know sh!t about the internals of a car, the badge on the hood is all that matters. They're all badge whores.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Originally posted by: NutBucket

Originally posted by: Don_Vito

Originally posted by: NutBucket


What about the Lotus Esprit? For YEARS it had a turbo 4. Awesome car. Heck, I'd prefer it with the turbo 4 then a turbo V8. A 4 just seems better suited for a car like that.

Different strokes for different folks! Obviously there are 4-cylinder cars out there, with and without forced aspiration, that put out a lot of power. Other things being equal I would always prefer a normally-aspirated engine in terms of having predictable, stable power delivery. This is one of the many reasons the normally-aspirated, 627 bhp McLaren F1 still seems to me to be the ultimate roadgoing car, even 10 years out.

I guess we'll see. I currently have a high-revving NA 4 and the car I'd like to get next year has a turbo 4.

BTW, I might hold out for the rumored Legacy 3.0R Spec B version with a 245hp Boxer-6 and 6-speed manual.

A test drive will determine which...I just don't have much faith in turbochargers...ANY turbocharger.

 

[stnicralisk]

W

Originally posted by: ElFenix
corvette:
Fuel Economy (city / hwy): Rear-Wheel Drive
6-Speed Manual Overdrive 19 / 28 mpg

accord:
6-Speed Manual Overdrive N/A 20 / 30 mpg

wow that is huge right there!

350Z for fun!
6-Speed Manual Overdrive 20 / 26 mpg

omg combined mileage is the same as the vette!

oh, and the V8 vette weighs 200 lbs less than the 350Z!

Now that you have compared the corvette... A lightweight aluminum chassis to a family sedan to make a point...
Also the 19/28 is on the awesomely designed six speed.. the auto gets 18/25.. I think we can all agree that the corvette is an engineers wet dream.

Since you chose a chevy to compare why not look at the Impala rated at 21/32 mpg.

Also I would like to say that OF COURSE with the "AWD" and a v6 the lexus is going to own it.. I cant argue with that... Id rather i have a G35c than this thing.

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: Howard
Why do they go with AWD? It's more complex than a RWD setup... I'd rather have I6/V8 with RWD than V6 with AWD.

Actually, making the RL RWD would be more complex. Honda currently does not have ANY platform that is RWD, so they'd have to spend millions engineering one. The RL is based off of the Accord platform, which has been AWD possible since the platform was designed. No need to waste engineering and money when you already have a very viable and competent platform available.

 

[isekii]

Originally posted by: rbloedow

Originally posted by: Howard
Why do they go with AWD? It's more complex than a RWD setup... I'd rather have I6/V8 with RWD than V6 with AWD.

Actually, making the RL RWD would be more complex. Honda currently does not have ANY platform that is RWD, so they'd have to spend millions engineering one. The RL is based off of the Accord platform, which has been AWD possible the platform was designed. No need to waste engineering and money when you already have a very viable and competent platform available.

what do you call the NSX and the S2000 ?

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: isekii

Originally posted by: rbloedow

Originally posted by: Howard
Why do they go with AWD? It's more complex than a RWD setup... I'd rather have I6/V8 with RWD than V6 with AWD.

Actually, making the RL RWD would be more complex. Honda currently does not have ANY platform that is RWD, so they'd have to spend millions engineering one. The RL is based off of the Accord platform, which has been AWD possible the platform was designed. No need to waste engineering and money when you already have a very viable and competent platform available.

what do you call the NSX and the S2000 ?

I was referring to sedan platforms. The s2000 and NSX are unique, niche cars who's designs could not support anything near the size of a full sized sedan.

 

[NFS4]

Now that you have compared the corvette... A lightweight aluminum chassis to a family sedan to make a point...
Also the 19/28 is on the awesomely designed six speed.. the auto gets 18/25.. I think we can all agree that the corvette is an engineers wet dream.

Honda Accord Coupe V6, 6-speed manual: 3,285 lbs
Corvette 6-speed: 3,214 lbs

 

[RagingBITCH]

Originally posted by: isekii

Originally posted by: rbloedow

Originally posted by: Howard
Why do they go with AWD? It's more complex than a RWD setup... I'd rather have I6/V8 with RWD than V6 with AWD.

Actually, making the RL RWD would be more complex. Honda currently does not have ANY platform that is RWD, so they'd have to spend millions engineering one. The RL is based off of the Accord platform, which has been AWD possible the platform was designed. No need to waste engineering and money when you already have a very viable and competent platform available.

what do you call the NSX and the S2000 ?

Cars?

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: stnicralisk

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: Don_Vito
Good luck competing in that market with a V-6 and FWD-based drivetrain! The projected next-gen M45 actually looks really nice, and will stomp this car to smithereens.

well if they can get the same power as a V8 from a V6, why not? also, V6 will be better on mileage

Not if it makes the same power. An S2000 gets about the same mileage as a Camaro Z28. Neglecting the insignificant increase in frictional losses that come from the V8's two additional cylinders, the V6 will need the same amount of fuel to make the same amount of power. Gasoline has a specific energy density. A V6 does not magically get more energy from the same amount of gasoline.

ZV

Youre both wrong and right.

The difference between the V6 and V8 that make the same power is that the V6 is doing it at a higher RPM. It IS TRUE that while the V6 is making the same amount of HP as the V8 it is using near the same gasoline.. HOWEVER you forget that while the V6 is in the lower RPMs making far less HP that the V8 in low RPMS where vehicles usually are.. unless its a track car.. itll use MUCH less gasoline.. also a V6 weighs less than a v8 and it will take less power to overcome inertia.. therefor using less gasoline...

PWNAGE!

My V8 car cruises at 75 mph at 2,000 RPM. Comparable V6 cars I've driven or ridden in tend to be spinning between 2,800 and 3,000 RPM at 75 mph. Fuel mileage for my big (by modern standards) V8 at a steady 75-80 is 26 mpg. V6 cars are almost always geared such that the engine is always spinning faster than a V8. You are correct in theory, but not in practice.

The extra weight of a V8 is negligible at best. Unless you're considering old fashioned cast-iron pushrod V8's, which don't really count in these applications because they also lose efficiency in other areas (such as combustion chamber design, limited by valve placement because of the pushrods). Modern aluminum V8's do not weigh very much more than V6's with comparable per-cylinder displacements.

Again, the S2000 as a complete package, performs about the same as a Camaro Z28 and gets about the same gas mileage. Barring some very complex technological adaptations (such as a hybrid drive), if two cars have similar performance, they will have similar mileage. Gearing plays a role, but if cars are geared for similar acceleration in all gears then mileage should also be similar.

ZV

 

[Aharami]

Originally posted by: stnicralisk

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: stnicralisk

Theyll save on gas.. read my post... when cruising at 2100 RPMs theyre going to be using less gasoline than a V8 cruising... they also have less inertia to overcome both in the engine (less cylinders) and on the car (weight of car is usually less with a v6 compared to a v8)

they're not saving on gas if the V8 is only turning 1400 rpms

plus you've got the weight and drag of the AWD system

Lets not compare two cars that are using different technology.. we want to only compare the variable v6 vs v8 gas mileage. That is what the debate is about.. i never specifically talked about this car but if i were then the debate is/would be that a v8 in this car would get worse gas mileage not comparing it to a different car.

wow! :Q pat me on the back. this is the first debate i sparked on ATOT!

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: stnicralisk
The v8 is also going to have to reach more torque just to go the same mph.

If both engines and cars are based on the same technology (lets say all alum. block etc) the v8 weighs more, has more inertia, and has more friction.

Both cars wont need the same torque to go the same speed. The v8 will need more. Also if you have looked at hybrids youll see that theyre making crazy gas mileage and a big part of it is the battery at low RPMS because you use the most gas when you are overcoming inertia. The v8 will have worse gas mileage.

Those additions are all too small to consider in real world driving. A 1mpg difference at most. That's on the order of having your tires 5% underinflated. It's completely insignificant in a real-world comparison. And you'll note that I specifically ignored those in my first post.

ZV