2000 Corvette vs 3.0 Z4 on a curvy track

[DougK62]

Originally posted by: TechBoyJK
...
I see that he has a black 2000 Corvette with like an 8pound turbo and some slotted brakes.

My friend has a 99 vette, that while quicker off the line and obviously a bit faster, I have no problem hanging with. and I KNOW my car handles much much better than the vette.
...

Uh, a 2000 Corvette will easily beat your Z4 in every performance category, and that's stock for stock, completely discounting the turbo. Your car does not handle "much much better" than the Corvette - in fact, it's worse. Where did you come up with this stuff?

If you like your car then just enjoy it, don't compare it to other cars and make silly fanboy statements.

Relax, you have the girl.

 

[MustangSVT]

on a track? on these two cars, the biggest factor would be the driver.

 

[TechBoyJK]

Originally posted by: DougK62

Originally posted by: TechBoyJK
...
I see that he has a black 2000 Corvette with like an 8pound turbo and some slotted brakes.

My friend has a 99 vette, that while quicker off the line and obviously a bit faster, I have no problem hanging with. and I KNOW my car handles much much better than the vette.
...

Uh, a 2000 Corvette will easily beat your Z4 in every performance category, and that's stock for stock, completely discounting the turbo. Your car does not handle "much much better" than the Corvette - in fact, it's worse. Where did you come up with this stuff?

If you like your car then just enjoy it, don't compare it to other cars and make silly fanboy statements.

Relax, you have the girl.

everything i read, he even says it in the top gear video, that the z4 is a better handling/braking car than the vette. compared to the newer models? Probably not so much, but anything pre-05 yea.

 

[exdeath]

The problem for you is the overwhelming majority of races start at stop lights, in the middle of the city where roads run N-S and E-W, not on curvy roads.

And most places where you get past the last stoplight on the straight to get to that curving road just outside the city, you have to win at the 2-1 merge at the last straight...

This is why straight line power is everything in a street/commuter car. Unless you take your car to a track where you can drive through curves at 100 mph, it won't do you much good when that 5.7L V8 is roaring next to you at the red light on your way to work...

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: TechBoyJK

he even says it in the top gear video

I stopped reading everything here.

 

[TechBoyJK]

Originally posted by: exdeath
The problem for you is the overwhelming majority of races start at stop lights, in the middle of the city where roads run N-S and E-W, not on curvy roads.

And most places where you get past the last stoplight on the straight to get to that curving road just outside the city, you have to win at the 2-1 merge at the last straight...

This is why straight line power is everything in a street/commuter car. Unless you take your car to a track where you can drive through curves at 100 mph, it won't do you much good when that 5.7L V8 is roaring next to you at the red light on your way to work...

Oh, I understand that completely. The vette does a 1/4 almost 1.5-2 seconds faster. 0-6 about a second faster. My question completely revolved around stressing the car through a curvy track where blunt force power isn't as valuable (as demonstrated in the top gear vid).

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: DougK62
Uh, a 2000 Corvette will easily beat your Z4 in every performance category, and that's stock for stock, completely discounting the turbo. Your car does not handle "much much better" than the Corvette - in fact, it's worse. Where did you come up with this stuff?

QFT...and a race is only won when it's actually raced.

Put a dumbass in a viper and Parnelli Jones in a Pinto and on a long enough track I am sure the viper will lose.

 

[EightySix Four]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: DougK62
Uh, a 2000 Corvette will easily beat your Z4 in every performance category, and that's stock for stock, completely discounting the turbo. Your car does not handle "much much better" than the Corvette - in fact, it's worse. Where did you come up with this stuff?

QFT...and a race is only won when it's actually raced.

Put a dumbass in a viper and Parnelli Jones in a Pinto and on a long enough track I am sure the viper will lose.

Put a dumbass in a viper on a track and I'm pretty sure you'll be -1 viper and possibly -1 dumbass.

 

[TechBoyJK]

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: DougK62
Uh, a 2000 Corvette will easily beat your Z4 in every performance category, and that's stock for stock, completely discounting the turbo. Your car does not handle "much much better" than the Corvette - in fact, it's worse. Where did you come up with this stuff?

QFT...and a race is only won when it's actually raced.

Put a dumbass in a viper and Parnelli Jones in a Pinto and on a long enough track I am sure the viper will lose.

Put a dumbass in a viper on a track and I'm pretty sure you'll be -1 viper and possibly -1 dumbass.

hahah QFT

 

[Viper GTS]

WTF kind of crack do you have to be on to think that comments Jeremy Clarkson makes about an M car can translate to your non-M Z4? And LMAO @ the "much much better" handling.

You are seriously delusional if you think the only difference between your car & the M is 75 more HP.

Viper GTS

 

[overst33r]

According to Sport Auto Magazine, the base C5 targa went around the 'ring in 8:18 while a z4 3.0 coupe did it in 8:32. Granted the weather/conditions of the track play a factor, but either way, it's not even a contest... You should NEVER EVER take anything on Top gear seriously. It will keep you from embarrassing yourself in the future.

 

[lurk3r]

Originally posted by: TechBoyJK

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: DougK62
Uh, a 2000 Corvette will easily beat your Z4 in every performance category, and that's stock for stock, completely discounting the turbo. Your car does not handle "much much better" than the Corvette - in fact, it's worse. Where did you come up with this stuff?

QFT...and a race is only won when it's actually raced.

Put a dumbass in a viper and Parnelli Jones in a Pinto and on a long enough track I am sure the viper will lose.

Put a dumbass in a viper on a track and I'm pretty sure you'll be -1 viper and possibly -1 dumbass.

hahah QFT

Shit I'll say it, put ANY of us in a viper on a track and it'll probably end up wrecked. People don't realize just how uncontrollable these cars are lol.

 

[BlackTigers]

Yeah, these cars are a bitch to control. I sat shotgun in a Viper around a track once, and the sheer amount of work that the driver was doing was insane.

I have enough trouble keeping control of an SVT Cobra going around back roads, imagining a Viper or a Vette tires me.

 

[EightySix Four]

Originally posted by: BlackTigers
Yeah, these cars are a bitch to control. I sat shotgun in a Viper around a track once, and the sheer amount of work that the driver was doing was insane.

I have enough trouble keeping control of an SVT Cobra going around back roads, imagining a Viper or a Vette tires me.

The viper and the vette have very few things in common as far as driving goes.

The vette has traction control, stability control, ABS, and (personally) is a bit more stable. My vette scared me only once the entire time I owned it, and that was most definitely my fault. It was always planted and you had to want it to let go, and when it did it was progressive and controllable.

The viper has tons of power, and only the newer ones have ABS. The entire time you're driving the car it is just screaming at you, "IF YOU FUCK UP I WILL KILL YOU." The one time I drove a 1997 viper I made the mistake of going into second with a little (I really do mean a little, maybe 20%) throttle and the car snapped it's ass end around so fast... That car terrifies me.

I have mondo respect for anyone who DD's or tracks the older vipers. 90% of them are posers, but the ones who car really drive...

 

[TechBoyJK]

Originally posted by: mariok2006
According to Sport Auto Magazine, the base C5 targa went around the 'ring in 8:18 while a z4 3.0 coupe did it in 8:32. Granted the weather/conditions of the track play a factor, but either way, it's not even a contest... You should NEVER EVER take anything on Top gear seriously. It will keep you from embarrassing yourself in the future.

Well then I admit my fault.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: BlackTigers
Yeah, these cars are a bitch to control. I sat shotgun in a Viper around a track once, and the sheer amount of work that the driver was doing was insane.

I have enough trouble keeping control of an SVT Cobra going around back roads, imagining a Viper or a Vette tires me.

The viper and the vette have very few things in common as far as driving goes.

The vette has traction control, stability control, ABS, and (personally) is a bit more stable. My vette scared me only once the entire time I owned it, and that was most definitely my fault. It was always planted and you had to want it to let go, and when it did it was progressive and controllable.

The viper has tons of power, and only the newer ones have ABS. The entire time you're driving the car it is just screaming at you, "IF YOU FUCK UP I WILL KILL YOU." The one time I drove a 1997 viper I made the mistake of going into second with a little (I really do mean a little, maybe 20%) throttle and the car snapped it's ass end around so fast... That car terrifies me.

I have mondo respect for anyone who DD's or tracks the older vipers. 90% of them are posers, but the ones who car really drive...

^^ I know exactly what you're talking about, but also wanted to throw this out there :

C4 Vettes handle pretty much like what you're talking about on the Viper, only less axe-murderingly psychotic. I had some fun in a '96 C4 GS Vette, and it was ridiculously hard to handle. I then drove a '99 C5 Vette with about identical power, and it was a dream in comparison.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: mariok2006
According to Sport Auto Magazine, the base C5 targa went around the 'ring in 8:18 while a z4 3.0 coupe did it in 8:32. Granted the weather/conditions of the track play a factor, but either way, it's not even a contest... You should NEVER EVER take anything on Top gear seriously. It will keep you from embarrassing yourself in the future.

8:18 for the C5 is not correct. The 8:15 is for the C6 platform. The C5 Z06 did it in 8:18. An auto C5 did it in 8:40, so figure 8:35ish for a manual.

The Z4 M does it in 8:15, the Z4 3.0si does it in 8:32.

Good site for times with references: http://www.gti-club.ru/forum/i...7245&st=0&#entry107245

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: mariok2006
According to Sport Auto Magazine, the base C5 targa went around the 'ring in 8:18 while a z4 3.0 coupe did it in 8:32. Granted the weather/conditions of the track play a factor, but either way, it's not even a contest... You should NEVER EVER take anything on Top gear seriously. It will keep you from embarrassing yourself in the future.

8:18 for the C5 is not correct. The 8:15 is for the C6 platform. The C5 Z06 did it in 8:18. An auto C5 did it in 8:40, so figure 8:35ish for a manual.

The Z4 M does it in 8:15, the Z4 3.0si does it in 8:32.

Good site for times with references: http://www.gti-club.ru/forum/i...7245&st=0&#entry107245

No, that's not a C5 Z06 @ 8:18

8:18 --- 149.92 km/h -- Chevrolet Corvette Z05 Commemorative Edition, 344 PS (sport auto 09/2003)

That's a stock Vette with some anniversary/special edition junk. But it's the stock power for C5, ~345HP.

Also, look at the times for the Camaro SS and Cobalt SS. GM's new bloodthirst (perhaps short-lived, looking at their financial status) for fast 'Ring times comes with some hefty backing.

It's one thing to take a single car there for a few laps. It's quite another to have full corporate backing, stay there for an extended period of time, and run perhaps hundreds of laps with different tuning during testing.

The details of the C5 testing and the Z4 testing aren't given, but both being magazine tests, I'm guessing they just popped off a handful of laps in each, taking whatever the weather gave them. If BMW backed the Z4 testing, and GM the C5 testing, both probably have dropped a bit in time.

But yes :

Stock C5 NON-Z06 Vette = 8:18
Stock Z4 NON-M = 8:32

And a final note, look at the stock C6 Z51 time put down by GM : 7:59. Now look at the 8:15 from Sport Auto.

Better resources, more lap attempts = better time in the same car.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: mariok2006
According to Sport Auto Magazine, the base C5 targa went around the 'ring in 8:18 while a z4 3.0 coupe did it in 8:32. Granted the weather/conditions of the track play a factor, but either way, it's not even a contest... You should NEVER EVER take anything on Top gear seriously. It will keep you from embarrassing yourself in the future.

8:18 for the C5 is not correct. The 8:15 is for the C6 platform. The C5 Z06 did it in 8:18. An auto C5 did it in 8:40, so figure 8:35ish for a manual.

The Z4 M does it in 8:15, the Z4 3.0si does it in 8:32.

Good site for times with references: http://www.gti-club.ru/forum/i...7245&st=0&#entry107245

No, that's not a C5 Z06 @ 8:18

8:18 --- 149.92 km/h -- Chevrolet Corvette Z05 Commemorative Edition, 344 PS (sport auto 09/2003)

That's a stock Vette with some anniversary/special edition junk. But it's the stock power for C5, ~345HP.

Also, look at the times for the Camaro SS and Cobalt SS. GM's new bloodthirst (perhaps short-lived, looking at their financial status) for fast 'Ring times comes with some hefty backing.

It's one thing to take a single car there for a few laps. It's quite another to have full corporate backing, stay there for an extended period of time, and run perhaps hundreds of laps with different tuning during testing.

The details of the C5 testing and the Z4 testing aren't given, but both being magazine tests, I'm guessing they just popped off a handful of laps in each, taking whatever the weather gave them. If BMW backed the Z4 testing, and GM the C5 testing, both probably have dropped a bit in time.

But yes :

Stock C5 NON-Z06 Vette = 8:18
Stock Z4 NON-M = 8:32

And a final note, look at the stock C6 Z51 time put down by GM : 7:59. Now look at the 8:15 from Sport Auto.

Better resources, more lap attempts = better time in the same car.

Sorry, I saw Z06 when it said Z05. Wasn't the Z05 package the Z06 suspension on a standard C5?

 

[exdeath]

You learn to appreciate the tail snap when it's under your control and you know how to use it. The 03 Cobra was described to be so well balanced in reviews when it came out, one magazine described it as being able to plant the rear end exactly where you wanted with your right foot with "micrometer precision".

Like last night when I had to flip the car 180 deg through a tight U turn when coming up along side the drive up ATMs from the opposite side (11 PM had to get cash for Lich King because their debit machines were down).

Sharply turn the car across both lanes perpendicular as you lean on the brake a little and blip the throttle and rotate on the front end and kick the rear out the remaining 90 degrees and line up the car in the opposite direction in one go in the space of 2 car lanes.

Power and RWD are good things in the right hands.

Just because you have the power doesn't mean it's an on-off switch. If a Miata can take a corner with the pedal to the floor making 100HP, it just means in a car with 300 HP you can only use 1/3 the throttle, you can't just expect to floor it in the same way.

 

[Arkaign]

Z05 is not an official model AFAIK, but being that it was a test from 2003, it was probably given as the name for the Anniversary Edition (50th). Upgraded wheels and/or suspension certainly wouldn't be unusual. Looking at the power rating, it's definitely the stock motor.

"Starting with the most structurally rigid body style offered, the hardtop or "fixed roof coupé" (FRC), an uprated FE4 suspension, larger wheel rims and tires, revised gearing ratios, and functional brake cooling ducts became part of the total package. The Z06 is 38 pounds lighter than a standard C5 hardtop thanks to weight-saving measures such as a titanium exhaust, thinner glass, lighter wheel rims, non-EMT tires, reduced sound proofing, fixed rear radio aerial, and a lighter battery. Starting with the 2002 model year, the LS6 engine was uprated to 405 horsepower (302 kW) by means of a larger volume air intake, stiffer valve springs, lighter sodium filled valves, more aggressive cam phasing and lift, revised pistons, and revised block. While Chevrolet officially claimed that the ultimate power output of the LS6 was 405 horsepower (302 kW), many dynamometer tests have shown that Chevrolet underrated the engine by 20 hp (15 kW), giving it an actual total of 425 horsepower (317 kW).[2]"

^^ Lots of major changes from base C5 to Z06.

 

[AdamK47]

Originally posted by: mariok2006
According to Sport Auto Magazine, the base C5 targa went around the 'ring in 8:18 while a z4 3.0 coupe did it in 8:32. Granted the weather/conditions of the track play a factor, but either way, it's not even a contest... You should NEVER EVER take anything on Top gear seriously. It will keep you from embarrassing yourself in the future.

But isn't Top Gear the end all be all final word in automotive evaluation? This coupled with first hand experience of the cars in Grand Turismo can make an expert out of anyone.

 

[dawheat]

Originally posted by: TechBoyJK

Oh, I understand that completely. The vette does a 1/4 almost 1.5-2 seconds faster. 0-6 about a second faster. My question completely revolved around stressing the car through a curvy track where blunt force power isn't as valuable (as demonstrated in the top gear vid).

Power matters at like 98% of the tracks out there. A nearby track, Streets of Willow, is the only track in CA that I know where power isn't the most important - but it's basically a mini track with constant turns - even karts race on it.

The Z4M is a completely different beast than the 3.0 - like someone else mentioned, the chassis is reinforced, different suspension, brakes, engine, has a LSD, etc. Using simliar logic, you'd try to extraploate the performance of a base vette from the performance of the ZR1.

The Z06 will stomp the Z4M at every track - times have proven this again and again. There isn't much short of a GT3 that will keep up with a well driven Z06.

However - considering it sounds like neither of you have been to a track, your driving skills and ability to learn quickly would matter more than the cars.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: AdamK47

Originally posted by: mariok2006
According to Sport Auto Magazine, the base C5 targa went around the 'ring in 8:18 while a z4 3.0 coupe did it in 8:32. Granted the weather/conditions of the track play a factor, but either way, it's not even a contest... You should NEVER EVER take anything on Top gear seriously. It will keep you from embarrassing yourself in the future.

But isn't Top Gear the end all be all final word in automotive evaluation? This coupled with first hand experience of the cars in Grand Turismo can make an expert out of anyone.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

All this emphasis on world class track performance, handling, etc. for people who are just average commuters that will never even skid 3 feet in their entire lifetime of driving. People who think they need 1g lateral to make their car superior at right hand turns at an intersection at 7 mph in rush hour traffic, and that somehow makes it better than the car 3 feet behind them with 400 more HP that is getting tired of riding his brakes waiting for you to accelerate to 45.

The only limitation these people demanding superior handling and cornering in their car will ever approach from their cars is straight line acceleration and ground clearance over speed bumps on their way to work.

It's like talking about how the latest quad core CPU dominates the latest game and everything else sucks blah blah blah tomshardware said this anandtech said that, and worry about which one is better and which one to get, while they get neither and sit at home reading email and playing Warcraft on a Celeron.

Get what you like and have fun.

 

[RichieZ]

nit pick: 3.0si is the fastest non M Z4 you can buy. the 05 and older 3.0i is the engine from the E46, 06+ 3.0si is the newer one from the E90. Higher peak HP and smoother/flatter torque curve.