2 Questions about the Democratic Convention coverage

[Muse]

True. In 2016 a lot of people voted for Trump just as an anti-Hillary. I think deep down they knew what kind of person he was, but thought maybe that would be tempered somewhat if he became president. Instead, he is worse than anyone could possibly imagine, even disregarding the terrible handling of the pandemic.

OTOH, a significant number of people still think he is a wonderful president (my son, who I dont think is a racist, and is not unintelligent, thinks, seriously, he is the best President ever), and he has strong support from the evangelicals, gun nuts, and those who believe the "fake news" claims of any criticism of Trump.

The Dems have no room to become complacent, have to remain united, and must attack Trump relentlessly on his record and failed promises.

Edit: I particularly liked Sanders' comments at the convention, in regards to the most important thing being to unite and defeat Trump, then to work out differences among the various wings of the party.

This thing with people thinking Trump is the greatest president ever points to the schizophrenic culture in America. To believe that is to be monumentally deluded, be out of touch with reality. You say your son is not unintelligent. Well, he may be functional on levels that keep him off the streets, out of prison and out of the nuthouse, but that doesn't mean he has a grip on reality.

 

[eelw]

But why didn’t those women behind Trumpity Dumpity when he bashed Michelle Obama during the Women’s voting conference and just walk out during his ranting.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

First one in my adult life I have never watched at all or been interested in reading about. I saw Michelle’s speech was highly rated but I simply bumbled into that.
Only thing that is important to me is to defeat the unqualified criminal president we currently have.

 

[ondma]

This thing with people thinking Trump is the greatest president ever points to the schizophrenic culture in America. To believe that is to be monumentally deluded, be out of touch with reality. You say your son is not unintelligent. Well, he may be functional on levels that keep him off the streets, out of prison and out of the nuthouse, but that doesn't mean he has a grip on reality.

What an insult to someone you have never even met. Seems like the kind of unwarranted disdain for a particular group of people we see every day from our Dear Leader.
That said, he is a retired marine and a supervisor for the Minnesota Department of Transportation, so yes, I think that proves he *does* have sufficient intelligence and social skills to keep him "off the streets, and out of prison and the nuthouse".

 

[UNCjigga]

First one in my adult life I have never watched at all or been interested in reading about. I saw Michelle’s speech was highly rated but I simply bumbled into that.
Only thing that is important to me is to defeat the unqualified criminal president we currently have.

I’ll let you know if the virtual Zoom audience starts chanting, “LOCK HIM UP!!”

 

[Muse]

What an insult to someone you have never even met. Seems like the kind of unwarranted disdain for a particular group of people we see every day from our Dear Leader.
That said, he is a retired marine and a supervisor for the Minnesota Department of Transportation, so yes, I think that proves he *does* have sufficient intelligence and social skills to keep him "off the streets, and out of prison and the nuthouse".

Dude, I stand by my remark. Anyone who thinks that the POTUS at present is the greatest ever is semi-intelligent at best and not of really sound mind. I didn't express disdain for this person I've never met but I am confident he's not fully sane.

 

[K1052]

OTOH, a significant number of people still think he is a wonderful president (my son, who I dont think is a racist, and is not unintelligent, thinks, seriously, he is the best President ever), and he has strong support from the evangelicals, gun nuts, and those who believe the "fake news" claims of any criticism of Trump.

It is indisputable that he is, culturally and tribally, a good fit for a chunk of the country. Also people tend to buy into cults of personality that circumvent good judgement. This is by no means unique to Trump.

The Dems have no room to become complacent, have to remain united, and must attack Trump relentlessly on his record and failed promises.

The Dems are as nervous as a cat on amphetamines locked in a rocking chair factory's test lab. I'm not finding a lot of complacency.

Edit: I particularly liked Sanders' comments at the convention, in regards to the most important thing being to unite and defeat Trump, then to work out differences among the various wings of the party.

Sanders was also guilty of the assumption that Clinton would win in 16. Unlike the president some people do learn from their mistakes as his current absolute and unequivocal support makes clear. Getting the party into power is job one.

 

[Fenixgoon]

What an insult to someone you have never even met. Seems like the kind of unwarranted disdain for a particular group of people we see every day from our Dear Leader.
That said, he is a retired marine and a supervisor for the Minnesota Department of Transportation, so yes, I think that proves he *does* have sufficient intelligence and social skills to keep him "off the streets, and out of prison and the nuthouse".

I have a co-worker who's in his 70s and a trump fanatic. He has posted on Facebook that Trump is the greatest president in his lifetime. I ultimately had to block him because of all the ugly stuff he would post.

Why he supports Trump I don't actually know. He's a Vietnam vet, yet Trump dumps all over the military. So that's clearly not why.

Maybe it's "law and order", yet Trump consistently breaks the law.
Maybe "MAGA" really does speak to him, and yet we've destroyed relationships with allies that have been forged over decades of cooperation and humiliated ourselves on the world stage.

But I have neither the desire nor the heart to have that conversation, because nothing good will come of it. It would be an exercise in frustration and futility.

 

[Jhhnn]

Heh - good to see the establishment still has everything in order for Democrats - even though just thinking for 10 seconds will make you realize that the entire reason Trump was elected was because Americans are fucking tired of the establishment.

And fell victims to the greatest con artist this country has ever produced. I figure a lot of people have wised up in the meanwhile.

 

[Muse]

But I have neither the desire nor the heart to have that conversation, because nothing good will come of it. It would be an exercise in frustration and futility.

I will once again quote my favorite one liner seer, William Blake:

"He who doubts from what he sees will never believe do what you please."

 

[fskimospy]

What an insult to someone you have never even met. Seems like the kind of unwarranted disdain for a particular group of people we see every day from our Dear Leader.
That said, he is a retired marine and a supervisor for the Minnesota Department of Transportation, so yes, I think that proves he *does* have sufficient intelligence and social skills to keep him "off the streets, and out of prison and the nuthouse".

You’re right it’s not about intelligence, it’s about getting caught up in a personality cult. I know several Trump supporters in PA who are perfectly smart people and they believe some of the dumbest things imaginable. They have brains, they just elect not to use them.

I do have to say the extent to which people are willing to humiliate themselves by believing transparent lies is bigger than I would have thought going into this.

Like today, Trump said he’s rated more highly than Obama was for handling H1N1, as per Gallup. Anyone can go look at the polls he mentions and see he’s obviously lying, but I bet lots of his supporters will start believing that today.

 

[Muse]

s0me0nesmind1 said:
Heh - good to see the establishment still has everything in order for Democrats - even though just thinking for 10 seconds will make you realize that the entire reason Trump was elected was because Americans are fucking tired of the establishment.
- - -
But Trump is the establishment on steroids. Make the rich richer, play golf while Babylon is burning, he's the poster boy for corruption, you could fill pages for the things he does that are perfect examples of the worst things politicians do. He's a terrible administrator of anything so he's become the quintessential politician with no capacity to lead. He's obsessed with the polls and winning, has no interest in studying or educating himself, watches TV instead (only that which deals with himself specifically), tries to think of things he can tweet, actions he can take within the web he has spun to influence the part of the populace who might respond to those actions, playing on their selfish motives. If that isn't the establishment, WTH is?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Bill is speaking tonight!
Maybe I’ll check in.

 

[ewdotson]

Dude, I stand by my remark. Anyone who thinks that the POTUS at present is the greatest ever is semi-intelligent at best and not of really sound mind. I didn't express disdain for this person I've never met but I am confident he's not fully sane.

It all comes down to the epistemic crisis that the country is going through. I don't think it's truly a matter of intelligence. And while I agree that the diehard Trump supporters don't have the best grip on reality, I don't think it's a matter of mental illness either. They have, however, been fed a steady diet of unreality to the point where they fundamentally disagree on what reality *is*. It's less stupidity than GIGO though.

This is, of course, strictly my own extremely subjective impressions.

 

[Muse]

It all comes down to the epistemic crisis that the country is going through. I don't think it's truly a matter of intelligence. And while I agree that the diehard Trump supporters don't have the best grip on reality, I don't think it's a matter of mental illness either. They have, however, been fed a steady diet of unreality to the point where they fundamentally disagree on what reality *is*. It's less stupidity than GIGO though.

This is, of course, strictly my own extremely subjective impressions.

I suppose you may be thinking of Fox News, which I've never watched. For one thing I don't have subscription TV so I don't think I could watch it if I wanted to. I'm told that Sinclair owned media is similarly responsible for ________________________________________________________ political coverage (obscene content deleted).

Concerning GIGO, I pretty much try to NOT read any DJT tweets, it's like the squirrels in my yard (same with videos of the varmint). They seem smarter than your average DJT supporter. I spray my pumpkins with pepper solution. They get one taste and leave my pumpkins alone. I may do a total pass on the RNC. I don't see how I could stand it. It wouldn't be good for my blood pressure. I do not have BP problems, but do notice when I'm aggravated, annoyed, angry, and Republicans are mostly really good at making me feel that way, and I prefer not to feel those things. Michelle touched me last night, it got better and better. I'm certain there's no one who's going to present at the RNC who will do anything that begins to compare with what she did last night at the DNC. She was eloquent and right on point. Just the opposite of what I've been hearing and seeing from Republicans.

- - - -
The dog starving at his master's gate predicts the ruin of the state. - William Blake

77 days until the big one! Vote... vote early, vote Democratic!

 

[fskimospy]

It all comes down to the epistemic crisis that the country is going through. I don't think it's truly a matter of intelligence. And while I agree that the diehard Trump supporters don't have the best grip on reality, I don't think it's a matter of mental illness either. They have, however, been fed a steady diet of unreality to the point where they fundamentally disagree on what reality *is*. It's less stupidity than GIGO though.

This is, of course, strictly my own extremely subjective impressions.

I think this is true to some extent but we shouldn’t minimize their own agency. They CHOOSE to believe ridiculous lies because it makes them feel better. They are not victims, they are participants.

And yes, this makes them bad people by and large, at least in this way. I know plenty of them that are otherwise good sons, mothers, fathers, whatever and I’ve seen it myself for my whole life. Doesn’t change the fact that by supporting Trump they are committing a gravely immoral act and they should be held accountable.

 

[ondma]

Bill is speaking tonight!
Maybe I’ll check in.

I thought Bill was a very good president, and dont really care about his foibles while he was in office. Many other presidents were also philanderers and just never got maneuvered into lying about it under oath.
That said, I think both of the Clintons should just fade into the background now. I watched Bill's speech at John Lewis's funeral, and he just seemed to ramble, and honestly, it was uncomfortable to watch someone who was once a great speaker seem so unfocused.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

s0me0nesmind1 said:
Heh - good to see the establishment still has everything in order for Democrats - even though just thinking for 10 seconds will make you realize that the entire reason Trump was elected was because Americans are fucking tired of the establishment.
- - -
But Trump is the establishment on steroids. Make the rich richer, play golf while Babylon is burning, he's the poster boy for corruption, you could fill pages for the things he does that are perfect examples of the worst things politicians do. He's a terrible administrator of anything so he's become the quintessential politician with no capacity to lead. He's obsessed with the polls and winning, has no interest in studying or educating himself, watches TV instead (only that which deals with himself specifically), tries to think of things he can tweet, actions he can take within the web he has spun to influence the part of the populace who might respond to those actions, playing on their selfish motives. If that isn't the establishment, WTH is?

I completely agree - I never said he wasn't a part of the establishment.

The difference is that he was elected under the original prospect that he wasn't the establishment. Because he obviously had zero political experience. He full on joined it and put the standard cronies into the positions though, you're not going to see me deny that.

I still think it's a good reflection that people are still sick and fucking tired of the establishment - which is clearly what will happen if Biden is elected.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I thought Bill was a very good president, and dont really care about his foibles while he was in office. Many other presidents were also philanderers and just never got maneuvered into lying about it under oath.
That said, I think both of the Clintons should just fade into the background now. I watched Bill's speech at John Lewis's funeral, and he just seemed to ramble, and honestly, it was uncomfortable to watch someone who was once a great speaker seem so unfocused.

Didn’t see that however as of now I feel Bill was the best President in my lifetime.
Shit just worked good.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I completely agree - I never said he wasn't a part of the establishment.

The difference is that he was elected under the original prospect that he wasn't the establishment. Because he obviously had zero political experience. He full on joined it and put the standard cronies into the positions though, you're not going to see me deny that.

I still think it's a good reflection that people are still sick and fucking tired of the establishment - which is clearly what will happen if Biden is elected.

You're never going to see a true outsider become president, without dramatic reform in how our election works. The closest you'll see is a social outsider like Obama (young, black) or a sideshow like Trump.

To claim that we all had this coming because 'the people don't want establishment' is just sloppy.

 

[hal2kilo]

The funny thing is that you could have taken Joe Biden's name out of that speech and replaced it with any of the Democratic front-runners and 99% of it would have still applied.

It looks like the Democrats are doubling down on the "Trump is Evil, vote Democrat or suffer!" rhetoric, without trying to convince people that Biden is somehow better. Sorry, but saying "I know Joe Biden, and he's a nice guy!" isn't going to cut it.

This tactic is going to make the Republican rebuttal pretty easy. Just make Joe Biden look just as Evil as Trump (it won't be hard, he has plenty of skeletons in his closet), and you'll have millions of disillusioned voters staying home just like they did in 2016.

This was day one. All subjects are not required to be covered per your requests.

 

[ch33zw1z]

This was day one. All subjects are not required to be covered per your requests.

It's quite the standard the D's are held to compared to who R's elect.

 

[feralkid]

nm.

 

[shortylickens]

If you cant think critically then no, you are not intelligent. Not really. Not intelligent like a 21st century adult should be.
Dumb teenagers can regurgitate crap they here, repeat the absolutely horrible logic and lies needed to keep a dictator in power, but that requires the opposite of critical thinking skills. It requires blind belief.
And if you are really good at the bullshit, if you cherry pick the bad logic you use in your arguments, you can SEEM incredibly intelligent to people who dont know any better. And those people are banking on that assumption.
People like Dinesh D'Souza and Rupert Murdoch. The guys who are pushing an agenda they clearly dont believe in because its so obviously bullshit. NOT Alex Jones and Rush Limbaugh. Those are true believers. They are not smart. They are loud, and they are excellent regugitators.

 

[Muse]

I still think it's a good reflection that people are still sick and fucking tired of the establishment - which is clearly what will happen if Biden is elected.

That's not clear to me at all. Biden's a man of integrity and he's not going to appoint people for personal reasons, which is all Trump does. He feels, has a conscience, understands others' suffering, can and will be moved and convinced by others. He's not the bucking bronco that Trump is when something isn't going just like he thinks it should.
- - - -
The dog starving at his master's gate predicts the ruin of the state. - William Blake

77 days until the big one! Vote... vote early, vote Democratic!